I think I know why toxicity is on the rise.

ApexInTheCircle··47 votes·3,065 views

So I've been playing this game for..God knows how long (late 2010 I think?) And since I've been playing I've noticed that everyone's attitude, mine included has become somewhat...For lack of better words, toxic.

So I sat back and took a critical look at what I think the root cause of this problem is. But first we need a comparison of what the game used to be and what it is now.

Old League. -Games lasted much longer -Low champion pool so easier to balance -Games could be won or turned around from a 4v5 or after losing -Every champion had a counter or paid for their strengths with their weaknesses -Champions were simple but fun, some took alot of strategy despite them being relatively simple in design. -The game was still new so the community had yet to blow up -New players weren't treated as a hindrance or had vitriol thrown at them. -No enforced Meta

New League. -Games are much shorter when compared to it's earlier state -Larger champion pool and more variety (a good thing) -Games are much more "snowbally" and harder to win or have a comeback -Some champion mechanics have had their counters removed or nerfed (I.E point and click CC being phased out is increasing mobility creep) -Champions are much much more complex than they ever were (Again, also a good thing) -The community has exploded into such a super massive population that it's almost unreal -New players are treated as complete subhuman and garbage -The meta is 100% enforced by Riot even though they themselves have stated they would never do so in the past.

So taking a look at this I've considered a few things in my following analysis.

1.Games tend to be a stomp now, not all games, but most. -This causes frustration and dismay in alot of people on the losing side as comebacks are much harder. -Losing in this manner will cause a toxicity rise in both teams, winning teams feel as though they are completely better by miles and losing teams growing angry at each other because of the flow of the game. -Having a man down in this current season will be weighed against them even more.

2.Champions having their counters nerfed or removed. -This really sucks considering it phases out alot of picks because of their rising unreliability and being just plain outclassed. -Point and click hard CC is a necessary evil that is slowly but surely being taken out of the game in trade for skill shot based CC

3.Enforced Meta means if you pick an off pick you will be punished...By your own team. -Most of the time your own teammates will tear you a new one for picking something they deem useless. -The meta was slowly made a thing by Riot rather they know it or not. originally Dragon was just used as a gold pot for your team and nothing more. But now if you do not take dragons you will have a much higher chance of losing the game. Basically making smite a requirement, ergo making jungle a requirement. -Riot has repeatedly nerfed champions for being played off meta or in a place that they don't want them to be played. -The jungle was made accessible by only a handful of champions that can harsh the increasing buffed monsters and punish those who cannot, pigeonholing you into certain picks for certain areas. (How ever I give Riot praise for trying to break this with Morde)

Honestly in my opinion, this is why the game has seen an increase in toxicity and anger, it doesn't take a fancy PHD in cognitive neuroscience or psychology to see why people are getting so upset at this game. All it takes is a simple read on the forums and putting 2 and 2 together are realizing that it makes 4.

Again this is all just my speculation but I think it's pretty solid, I'm pretty excited to see what everyone else has to bring into this conversation. Also forgive any mistakes I have made making this as it's late and my brain is functioning very very slowly.

56 Comments

BluePolarizer21 votes

pretty much this. games are stompier and the stomp is different from previous season stomps. Previous season stomps always gave you a glimmer of hope by turtling at inner turrets or inhib turrets. Now thats all gone. When you even take away the hope of a comeback, people get frustrated.

Look at the tank meta - a healthy meta was naturally developing around jungle and top lane tanks, which led to their counterpicks rising, which even led to cross-lane counters such as Vayne rising (despite the popularity of her natural counters like Jinx and Graves). Then it was destroyed by repeated nerfs to Cinderhulk and tanks themselves.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yeah, but, on the other hand, it's stupidly annoying when a team that is super ahead loses. It would be like you were winning a game, but a player afked and you lost because it was 4v5. It may be fun for the opponent, but not for the team which was ahead. Champs that can dominate when behind are annoying. If a champ is powerful while it is behind, how powerful is it when ahead? Think of Old nasus carrying teamfights(back with his old splash art).

Retillin11 votes

But, if a team is super ahead and they lose, did they really deserve to win? If a team can't/doesn't/won't finish a game when they are winning hard, then that sucks to be them. It's their fault they lost, not the games.

Spoofghoul18 votes

If it takes more players doing well 2-3-4-5 to win whilst 1 guy can completelye fuck your team over, intentionally or not, well that increases toxicity too. And it has only gotten worse this preseason

Before 1 guy having a bad game could be evened out by someone having a good game., at least that is if that player whom is having a bad game was at least trying to minimize the damage.

