and 
immediately come to mind as champs that will be EXTREMELY gimped by not having mana potions in the game anymore. I was getting really excited for these changes until I hit that line...
With mana potions being removed, some champs are gonna need reduced mana costs in the same patch on some moves. Seriously...let's not make THAT mistake...you know...that one that we can see coming from a mile (or a month) away...
Guy Fox Teemo8 votesDid you even bother to read the post? They said they were going to BUFF, champions that relied heavily on mana potions. Probably to both their base and actual regen. Please read before ranting.
Neo Cyrus8 votesYeah, no, they said they'd fix mana issues after they gutted mana regen at the start of the season. The only thing they did during the season was move the 3 mana regen mastery out of 9 point range on the tree to further gimp mages. 3 matters a lot when 6 is all you get. The season's over and to compensate for mages being mana starved and relying completely on mana pots they've decided to remove mana pots and give the same promise as last time.
I got through the season building 2-3 Doran's Rings, as suggested by every single high Elo mid laner I asked, along with buying mana pots on every back. Facing a manaless AD mid however destroyed any reasonable build path and made lane an auto-loss due to being forced into spending 3000/3300 on Zhonya's.
Edit: Oh god a Zed/Yasuo main. That explains everything. As soon as some ban slots are open your champs will be perma banned. Bet on it. You won't be so happy then.
Guy Fox Teemo1 votesSorry you had to switch your playstyle? To actually CONSERVE mana instead of just spamming your skills with chalice.
Either way they said they are going to compensate the Users that heavily relied on it a few weeks into the changes. To really see who needed it. Not my fault if you don't trust them.
Neo Cyrus8 votes"Conserve mana" AKA "Do nothing while you slowly lose lane because I'm Zed lol". Switch playstyle LOL, that's so troll, that's like Zed being nerfed so that he can't use any skills, and has to build a 3000-3300 gold item to survive, and I tell you "Sorry you have to switch your playstyle".
I'd like to see any Zed main reach their current rank playing mages.
Guy Fox Teemo1 votesZed's good at winning lane then?
Nobody said either you had to do nothing, you HAVE mana, (Which is also going to be BUFFED). Please stop complaining about something you haven't even TESTED.
Neo Cyrus4 votesYou keep saying that as if it's going to happen for real. Then when mana on one champ is buffed by some negligible amount that equates to a single spell cast late game at best (see Syndra) when it no longer matters, then you'll be one of those saying "See guys they did it". Okay.
Just don't complain when everyone has their pitchforks out asking for Zed/Yasuo to be nerfed as they should have been long ago.
Guy Fox Teemo1 votesSorry you have grudges against Riot for a change that happened a year ago. (That according the them was a good change, who are you to argue against Riot?) if they say they are going to compensate they will, if it turns out they don't need too in the end, they won't (I don't use mana pots even with mana hungry spammers like Lux and I still do fine)
Neo Cyrus6 voteshttp://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=DarkSoul245
Yeah, lots of Lux ranked games in there. Oh wait you exclusively play Zed and Yasuo, my bad.
Shac Norris3 votesThey're probably going to forget some 
champions 
cough 
like they always do when doing patches like that.
Craft Zeppelin2 votesOf all the supports you say damned lux needs compensation? Not only she lacks the utility to be a qualified support she is gold reliant meaning buying banner or zekes is worth less. and is it just me that most lux supports lack the idea of actually peeling or providing room for their adc?
chipndip12 votes[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FmNtQViE,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-10-29T02:10:13.076+0000)
Of all the supports you say damned lux needs compensation? Not only she lacks the utility to be a qualified support she is gold reliant meaning buying banner or zekes is worth less. and is it just me that most lux supports lack the idea of actually peeling or providing room for their adc?
Uh...I meant mana-dependent champs in general...not just supports. Just because I main Sona and Sona's mentioned doesn't mean I'm focused on just supporting...
Besides, technically, she's a mage/support, but that isn't even the point.
IcyPepper1 votesThey're going to rebalance for sure, they can't just remove mana potions without compensation.
Make sure to read the entire post, please. This is how misinformation spreads.
disregardable1 votesAlong with what the other guys said, I feel like Sona and Lux benefit less from mpots than champions with low mana costs.
chipndip12 votes[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FmNtQViE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-29T00:58:13.898+0000)
Along with what the other guys said, I feel like Sona and Lux benefit less from mpots than champions with low mana costs.
