https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/a/a6/Kindred_OriginalSkin.jpg
Every time I come to think about this champion she's either really strong somehow or she's considered a "troll pick"..
###What are your thoughts on this Champion? In terms of..
boricCentaur13 votesI would like the passive to go back to the old one since to me it was more fun and creative vs the one now. I think balance wise there in a good spot maybe too strong. BY THE WAY KINDRED IS A THERE NOT A SHE.
Hammermancer12 votesBY THE WAY KINDRED IS A THERE NOT A SHE.
kindred is a place? Where?
Summonah123692 voteskindred is a place? Where?
Idk but there are universities named after 
BLIGHTBRINGER2 voteslol, I always forget to type LoL after typing Warwick and I constantly see Universities of Warwick pop up lol
ez mental boom1 voteslol i havent seen anyone bookend their sentences with lol since i stopped using facebook 4 years ago lol
Hammermancer2 votesSame issue when i try to find good sion vs annie footage
I keep googling "big train ran on 8 year old fiery redhead girl" and nothing relevant pops up
Dorans Pants2 voteskindred is a place? Where?
in your heart, obviously
BLIGHTBRINGER1 votesYes I know they are considered 2 individuals as one but I found it easier to word it that way.
boricCentaur11 votesIt was a joke I really dont care but I do like making it.
ez mental boom1 votesYou had two chances to use "they're" or "they" and you didn't take either of them
boricCentaur11 votesIm sorry.
Psyrix3 votesLol, 1) Kindred is a they not she xD even tho gameplay does currently feel very lamb oriented.
I love Kindred’s lore, their concept, art and music and when I’m able to get in the zone with them... however I’m terrible with most adc roles so it isn’t too often 😂. I wish the E was a skillshot. Therefore it’d give Wolf more agency, making it feel more like a “them” rather than lamb.
Balance-wise, currently I'd say strong, but not op. This was my concept of an E rework:
What Kindred needs to solidify their aspect of two entities in one is to give Wolf more agency/more impact. Mounting Dread could be reworked to be a skillshot. Either:
have Wolf lunge out as a projectile, lightly damaging, marking and slowing the enemy, then have the same E system of Lamb attacking twice more to consume the mark, then have Wolf consume the enemy. Maybe have him completely wrap around the enemy for the animation of dealing damage. Tempted to add a blind/nearsight debuff for like 0.5 secs. but feel that might be too much.
Have Mounting Dread work as it currently does, but the last proc of the mark allows the E to be reactivated, when reactivated throws out Wolf as a skillshot, allowing him to move further away from Lamb. If he hits an enemy deals damage and or slows... if ground casted positions wolf further, allowing him to use the W further away from Lamb.
Animation-wise, The ult seems soooo much more lamb oriented then Wolf... maybe have a small version of him circle the boundaries of the ult circle.... also maybe give them back the ability to choose where they cast it?
FlameHalbrdOkido1 votesWhat Kindred needs to solidify their aspect of two entities in one is to give Wolf more agency/more impact. Mounting Dread could be reworked to be a skillshot. Either:
have Wolf lunge out as a projectile, lightly damaging, marking and slowing the enemy, then have the same E system of Lamb attacking twice more to consume the mark, then have Wolf consume the enemy. Maybe have him completely wrap around the enemy for the animation of dealing damage. Tempted to add a blind/nearsight debuff for like 0.5 secs. but feel that might be too much.
Have Mounting Dread work as it currently does, but the last proc of the mark allows the E to be reactivated, when reactivated throws out Wolf as a skillshot, allowing him to move further away from Lamb. If he hits an enemy deals damage and or slows... if ground casted positions wolf further, allowing him to use the W further away from Lamb.
