Boards›Gameplay

Cho'Gath damage nerfs

Shroom Junkie··3 votes·1,066 views

Cho'Gath is a CC tank. Nobody can deny that. He is a natural tank with his ultimate stacking and CC, but he really just doesn't seem like one. He does so much damage and CC, and is naturally tanky, its like he's just impossible to deal with. Even has a heck load of range with that E, W, and Q, and crazy sustain with his passive.

Anyway, I have no problem with that. Any of it. Except the damage part. Cho'Gath is a CC tank, not an assassin. Why does he have a 100% AP ratio, one second knockup and 1.5 second slow? Why does he have a 1.5-2.5 second silence with a 70% AP ratio? I mean, seriously, it isn't balanced at all. He even has a built-in smite that, if its used to last hit, has a lower cooldown than smite(minus having stacks of Smite), and it naturally makes him tanky even if he doesn't build any health. So, tons of AP, tons of tankiness, tons of damage, bunch of range, bunch of CC, and it just makes no sense.

Built in smite? I'm fine. CC? Cool. Natural tankiness? Whatevs. Damage? Hell no.

I'm sorry if I'm just taken as some low elo hater here, but I just find Cho'Gath isn't balanced at all. He has a larger kit than Ekko. His only weakness is mobility, and it really doesn't matter when you can just CC someone down to stop a chase(granted they can't dash/spellshield out of it).

27 Comments

3TWarrior2 votes

he's perfectly fine...any mobile champ can hit him hard and champs like amumu are hard counters. His ranged attacks are also on a delayed animation

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

he's perfectly fine...any mobile champ can hit him hard and champs like amumu are hard counters. His ranged attacks are also on a delayed animation

So, you're saying that to beat Cho'Gath, you should have to be in a certain champion pool or otherwise not be able to beat Cho'Gath, ever? You're saying now that Cho'Gath hard counters everyone except his hard counters which is only helping my case.

3TWarrior1 votes

so you're saying that your team has no ADC...has no short cooldown mage...has no crowd control...and has no one capable of out sustaining a tank? a team like that has less than a 10% chance of winning

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

You do realize having a ranged attack or a mobility spell covers close to 90% of the hero pool right? Sit down for a second and name every melee champion who does not have a mobility spell. I can name 4 (mordekaiser, taric, nasus, and cho'gath himself) with a few more melee champions with very limited mobility. That leaves around 10-15% of the hero pool who cho'gath hard counters and 85-90% of the hero pool who counters him.

So you're saying anyone who has mobility can beat him? ahahaha because many champions have tons of both CC and damage combined Rammus ok

Cancer Dancer1 votes

To be real, my issue isn't even with his ult scaling/damage in general, its his passive. After like level 4-5 when he starts getting 30-40 health per minion kill he's super hard to bully away. Not including his natural regen/pots/catalyst even if he only last hits 4 of the 6 minions in a wave he's getting 80 HP back at level 1 and it only gets higher from there.

3TWarrior1 votes

his hp regen at level 1 is 13 hp I believe and 1 mana...by like levle 13 it scales up to 43 and 10

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancer Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrEAXQdt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-05-31T02:51:46.346+0000)

To be real, my issue isn't even with his ult scaling/damage in general, its his passive. After like level 4-5 when he starts getting 30-40 health per minion kill he's super hard to bully away. Not including his natural regen/pots/catalyst even if he only last hits 4 of the 6 minions in a wave he's getting 80 HP back at level 1 and it only gets higher from there.

Yeah, I get that. But my main problem with him is just the fact he's so unbalanced. CC, damage, AOE, even a freakin' smite. I'm not even talking about like, this ability CC's, this ability damages, and this ability does less damage but in an AOE. Its like, this ability is an AOE CC and damage ability, this ability is an AOE CC and damage ability, and this is a free passive AOE and damage ability. Oh yeah and he gets an ult bigger than smite so that helps right?

Critmaster Garen1 votes

put half a second delay on feast. thats all he needs imo.

his instant flash + feast is cheesy as hell and doesnt give you time to react even if you see it coming. but otherwise he seems fine right now. as far as i can see, most point and click nukes (even the ones in melee) have a short animation these days. it just seems like an oversight that his ult damage still hits instantly.

you should have a small chance to cram something like a nasus ult, a shield or a heal in before it hits. (at least if you have fast reflexes).

even darius and garens ults have animations like that. chos ult is on a much shorter cooldown, and even has an indicator. so possibly missing one because his opponent reacted wouldnt even hurt him that much.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrEAXQdt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-05-31T06:42:39.137+0000)

put half a second delay on feast. thats all he needs imo.

He does have that. He has a half second delay on feast already.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

He does have that. He has a half second delay on feast already.

then there seems to be a bug. because im pretty sure a lot of the time the damage is instantanous either without an animation, or it hits before the animation is finished.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrEAXQdt,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-31T14:42:22.437+0000)

then there seems to be a bug. because im pretty sure a lot of the time the damage is instantanous either without an animation, or it hits before the animation is finished.