Except that's entirely NOT true. Champs that go oom need mana help. If I'm playing Karma mid/sup, I don't even need to think on mana unless I'm not even aiming anymore. If I get Morello's, I don't even need to think on mana anymore, period. Someone that actually runs a decent risk of going oom with their spell costs are going to need mana just to make sure their backing patterns don't keep them out of lane all the time. Champs with negligible spell costs won't need mana pots to keep in lane.
disregardable1 votesChamps with high spell costs also aren't going to get a whole lot from +100 mana. It's literally one Q. It's not even worth the gold.
chipndip12 votes[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FmNtQViE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-10-29T02:45:29.138+0000)
Champs with high spell costs also aren't going to get a whole lot from +100 mana. It's literally one Q. It's not even worth the gold.
Except one spell may mean the difference between a kill/save and a lost kill/death. Someone with low mana costs doesn't freaking need a potion because, with proper pacing, they won't go oom until they'd want to go back to fountain anyway. Someone with HIGH mana costs is going to need the potion(s) because certain parts of their kit they might need to harass/cs/whatever properly will be extremely expensive, and a potion makes it so you can at least stay in lane a decent bit longer so you don't fall behind.
Edit: Probs tired when I typed this, but I meant high mana COSTS...
A Wild AP Sona1 votes[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FmNtQViE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-10-29T02:45:29.138+0000)
Champs with high spell costs also aren't going to get a whole lot from +100 mana. It's literally one Q. It's not even worth the gold.
please be quiet you ahve no clue what your talking about I buy 3-4 mana pots per trip to fountain with lux and I still have mana issues
if you go oom on lux you have to leave lane because its no longer possible to farm vs certain champs
chipndip11 votesplease be quiet you ahve no clue what your talking about I buy 3-4 mana pots per trip to fountain with lux and I still have mana issues
if you go oom on lux you have to leave lane because its no longer possible to farm vs certain champs
Yo. I've was trying to find out where the hell you went after all this time. Why did you change your name to something that's extremely difficult to memorize!? -_-
Anywho, I already hit my ranked goal this season so...damn...>_>
Totalwanabe1 voteslearn to buy faerie charm and rush chalice or tear, mana issue solved permanently
BakedLotion2 voteslearn to buy faerie charm and rush chalice or tear, mana issue solved permanently
lol buying a faerie charm is like asking to lose lane. and it STILL doesn't give as much mana sustain as a dorans l0l. Even if you buy two.
eaglei31 votesIs that opinion for support Lux or something? Mid Lux is not that bad off when she starts with a Doran's ring.
7ha7guy7771 votesThey're also changing/adding starting items so maybe they'll have something that gives mana or mana regen.
Hopeslayer1 votesremoved the mana refund on gangplank just in time guess they want him at 0% pick rate again
Kouga1 votes"By removing mana pots, we can better balance champion ability costs with the mana regeneration stat while also streamlining the ‘sustain game’ of League.
They're just to balance mana stats around the lack of pots. Calm down and read before you speak.
A Wild AP Sona1 votesThey're just to balance mana stats around the lack of pots. Calm down and read before you speak.
it doesnt matter
there is 100% no way that it will give as much mana as being able to chug pots will unless its a permanent blue buff or you start game with athenes
this will make lux unplayable trash unless they greatly reduce her mana cost on her e lux is unplayable in real elo where junglers know how to camp/dive and sometimes you are forced to farm almost solely with e
I had to buy 5 mana potions in 1 back vs a d1 duo today
Kouga1 votesit doesnt matter
there is 100% no way that it will give as much mana as being able to chug pots will unless its a permanent blue buff or you start game with athenes
this will make lux unplayable trash unless they greatly reduce her mana cost on her e lux is unplayable in real elo where junglers know how to camp/dive and sometimes you are forced to farm almost solely with e
Yes, it does matter. Context always matters.
That's part of the point anyway - certain Champions like Lux (who, late game, has a ton of power with her low CD ult and ranged damage) is meant to be mana-gated early on. If chugging pots allows you to circumvent her mana-gating, that is a problem, not a solution. On the other hand, if they are so harshly gated that they need to chug pots just to have a viable laning phase, that is equally a problem. That is their second point: other Champs with different mana costs/cds/regen stats may be getting way more out of pots than those who desperately need them, making them way more efficient for some.