Animation-wise, The ult seems soooo much more lamb oriented then Wolf... maybe have a small version of him circle the boundaries of the ult circle.... also maybe give them back the ability to choose where they cast it?
they need to allow an ability where they focus more on Wolf's ability to chase targets down. Idc how they do it but its an important part of Wolf's theme
Draginath1 votesthey need to allow an ability where they focus more on Wolf's ability to chase targets down. Idc how they do it but its an important part of Wolf's theme
This.
Lore-wise, the Kindred is one of League's most interesting and poetically designed, in my opinion. Thematically, the "never one without the other" idea shines through beautifully. Lamb is blind, Wolf is deaf. Lamb understands emotion but doesn't feel them. Wolf feels emotion but doesn't understand them. Lamb is body; Wolf is spirit. Lamb is peace; wolf is aggression. The list goes on and on. Never been so hyped for a champion release in nearly a decade of playing this game.
Gameplay-wise, they are another story, unfortunately. They work, sure, but they are the shining example of gameplay superseding lore. Simply put, Lamb takes way too much of the spotlight, leaving Wolf like a glorified pet. You could remove him completely from any animations and absolutely nothing of note would change about the way the champion functions.
At the heart of this issue? Agency. There is just something missing from how Kindred plays and the fantasy Riot wants to sell. Take a look at two of my favorite voice lines from them:
Wolf: "Who's next?!" Lamb: "Everyone..."
Lamb: "Once you see us..." Wolf: "It's too late!"
That's what's missing: Dread. The Kindred aren't some malevolent creature seeking to met out despair. They're not some mage seeking power or warrior seeking glory. They are simply...Death. Just another part of the cycle. They love no one; they hate no one. They have no enemies or allegiances. They're not an entity or a creature, but a presence.
At present, Kindred has minimal ways to sort of "close out" their marks outside of just "stay in range and shoot". Kinda hard for a mark to be menacing when the solution is just "walk away".
Now there are a lot of ways that Kindred's kit could do that and the best way I can think of is to make W-Wolfs's Frenzy be a mobility-oriented ability. Give Kindred a way to quickly and efficiently move across the map to more aggressively descend on their marks.
What better way to do that than give players momentarily control of Wolf? I'm thinking some mix between Warwick's W and Kennen's E. Something that lets players abuse Wolf's speed and ferocity while locking them out of the other lamb-centric abilities for the duration.
FlameHalbrdOkido1 votesThis.
Lore-wise, the Kindred is one of League's most interesting and poetically designed, in my opinion. Thematically, the "never one without the other" idea shines through beautifully. Lamb is peace; wolf is aggression.
Gameplay-wise, they are another story, unfortunately. They work, sure, but they are the shining example of gameplay superseding lore. Simply put, Lamb takes way too much of the spotlight, leaving Wolf like a glorified pet. You could remove him completely from any animations and absolutely nothing of note would change about the way the champion functions.
At the heart of this issue? Agency. There is just something missing from how Kindred plays and the fantasy Riot wants to sell.
That's what's missing: Dread. They're not an entity or a creature, but a presence.
At present, Kindred has minimal ways to sort of "close out" their marks outside of just "stay in range and shoot". Kinda hard for a mark to be menacing when the solution is just "walk away".
agreed I think they need a whole new passive. You should be able to play as both cause in Lore when one is hunting the other actually sits back patiently and lets the other do their thing. They are together, but because they deaths they grant are inherently dichotic they actually DON'T work together. They are not like Nunu and Willump/ Quinn and Valor/ Kled and Skaarl
Additionally there is the idea that people CHOOSE how they die either by Lamb or by Wolf and this isn't represented in their gameplay either
I have a solution to the lack of DREAD, Wolfs lack of agency and the most important part of their theme actually. Choosing how you die.
The current passive needs to go its the most unhealthy form of stacking in the game and it makes Kindred suffer as one of the most feast or Famine champions out there. Theres a way u can keep a semblance of the old passive while adding in dread. Taking inspiration from Kayn's passive.