Well, I've always noticed it. Maybe its just one of our imaginations though(either being the half second delay, or there not being one), and my info might just be wrong. But if you look at the ability stats for Feast here it says, "After .5 seconds, Cho'Gath devours an enemy unit," but I didn't find it on the League of Legends wiki, so I'm not quite sure if its true. Though it seems like it is, as whenever I play Cho'Gath it tends to wait a split second before it actually does any damage and shows the blood effect.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Well, I've always noticed it. Maybe its just one of our imaginations though(either being the half second delay, or there not being one), and my info might just be wrong. But if you look at the ability stats for Feast here it says, "After .5 seconds, Cho'Gath devours an enemy unit," but I didn't find it on the League of Legends wiki, so I'm not quite sure if its true. Though it seems like it is, as whenever I play Cho'Gath it tends to wait a split second before it actually does any damage and shows the blood effect.

i remember a recent instance, where i anticipated a dive by cho on nasus. i specifically waited for him to dive to bait him into a bad engage, since i had my own ult ready and we were both pretty low on health.

flash/feast hit instantly instead of with a delay. it didnt give me time to react. maybe its some sort of interaction with the flash animation. but i had my finger ready on the r, waiting for him to flash, and he definitely hit me without an animation. otherwise half a second would have been enough time. i should at least have seen the animation, even if i reacted too late. but it looked more like a leblanc w. both, the flash animation and the ult damage triggered at the same time.

my ping averages around 35ms by the way. so that wasnt it either.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrEAXQdt,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-31T15:41:18.322+0000)

i remember a recent instance, where i anticipated a dive by cho on nasus. i specifically waited for him to dive to bait him into a bad engage, since i had my own ult ready and we were both pretty low on health.

flash/feast hit instantly instead of with a delay. it didnt give me time to react. maybe its some sort of interaction with the flash animation. but i had my finger ready on the r, waiting for him to flash, and he definitely hit me without an animation. otherwise half a second would have been enough time. i should at least have seen the animation, even if i reacted too late. but it looked more like a leblanc w. both, the flash animation and the ult damage triggered at the same time.

my ping averages around 35ms by the way. so that wasnt it either.

Hmm. I don't know. Maybe it is a bug, or maybe my info is just wrong....

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Hmm. I don't know. Maybe it is a bug, or maybe my info is just wrong....

the thing is, i remember seing an ult animation on cho before. he leans in, when he ults. but im not sure right now, if the damage still hits first, if it ALWAYS hits first and sometimes after the dealy because its buggy, or because its a bug thats caused by 2 overlapping abilities. he might have hovered over my characer, hit r and then flashed in range while ult was qued up. so it could be a weird interaction, where the flash animation sort of overrides the ult animation instead of playing them in sequence. and since the flash animation is instant, the ult damage hit at the same time he flashed on me.

probably something that has to be tested. i mean this sort of bug is nothing new in this game. there has been worse (sion using the enemies ad value for the scaling on his ult instead of his own, lmao). and if it is a bug, its a sneaky one, so it might be possible that it existed for a long time.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

How long ago was this? If it was before patch 5.9, the Nasus and Renekton had a 0.25s delay between when they activated their ultimates and when they received the bonus health. It's possible that you died during that delay.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

How long ago was this? If it was before patch 5.9, the Nasus and Renekton had a 0.25s delay between when they activated their ultimates and when they received the bonus health. It's possible that you died during that delay.

it was before that patch, and i remember. but it doesnt have anything to do with how chos ult worked in that moment.

the problem is, that i didnt even get time to hit the button. even if the health would have come too late, or if i reacted too late, i still should have seen the feast animation if it was there. but the only thing i saw was the flash animation instantly followed by a gray screen.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

He has really old AP ratios on his skills, definitely.

Back in the early days, those kinds of ratios were a lot more common, as you can also see with Anivia's Q/E or pre-nerf Kayle's Q (which had 1.0 AP, too).

SexyTaylorSwift1 votes

Yea, I think he needs some nerfs to be honest. Not sure what, just something. To say his kit is more loaded than Ekko's is just dumb, though.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

Yea, I think he needs some nerfs to be honest. Not sure what, just something. To say his kit is more loaded than Ekko's is just dumb, though.

Eh, maybe. They seem kinda inbetween and I think the main factor that makes Ekko stronger is his ability to towerdive better than Tryndamere, and that AOE that basically deals as much damage as Cho'Gath's ult(including the reduction from mr) only... y'know... AOE. And maybe the mobility.

SexyTaylorSwift1 votes

The problem that I have with Ekko is that he has 3 slows, %health damage, a shield, a heal, 5 damaging abilites, and a stun...while still having more damage in his kit than Veigar does. Wut.

Lugg1 votes

I think nerfing the length of his silence would be just as important.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

Cho isn't a natural tank. Cho is a natural melee mage who gets some defense stats for being an immobile melee champion.

Cho is in fact a natural tank. His ultimate allows him to be. 600 health just with that not including his base stats is just, ugh. And the 100% AP ratio. Seriously, you're saying because he can't move very well he's basically dead meat. Lol, nah, he can CC, damage you, and yeah. Mobility don't matter when he can stop you from moving anyway.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Shroom Junkie

What the hell is this Riot?
Story, Art, & Sound136 comments
245
votes
Taric's gonna be so freelo after his rework
Memes & Games32 comments
242
votes
So I was looking at Zac's wiki page, and I noticed something... strange...
Memes & Games73 comments
242
votes
Ward upgrade isn't worth it...
Gameplay95 comments
194
votes
My mom walked by and looked at my computer screen as I logged in...
Memes & Games45 comments
183
votes
Totally Appropriate
Memes & Games49 comments
137
votes