can we raise the mana cost on all of brand's abilities if hes going to be a support?
having to dodge that fat ass W all lane phase is annoying as hell.
73 Comments
Troll for Trump8 votes- His W mana cost is already obnoxious especially since it can't oneshot waves alone, gimping him in mid lane even further if you nerf his W's mana cost
- I don't see why you're complaining about him as a support; he's not really doing much. There are much more obnoxious supps in botlane.
- He's supposed to be lane bully.
Orange Caramel7 votesPlay Nami, Water Counters Fire. (what if nami's w removed brand's passive?)
Hardstuck G43 votesIt's possible if you gave her W the effect of removing DoT abilities, but that would probably be a little busted
CasterGilgamesh1 voteslol just how many dot champions are there?
50000000000000003 votes
And also 
for items
Anti-DoT is probably a potential design space, but for most of these champions, the DoT is an important part of their kits
Bob the Toastr3 votesDon't forget this guy! 
Tails90164 votesThat the next champion to be released?
LordGeovanni1 votesthere was anti dot on 
. thank rioto for that rework though right.
But mages already complain about 
because then they stray q after their 1 shot combo doesnt finish off a full tank. (when if they wait 2 seconds they negate the item with gimped stats because of its whole passive's, passive
Hardstuck G42 votesThe other guy got most of them, but don't forget that there's also 
too :P
greekvandaL1 votesPlay Nami, Water Counters Fire. (what if nami's w removed brand's passive?)
Fire grills fishes tho.
Ahri Inari7 votesBrand need more than just lower base and higher ap scaling to be back in mid lane. He's so easly abusable in mid lane.
saltran2 votes[{quoted}](name=Ahri Inari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FXYzuX0t,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:30:24.740+0000)
Brand need more than just lower base and higher ap scaling to be back in mid lane. He's so easly abusable in mid lane.
This is a smarter version of the top coments. I agree that he should be mid but is not that easy to send him there as ppl think.
Nahui5 votesStand in minions. He'll hard push the lane, possibly take CS from the ADC, then gets ganked. Ganking a brand is one of the easiest ganks in the game, especially if he's pushed.
flibitydoo37 votes-
depending on ganks in soloQ is extremely stupid. Trust me when I say that the average jungler has no concept of "overextending" or "punishing" and will continue to only farm their jungle (but somehow do it slower than the enemy jungler who not only outfarms your jungler but also ganks).
-
he's literally just going to harass you under tower. That's all that changes. Trust me, I've laned against many botlane brands. The range on it is high enough that he can do that.
A much better solution to the brand problem is to reduce his passive from 4% back down to 2% (aka back to where no one complained about him). then make it scale so his %health damage goes up with ap (with it neutralizing to 4% at about 200-300 ap). Currently only his passive explosions scale with ap.
Done2516 votes
depending on ganks in soloQ is extremely stupid. Trust me when I say that the average jungler has no concept of "overextending" or "punishing" and will continue to only farm their jungle (but somehow do it slower than the enemy jungler who also ganks).
he's literally just going to harass you under tower. That's all that changes. Trust me, the range on it is high enough that he can do that.
A much better solution to the brand problem is to reduce his passive from 4% back down to 2% (aka back to where no one complained about him). then make it scale so his %health damage goes up with ap (with it neutralizing to 4% at about 200-300 ap). Currently only his passive explosions scale with ap.
He definitely needs lower base values and higher AP scaling to get him back into mid lane where he belongs.
It Hertz When IP3 votesEspecially his passive, which only has scaling on the explosion, and that's minimal. The overwhelming majority of his passive damage is just THERE, without needed to build for it.
Nahui5 votesI can agree with the lower damage on his passive, and having it scale with AP I think would be really good (So long as he can't build 800 AP and then burn you for like 6%+), but the mana cost thing is eh. I think his mana is where it needs to be. I play a lot of bot lane too, especially when he was hyper strong there. It's a strategy I found to be very useful. Just stand in the ranged minions, he walks up, W, you walk out, he just shoves the wave. It's even better if you stand near the W'd minions because he will almost always try to E to try and hit you, costing more mana and shoving even harder. Then, they push in, and you ping. Spam ping if need be. Type something. Yeah, solo queue junglers, especially low ELO, have very little awareness very often, which is why you need to take matters into your own hands and force their attention. We also can't use solo queue, low ELO behavior as a balancing point. We can't say Brand needs mana nerfs because junglers don't gank. His mana costs are decent, and in lane he is annoying, however there are easy ways to play around him.