Draginath1 votesagreed I think they need a whole new passive. You should be able to play as both cause in Lore when one is hunting the other actually sits back patiently and lets the other do their thing. They are together, but because they deaths they grant are inherently dichotic they actually DON'T work together. They are not like Nunu and Willump/ Quinn and Valor/ Kled and Skaarl
Additionally there is the idea that people CHOOSE how they die either by Lamb or by Wolf and this isn't represented in their gameplay either
I have a solution to the lack of DREAD, Wolfs lack of agency and the most important part of their theme actually. Choosing how you die.
The current passive needs to go its the most unhealthy form of stacking in the game and it makes Kindred suffer as one of the most feast or Famine champions out there. Theres a way u can keep a semblance of the old passive while adding in dread. Taking inspiration from Kayn's passive.
I can definitely agree on the passive needing work. I get what Riot was trying to do, but thematically, what use does Death themselves have for a power stacking mechanic? Seems disconnected.
However, I do love the idea of marks but as something more similar to Garen's villain mechanic. The Kindred should have heightened kill potential on targets they mark for death, but it doesnt make sense for that to translate into to heightened combat prowess across the board.
At the same time, I like the idea of rewarding Kindred for claiming their marks, otherwise the passive bonuses might as well be rolled into the rest of their skills rather than being its own entity. What I would do instead is keep the stacking mechanic but stacks only increase the bonuses Mark of the Kindred grants Kindred when hunting a marked target.
For example, let's say that Mark of the Kindred was reworked to grant Kindred heightened movement speed towards a marked target. A claimed mark would result in Kindred having even more speed when moving towards the next target they mark. Of course, this could be applied to whatever bonuses we want to add.
Or if you want to step it up, Kindred can get additional bonuses unlocked for their mark as the claim more of them.
Regardless of what the bonuses are, the power budget for the ability is much more flexible when claiming marks translates to higher single-target combat capability rather than general power overall.
If you are marked by the Kindred, you probably don't want to try going toe to toe with them. If not, you want to take advantage of the reduced combat abilities they have without a mark up.
FlameHalbrdOkido1 votesI can definitely agree on the passive needing work. I get what Riot was trying to do, but thematically, what use does Death themselves have for a power stacking mechanic? Seems disconnected.
However, I do love the idea of marks but as something more similar to Garen's villain mechanic. The Kindred should have heightened kill potential on targets they mark for death, but it doesnt make sense for that to translate into to heightened combat prowess across the board.
agreed
At the same time, I like the idea of rewarding Kindred for claiming their marks, otherwise the passive bonuses might as well be rolled into the rest of their skills rather than being its own entity. What I would do instead is keep the stacking mechanic but stacks only increase the bonuses Mark of the Kindred grants Kindred when hunting a marked target.
For example, let's say that Mark of the Kindred was reworked to grant Kindred heightened movement speed towards a marked target. A claimed mark would result in Kindred having even more speed when moving towards the next target they mark. Of course, this could be applied to whatever bonuses we want to add.
Only if ur Wolf tho right?
Or if you want to step it up, Kindred can get additional bonuses unlocked for their mark as the claim more of them.
Regardless of what the bonuses are, the power budget for the ability is much more flexible when claiming marks translates to higher single-target combat capability rather than general power overall.
i definitely agree, especially since they have the added clause that u can't repeated mark the same champion w/o an extended wait period so u can't get easily fed off the same guy if they are having a rough match.
If you are marked by the Kindred, you probably don't want to try going toe to toe with them. If not, you want to take advantage of the reduced combat abilities they have without a mark up.
can I borrow these ideas?
JeaneGreene3 votesKindred is pretty strong rn. Building AD and grit makes E usually a oneshot
Summonah123691 votesKindred is pretty strong rn. Building AD and grit makes E usually a oneshot
three-shot*, cus u have to land 3 autos for that sweet dmg at the end.
Reformedfindlay3 votesGameplay Wise I think the infinite scale needs to go. It's cancerous and always has been.