For example, at level 3 with 1 point in all abilities, Lux's rotation costs her 180 mana. That's almost two pots just by itself. Compare that with Vel'Koz, who is meant to spam early game. His rotation (all of which deal damage), only costs 140. Syndra's is 150. So she has one of the more costly skill rotations, and that's just with the 1-point mana costs.
Right now, 1 pot (100 mana) is more efficient for Syndra than Lux, in terms of basically Casts Per Potion. So what removing them would do is allow them to balance Lux around her own costs and regen, rather than "how high do we have to jack up her mana costs to account for the fact that she can carry 500 mana around with her?"
So no, maybe it won't give as much as chugging pots constantly, but instead they can look at it as "What is a good mana amount for Lux to be able to have a healthy laning phase?" and they can balance those numbers much easier.
A Wild AP Sona1 votesI had to buy 5 mana potions in 1 back vs a d1 duo today
- If you're farming with your E, you're doing it wrong.
yeah im sorry bro just let me tell the high elo players with prefect judgement to not tower dive my 1000 hp champion that dies in 3 hits with their point and click ult wombo if I ask nicely in all chat they wont dive me right?
why not just afk at fountain and make things easier?
its not a matter of convenience lux NEEDS mana potions vs people like zed/yasuo/fizz in real elo post 6 because how easy she is to tower dive with ults even at 4-5 she needs 2-3 mana pots per trip to be able to harass
unlike the low elo sand box playground where people play maplestory the first 30 minutes of league then finally start fighting when they realize there is an enemy team on the map in high elo people people are actively looking for ways to dive you with flash including flashing over walls and shit
it doesnt even matter if you have full hp they will still tower dive your ass 70-80% of my deaths come from some brutal tower dive (usually jungler gank)
and yes I rush upgraded trinket @ 9 and always have one of my bushs pinked
so being out of position for 0.1 second is lethal this results in a shit ton of e spamming
NO one any kind of decent at this game d3+ gonna let a lux fucking free farm with 50 damage AA and not zone/harass her hard
lol @ correcting my lux mechanics seriously get over yourself I average over 5 kills per 1 death with 11.4:1 KDA
[{quoted}](name=Cyb3rpunk Panda,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FmNtQViE,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-10-29T06:25:47.294+0000)
You see, I actually don't know what you are talking about. Mana pots are not necessary in the slightest. They're just tools that happen to be very useful, not mandatory items that are needed to win lane. Play a champion that uses a lot of mana for abilities? Maybe, just maybe, just a thought, might want to consider this... don't use abilities as much.
sorry bub
see post above
Kouga1 votesWhen you respond to a counter argument with "but my KDA", you've officially stopped having a constructive discussion.
A Wild AP Sona1 votesWhen you respond to a counter argument with "but my KDA", you've officially stopped having a constructive discussion.
lol @ getting butthurt when I only mentioned my kda at the bottom of my page long post
go back and read it and try again it will never work for lux in high elo games where people know how to dive/punish her squishyness
her range is her only safeness her range also requires a shit ton of mana
riot will just use their retarded logic and give her something like 50 more mana and call it a day
Kouga1 voteslol @ getting butthurt when I only mentioned my kda at the bottom of my page long post
go back and read it and try again
I read the whole thing, as painful as it was to do so. I was explaining the logic behind their idea, how it affects their ability to balance mana costs & regen on a case-by-case basis without factoring in 100 mana per pot. I'm talking about the fundamental tools this will take away or provide.
In response you mentioned: elo levels, Lux's squishiness, dives my QQOP mid champs, trinkets (when did I say anything about trinkets? How do trinkets make any difference to the discussion about mana costs?) and then defending your lack of an argument with "but my KDA"
Nothing in your post actually responded to the discussion at hand. You're complaining about Lux's lack of safety (on a Champ with a snare, slow & shield) or her match ups mid lane. Now, those are perfectly viable issues to discuss. And are completely tangential to the topic of "how will removing mana potions allow Riot to fix/change/buff/nerf mana abilities as a whole"
chipndip11 votesWhen you respond to a counter argument with "but my KDA", you've officially stopped having a constructive discussion.