He may harass you under tower, but your jungler should also be there when that happens. If not, it's not a champion problem but a player problem. His passive would be a fine place to him him, but the mana costs seem to be where they need to be, especially since they recently tried to put him back mid by buffing his mana costs. It would be counter intuitive to nerf them, that would put him back more in the supp role than they intend.
Ixoziel3 votes
depending on ganks in soloQ is extremely stupid. Trust me when I say that the average jungler has no concept of "overextending" or "punishing" and will continue to only farm their jungle (but somehow do it slower than the enemy jungler who not only outfarms your jungler but also ganks).
he's literally just going to harass you under tower. That's all that changes. Trust me, I've laned against many botlane brands. The range on it is high enough that he can do that.
A much better solution to the brand problem is to reduce his passive from 4% back down to 2% (aka back to where no one complained about him). then make it scale so his %health damage goes up with ap (with it neutralizing to 4% at about 200-300 ap). Currently only his passive explosions scale with ap.
I REALLY like that suggestion.
Attticus Finch4 votesThat isn't a good solution to Brand, as there is no problem for a solution to be necessary. Brand is a strong pick but the stats don't show him to be overbearing. What data can you provide to show that Brand needs nerfs? Remember that anecdotes are meaningless.
Doctor Jarvis5 votesAnecdotes are NOT meaningless. They simply aren't data. Data can show Brand is a strong but not overwhelming pick, but frankly ask anyone who's played against a good Brand and they'll tell you, win or lose, it FELT oppressive.
NineTailedMystic3 votesPlayer perception is a strong factor in whether a champ is actually oppressive or not.
Ahri Baka1 votes
depending on ganks in soloQ is extremely stupid. Trust me when I say that the average jungler has no concept of "overextending" or "punishing" and will continue to only farm their jungle (but somehow do it slower than the enemy jungler who not only outfarms your jungler but also ganks).
he's literally just going to harass you under tower. That's all that changes. Trust me, I've laned against many botlane brands. The range on it is high enough that he can do that.
A much better solution to the brand problem is to reduce his passive from 4% back down to 2% (aka back to where no one complained about him). then make it scale so his %health damage goes up with ap (with it neutralizing to 4% at about 200-300 ap). Currently only his passive explosions scale with ap.
Sadly for me , even at 2% I used to complain about him xD
Dorans Pants1 votes....and will continue to only farm their jungle (but somehow do it slower than the enemy jungler who not only outfarms your jungler but also ganks).
i just LOVE when that happens. makes me question what my jgl actually did with all his freetime.
Z3Sleeper1 votesLol stand “in” minions. That’s how u get creepblocked and eat every W
Nahui1 votesRefer to answer below.
Z3Sleeper4 votesWe can play hypothetical scenarios all we want but the fact is that a good Brand is going to land his skills sometime.
It's pretty inevitable, he has the tools to guide his targets into his spells.
W forces movement when cast, Q forces positioning behind minions, E forces positioning away from minions.
Good brands will use this knowledge to their advantage and will land skills by abusing these psychological factors.
That goes for any champion with a skillshot, that's why skillshots land.
Nahui1 votesOf course skill shots land, if they didn't, their projectile speed/cast animation speed would be buffed. You can't dodge them all, but your health bar is just another resource and sometimes you have to use it to win. You can dodge many, and I'm sure someone who one tricks Brand support could hit me more than I'm used to, but overall Brand is a mage support that supports pick because they don't really support and just want to do damage and carry. W forces movement, so move away from him and the W. The Q is rendered null, and then the E can either be dodged or eaten, but he doesn't max it first so it does minimal damage while shoving the wave extremely hard. I'm talking a typical middle of the lane scenario where the melee's clash, there's that gap, then ranged minions sit. If he wants to Q you, he needs to be in the bush, or above by the river. Whichever side he is on, you bait from the opposite side in the minions. I don't know if it was misinterpreted when I said stand in them like you want him to W the entire wave, no. It's mainly forcing him to W the ranged minions. If you can somehow get him to do the entire wave, fucking great. But usually it's just the back line but it's enough for a push. He will land a W here and there when you misstep or if he gets the jump on you, but overall it's obvious when he's looking to W and generally, it works. That's why Brand isn't seen too much anymore, his win rates are just barely positive, and overall isn't being looked at too much.
Anyways, if they want to nerf him, they won't do it via mana. They want him mid more, not supp. He needs base damage reduction, increased scaling. Mana is easier to conserve supp than as mid, which is a good reason he's down there in the first place.
Ben SwoIo1 votesStand in minions. He'll hard push the lane, possibly take CS from the ADC, then gets ganked. Ganking a brand is one of the easiest ganks in the game, especially if he's pushed.