Infinite bork scaling was cancerous, and the current passive is cancerous.
The problem with a jungle hypercarry ADC is that if they're weak early game (to justify their late game) then they can basically never do anything on their own, especially contest things like scuttle crab, and they're permatrash. If they're good enough early game to contest things in the jungle on their own, they immediately dominate the jungle and become pick/ban.
In terms of fun, I think kindred is kind of fun, but not fun enough to justify her cancerous kit.
Creativity wise, it's awful. Kindred is nothing but a stat check ADC with a utility ult.
Daddy Ants2 votesBalance wise
On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being weak and 10 being overpowered I'd say Kindred is a 6 maybe 7.
RookPusher2 votesShe needs a rework largely because she feels like a bunch of half-assed ideas thrown into one lackluster champ. She's the hotdog of champs.
Eliminate the two-in-one aspect, other champs do that much better already. Have the wolf be something else. Or at least not speak.
The Flip and shoot isn't bad. The wolf circle is boring. Scrap it. The slow shot should be something a little more engaging. Scrap it. Ult is fine.
Summonah123692 votesShe needs a rework largely because she feels like a bunch of half-assed ideas thrown into one lackluster champ. She's the hotdog of champs.
Eliminate the two-in-one aspect, other champs do that much better already. Have the wolf be something else. Or at least not speak.
The Flip and shoot isn't bad. The wolf circle is boring. Scrap it. The slow shot should be something a little more engaging. Scrap it. Ult is fine.
Ya know... it took Riot forever to make this champion. Have some respect. Besides the earliest concepts for this were much worse. Originally, they were nothing more than some sort of cyborg sniper.
TheOtherWoman2 votesI want the slow reverted back to when they were release also the ultimate being able to cast on allies, I had so much fun playing them when they first came out and now they don’t feel the same
FPSKILLERBOB2 votesI love them. Kindred is a very haunting champion while not being outright spooky or grotesque.
LilxPaprika1 voteskindred would likely be fine if she was versus tank meta (given the % hp dmg on her spells). if tank picks were more prevalent and a threat.
I'd be curious if it could just be a question of making certain items viable on her:
Espurr VI1 votesActually, as a person whos been spamming Kindred for several days now, I hate fighting against Tanks. Squishies are much easier to deal with, even if they are ADC or assassins.
Ahris1 votesShe has a unique niche, so her playrates wont be high even if she is broken.
Does avoid many nerfs.
Summonah123691 votesTheir wirnate, (my personal winrate on them) is doing pretty well atm, just managed to get Mastery 6 on them recently.
Noor Sakata1 votesShe is strong , and when she get's her marks, she is at the broken level
CasterGilgamesh1 votesi only play them for their vo and lore their gameplay sucks compared to when they first came out and even when they first came out i didnt like the game play cuz its mostly lamb with wolf as partical effects
Xilixer1 votesamazing voice acting, theme and character design as well as one of the best music themes. Gameplay/balance wise kindred has a lot of issues. They are either busted or weak as hell. They could use a rework.
Kindred falls in line with Jhin in a way. Except that Jhin was actually able to touch upon his theme with his gameplay. While Kindred really doesn't fall in line with their theme. It doesn't really show in their gameplay.
Śhunpo1 votesGameplay wise, degenerative but unique.
Balance wise, stop buffing her she's fine now.
Fun wise, not my kind of champ but I see the appeal.
Creativity wise, great, the design team did a good job with her (yes, I know it's them, I still prefer using "her").
ez mental boom1 votes[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fjv9bLEE,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-30T11:21:06.547+0000)
- Gameplay wise
is aight
- Balance wise
is aight
- Fun wise
is aight
- Creativity wise
One of the best champions ever created
Łµst1 votesRevert her. I miss old kindred. I got her m7 the day before she was reworked and I cried the day after because the gameplay is so different from her original design.