Aren't you back-talking a Diamond?
What the hell happened to "Diamond: No back-talk"?
Kouga2 votesThe only argument weaker than "My KDA" is "My Elo". Rank doesn't make you Right.
The Sword Saint2 votesThe only argument weaker than "My KDA" is "My Elo". Rank doesn't make you Right.
Now you just sound silly. In the most literal sense, rank doesn't make you right no. But in the practical sense, literally nothing you have to say as a low elo player of a champion is relevant compared to the experience of a higher elo player of the same champion - with the exception of things like "I think this champion is too team reliant to work down here" or "this champ is too hard for low elos to play".
Kouga1 votesI've had this discussion before so I won't get into the longer explanation but in short, it is possible to understand some aspects of mechanics or kit design even if you do not have the skills (or time) to climb the ladder. I am unranked because I have a job and work 60 hours a week, I don't have the time to invest into improving my mechanics and memorizing every balance change. But I've also been playing off and on since LOL was in open beta - I've had the opportunity to see every evolution and every item, meta and jungle change.
Anyway all of that is still irrelevant to my original point: I proposed a counter argument to NrfSona up there and their response boiled down to "but KDA" without actually addressing any of my points. My analysis might be wrong - if I am I'd love to be corrected so that I can continue with better knowledge. But when your only argument is your rank, you've officially lost the argument.
The Sword Saint2 votesI've had this discussion before so I won't get into the longer explanation but in short, it is possible to understand some aspects of mechanics or kit design even if you do not have the skills (or time) to climb the ladder. I am unranked because I have a job and work 60 hours a week, I don't have the time to invest into improving my mechanics and memorizing every balance change. But I've also been playing off and on since LOL was in open beta - I've had the opportunity to see every evolution and every item, meta and jungle change.
Anyway all of that is still irrelevant to my original point: I proposed a counter argument to NrfSona up there and their response boiled down to "but KDA" without actually addressing any of my points. My analysis might be wrong - if I am I'd love to be corrected so that I can continue with better knowledge. But when your only argument is your rank, you've officially lost the argument.
It's more like, the amount of lower elo players who refuse to listen to higher elo players is so large that higher elo players tend to get frustrated, roll their eyes, and cite rank because they find it would be a waste of time and energy to bother explaining things that are going to be dismissed anyway.
If a higher elo player tells you that super hardcore coordinated dives are a thing that is common in their elo and because of this the mana they need to spend to stay safe is higher than at your elo, you don't actually have any ground to stand on in an argument against them because you haven't played enough games at their level to know if what they are saying is accurate or not. The knowledge is a one way streak, he's been where you are in rank but you haven't been where he is in rank - which means only one of you has enough information to make any judgement at all.
No, you don't need to be a mathematician to know that 2+2 is 4, but if a mathematician tells you that 0/0 is 1 or something similar and you try to argue with them on it they will at best be amused and explain until they lose patience with you, or at worse just roll their eyes and pull their academic rank on you to end the conversation.
chipndip11 votesThe only argument weaker than "My KDA" is "My Elo". Rank doesn't make you Right.
Correlation =/= Causation, but correlation IS an indicator of some relation between two things. The odds of you being wrong on this when arguing with a Plat and a Diamond is way higher than it'd be if you were arguing with bronzies.
Akali is SO HOT1 voteslearn to manage your mana
chipndip11 votes[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FmNtQViE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-10-29T05:19:19.439+0000)
learn to manage your mana
I already barely touch W with Sona as is, and I STILL need to prioritize buying mana pots over health pots. It gets to a point where my adcs might start having to remind me (or even straight flame me) to use W on them. I mean, I still won't, because it's meant for reactionary use rather than patchwork, but it goes to show how little I use in regards to how much people expect me to use it.
Reaper Soraka1 votesHow will brand supports harass their enemies out of lane? Their poke will be no more than Sona's! :(
Deadly Quills1 votesYou see, I actually don't know what you are talking about. Mana pots are not necessary in the slightest. They're just tools that happen to be very useful, not mandatory items that are needed to win lane. Play a champion that uses a lot of mana for abilities? Maybe, just maybe, just a thought, might want to consider this... don't use abilities as much.