Lol, easy gank my ass. That mother fucker clicks R and your team dies. #suicideult
Nahui1 votesI mean if all 3 of you stand next to each other during the gank, sure. But if Brand and friend is pushed, jungler comes from a roughly 180-220 degree angle away from you guys, then Brand has a decision to make. Blow it all on you as you move in, or turn around and try and CC the ganker. Usually he E-Q-W's the ganker allowing you two to jump right in and kill him/ADC. But, again, if you huddle together like scouts around a campfire, you're going to die.
I Main Swain5 votesi have a better idea
stop letting him be such a strong support and send him back to mid lane. lower his base damages, increase his scalings, and get rid of the extra passive they gave him that he didnt need. that or just plain reduce all his abilities damages by some so that its more essential to his damage output
Cosmic Lux9 votessorry but your idea completely sucks. how is he meant to wave clear as a mid laner without his base damage?
his wave clear is already utter crap.
SpaghettiVase11 votesThen maybe give him bonus minion damage? Just because he's shitty at wave clearing doesn't mean he also has to have ridiculous bases and boosted tank spreading capabilities
Cosmic Lux1 votesThen maybe give him bonus minion damage? Just because he's shitty at wave clearing doesn't mean he also has to have ridiculous bases and boosted tank spreading capabilities
oh i definitely agree, this is what i was thinking as well.
I Main Swain2 votessorry but your idea completely sucks. how is he meant to wave clear as a mid laner without his base damage?
his wave clear is already utter crap.
with higher ap scalings? yes his early game waveclear will be weak, but it isnt supposed to be particularly strong early game for brand to begin with, and his aa's work better than a whole lot of other mid laners for last hitting, and with higher scalings his mid/late game waveclear, the point where his waveclear is SUPPOSED to be strong, will be stronger. either way, his base damage allows him to deal more damage than he should without much ap
LordGeovanni1 votesNo it doesnt let him wave clear when wave clear should be good which is not at the start of the game in case you didnt get the point
xelaker1 votessupport brand is only different from mid brand by one item. it's not like brand supports buy all the support items and still wreck teams because his scalings are just the greatest thing ever...
LazyW0lf5 votesHis base damage just needs to be addressed. It would kill his support and not really touch his mid.
andzki3 votesI hate when midlane burst mages go support and are able to outdamage any adc
DuskDaUmbreon2 votesI hate when midlane burst mages go support and are able to outdamage my botlane, as well as my jungler, and the Teemo shrooms dropped there by my toplaner
FTFY
GGLineaR3 votesCan we maybe just make all the aoe and radii on his abilities smaller?
And then change his numbers afterwards, if he's still a problem later.
Cause his actual problem is how easy it is to land his abilities, from how I see it. And mana cost increases can come after, if they're really a problem.
Neptunia xoxo2 votesI mean Brand still gets countered by Leona Alistar Braum Nami Karma ect so I don't see why people think hes a problem. Hes rarely even seen in high level play in mid or as support.
xelaker2 votesuntil you can start hitting peeps with 3 spells fkin nami is gonna out damage you and heal at the same time lol
PhantomPrankster1 votes[{quoted}](name=Fk me Ahri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FXYzuX0t,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-03-22T01:10:53.761+0000)
I mean Brand still gets countered by Leona Alistar Braum Nami Karma ect so I don't see why people think hes a problem. Hes rarely even seen in high level play in mid or as support.
because me the ADC can't pick those characters
Neptunia xoxo3 votesbecause me the ADC can't pick those characters
Caitlyn Varus Tristana Vayne are an example of adcs that do well vs Brand because they can either range and farm safely or have an easier way to dodge his poke or can hard punish Brand for missing any abilities trying to poke such as Tristana. Wow man so hard to deal with him wow damn
BroLane2 votesBrand isn't that bad
Thilmer1 votesSincé Brand became popular as support, he gets constant changes to be balance around the support role, and here I am playing him in mid since season 3 and suffering because of the Brand supports. [slayer-jinx-unamused] Not fun.
Poske1 votesPeople are actually complaining about BRAND
while rakan, LULU and janna are altleast 19 tiers above
Nami and Soraka are also quite above
You do realise that most of ENCHANTERS outpoke your stupid brand
PhantomPrankster1 votesPeople are actually complaining about BRAND
while rakan, LULU and janna are altleast 19 tiers above
Nami and Soraka are also quite above
You do realise that most of ENCHANTERS outpoke your stupid brand
rakan is squishy and has to put himself in a position to be attacked for engage
Lulu is the most busted support of all time but i can't do anything about that
janna has been viable her entire life riot ain't touching her
i love nami so im biased towards her
soraka doesn't NUKE my health in lane, she just keeps people alive.
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