Akatšuki1 votesI feel like the one thing wrong with them is their ult. Doesn't make much sense for death itself to save legitimately EVERYTHING from death. Other than that they're pretty strong.
Espurr VI1 votesRank 6 Kindred here.
Gameplay wise, she doesn't seem... right. Her kit is slightly clunky, but the transition from her E to autoattack in rapid succession is actually pretty slow and can make a lot of people trip up. Her kiting in the jungle is awkward, which is understandable since not many ranged are in the jungle. She is extremely vulnerable to counter jungling, but her ganking is actually decent.
Balance wise, she is sort of balanced. She needs a lot of "even changes" where some of her things are switched for more thematically pleasing things. Case in point, her Q and R.
Fun wise, when she's ahead, she's pretty fun. However, if you're behind, I feel more tilted and useless than any other champion in the game.
Creativity wise, I'mma split this one into two sections. Lore and aesthetic wise, I fucking love Kindred. Her design looks sleek, vintage, and just... so pleasing. Looking at her aesthetic and hearing her voice is like taking a calm, silent, walk in a snowy forest.
Gameplay wise, her kit is offputting. She's the embodiement of death, so her kit should be a bit more... assassin like right? But she does mediocre sustained damage. She feels like a weaker Kaisa.
Changes I'd like to see on Kindred:
Passive: The first 2 marks should spawn on jungle monsters on your side of the map. The 3rd and 4th should be scuttle crabs 5 and 6th should be enemy red and blue Also, make it so that Dragon and Baron are ALWAYS marked.
Q: No longer grants attack speed. Now makes her next basic attack deal bonus max HP damage that scales HEAVILY with her AD. (I don't want to see any tank Kindreds out there) Marks increases the damage the 3 arrows deal, and the on hit damage granted. Dash speed is increased Everything else is the same.
W: This is fine. I like this ability.
E: No longer has a wind-up animation, or cast time. Everything else is the same.
R: Increase how much allies are healed, and slightly decrease how much enemies are healed.
FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes[{quoted}](name=Espurr VI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fjv9bLEE,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2018-10-31T05:54:31.971+0000)
Rank 6 Kindred here.
cool i'd like to get some insightful feedback from u
Gameplay wise, her kit is offputting. She's the embodiement of death, so her kit should be a bit more... assassin like right? But she does mediocre sustained damage. She feels like a weaker Kaisa.
not to seem insulting, but do u only see assassins as champions that can have the threat of death carried with them? I think that view is a bit flawed. Assassin cause death, they are not death. Death is unavoidable, an assassin can fail an assassination attempt. Assassins are scary and often cause death in a short amount of time, but its not the same as death itself. Think about it like this. Death can occur in many different ways, slow or fast violent or soft, and assassins can only represent one form of that. But death itself can be seen miles away and still occur unlike assassins who hide, death can always be right by ur side and theres nothin u can do about it.
If u ask me Juggernauts are better embodiment of death. If Urgot Ults u...and gets the recast ur gonna die no matter what - it even stops death passives i believe, nothing is left (if that doesn't personify death idk what does), if Nasus gets his near u and slows u, ur gonna die. And because they are so tanky theres often nothin u can do but run. And thats how death works u either futilely run from it or accept it and it take u
Changes I'd like to see on Kindred:
Honestly im sure u can agree that the changes ur suggesting won't truely fix Kindred they are just bandaid fixes because she needs a real rework, as she's not really meeting her theme. Both Lamb and Wolf need to be present with their own influence and I think enemies should be able to choose which version of Kindred they face just like in the lore. Kindred needs a full OVERhaul.
and it all starts with the passive. It can be called Acceptance/Denial I think Kindred should have an inner and outer radius, kinda like a giant Darius Q. Inner: 800/Outer 1200+(maybe global for marked targets) Kindred would have abilities meant just for Wolf and abilities meant just for Lamb. The exact # is up for debate. But upon damaging or marking an enemy when that enemy spends enough time within the radius Lamb becomes the dominant one and her abilities are used. When the enemy spends too much time in the outer radius Wolf would start getting anxious for a chase and then ultimately his abilities would be unlocked. This passive would prioritize champions with the Mark of Kindred and the rate at which Lamb or Wolf switches dominance would probably be faster on Marked champions.
The trick when playing against them is to know when to engage and when to disengage causing them to switch up roles when the Kindred player doesnt want to, or not allowing them to get into a certain pattern on one form. Perhaps they can keep their stacking nature. Damaging champs with either Lamb or Wolf builds stacks like Kayn and the more time u spend in one form the more stacks u get. Upon exiting combat or switching forms u consume the stacks buffing ur abilities every 10 stack or so.
This produces the Mounting dread of knowing that death is near because the more time u spend near it the stronger it gets. And Kindred don't have to jump out of the jg to surprise u with the fear of death to do so. They are there, and their presence means that eventually u will die and theres nothing u can do about it. (All other infinite stacking champs that stack dmg (since Bard's main purpose isn't damage)) have to interact with other champs in lane to get strong thats how they are balanced without making them have to kill enemy champs/enemy jg camps to get stronger since that is very feast/famine, Kindred should be similar.
what do u think?
Espurr VI1 votesI'm talking thematically. Lamb is implied to have burst damage in her lore. She offers a swift death with her fast and true arrow, while Wolf is a more drawn out attacker.
As for my changes, I haven't put that much thought into it. Honestly, she doesn't need a grand scale rework. A lot of what she has can be reused, like her Q and W. But she really does need someone creative to look at her closely, because Kindred cannot be designed easily with both thematics and game-play in mind, because of the clashing play styles. (Lamb vs Wolf)
FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes[{quoted}](name=Espurr VI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fjv9bLEE,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2018-10-31T08:06:09.961+0000)
I'm talking thematically. Lamb is implied to have burst damage in her lore. She offers a swift death with her fast and true arrow, while Wolf is a more drawn out attacker.
see thats where ur wrong lore isn't a 1 for 1 correlation with gameplay thats been a fact thats often stated by Riot. Lambs arrow signifies the peaceful passing of one from life to death, and this can be done if some one falls 1000 feet from a mountain and says welp OK as they hit the ground at 100MPH and it can be done as someone quietly passes away from old age in bed. Kindred's Arrow doesn't deal damage at all. Her attack simply signifies, u are dead now and u accepted it. The same kind of thing can be said for Wolf, perhaps Riot made this same mistake when making Kindred as well, but more likely it was a miscommunication between the writers and game designers but its a very subtle and nuanced one.
As for my changes, I haven't put that much thought into it. Honestly, she doesn't need a grand scale rework. A lot of what she has can be reused, like her Q and W. But she really does need someone creative to look at her closely, because Kindred cannot be designed easily with both thematics and game-play in mind, because of the clashing play styles. (Lamb vs Wolf)
sure current Q can stay on the Lamb version, and current W can be edited for the wolf version, but the E probs has to be changed alot.
PlsBuffMyMain1 votesI think she's unfun to play against, but I rarely see her so meh.
Gilgayu1 votesI really hope they can nerf the base damage of kindreds abilities and make her passive stack easier... cause I mean she can carry at 30 min with as little as 4 stacks now......
chipndip11 votesGame play: I hate their ult. Kindred is a carry. Why is their ult so defensive?
Balance: As difficult to balance as any marksman, right? Right now they're doing pretty good, though.
Fun: I can't play them for shit, but they're cool.
Creativity: As far as the character goes, they're PHENOMENAL and I wish they were integrated into the overarching story lines more. As far as IN-GAME creativity goes, though? They're...really low on the scale, there. They're an example of adding breadth instead of depth to the game.
jocomotion1 votesReally cool theme that’s not captured in game.