Right now if someone underperforms its game over in 75% of the games, and im talking about someone giving up firstblood then getting ganked killed and have his tower taken. Thats pretty much all you need to win these days. If this happens to someone he will get flak from the rest of his team even if it was just a good play from the opponent and he/she couldn't do anything

This also further enforces the meta as it is what people know and makes things overal easier to understand for alot of players. No more room for creativity and odd strategies.

I think this game should be more teamdependant wether its winning or losing. Im totally fine with champions snowballing in terms of power, because that is not the issue. The issue is thta one snowballing champion snowballs the entire map into that teams favor these days.

Imho objectives should be tougher to take. This will increase the importance of working together. Riot was on the right track with different attributes for towers so no one strategy ruled supreme in the towergame. The same with dragon by making it hit harder on the team who has taken it before.

Making neutral objectives more difficult to take the more you have of them like dragon means in order to get 5 you need to consistently stay ahead and work with your team to get more of them.

For towers i suggested elsewhere in these boards to make them ´´upgradable´´ where players could reinforce them with turret specific items, adding another layer of strategy.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Right now if someone underperforms its game over in 75% of the games, and im talking about someone giving up firstblood then getting ganked killed and have his tower taken. Thats pretty much all you need to win these days.

I dunno, this happens to me every time I play top and I win half my games top.

BestTristMyHaus4 votes

IDEALLY, they need to come up with more ideas like Rift Walker. That is a GREAT idea for teamwork, with the "hit it in the back for max damage" mechanic, it makes it hugely important to have a team popping that thing, rather than how a single champion can take out dragon.

BestTristMyHaus9 votes

Not that I disagree with your take on it, but I think you can't discount the balancing methodology of Riot. To be clear, I'm not saying it's wrong per se, or not understandable, (aside from Yasuo, screw him) but there is a problem with balancing around the top of the playerbase.

Conventional wisdom is that you climb rank up through Plat (or maybe low diamond?) by carrying. After that, the players are good enough that it's not about your individual strategy and mechanics, you instead NEED to work with your teammates. This makes perfect sense for a team game. But since the MAJORITY of the playerbase is not in that top tier, that means the game itself is balanced on the EXPECTATION that you will coordinate and play "correctly" with your team, even though for MOST people, you will not HAVE a team that does that. It makes perfect sense that people would get frustrated playing a game in which some aspects ASSUME you will coordinate together despite all experience showing that you won't. (for most people) This frustration then leads to people yelling at the person who is "supposed" to stop the "broken" champion despite the fact that NO ONE (including (more often than not) the complainer) behaving in a way that would handle it effectively.

Again, not saying the game SHOULD be balanced around low level play, I'm merely noting that balancing around high level play (which is focused on teamwork) and then accepting that low level play does NOT focus on teamwork, leads to a lot of frustrated and angry players.

Ralanr7 votes

Kinda why I hate the carry mentality. This is a team game, it shouldn't be determined by one player alone.

Course many team sports have a "star player" thing. Can't say I like that.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

I concur on that entirely.

revliledpembroke1 votes

I hate that "LOL Y DON'T U JUST CARRY SCRUB?" mentality. I'm sorry, I'm sure tank Leona and Braum are easily going to carry games while their ADC is a useless shit who thinks 1 v 5-ing is their God-given right as a Vayne.

TheGr8WhiteD9 votes

I play 5-10 games a day since 5.22 rolled out, and i can tell you right now, that 1 minute off the average time statistic HAS to be scewed by SOMETHING. Maybe in ranked it isnt so bad, but in normals, holy moly, probably 60% of my games are ended by surrenders. THAT is a statistic i want to see. But Riot would never tell you surrender rates because lets be real here, that is the indication of how fun and balanced the game is. If you want to know if this preseason is absurd or not, thats what you need to look at.

Kouga1 votes

I think that Surrender rates would be completely garbage, actually; I don't vote to surrender that often, but when I do it is usually because we are literally about to lose anyway (like we just got Aced on a Baron fight, 40 second death timers, no nexus turrets) or something, just to speed up the process. Or, if it was a fun game, we'll still surrender if we lose right before the nexus gets taken down and try to get a Double Nexus Explosion, just for shits & giggles.

Shyvauni6 votes

Honestly... you are over complicating the issue.

The issue is simply human nature. Far to many humans get off on annoying.frustrating others especially if they can do so anonymously. Add to that people who are easily upset/angered by theses type of action that they create more toxicity by becoming frustrated and retaliating. Then you have People who just sort of absorb the toxicity until they themselves start to become that way without realizing it. Only a select few are immune to becoming as those around them are and they should honestly be praised for it.

All you did was create justifications for theses people to use so that they can claim they are blameless for their own actions. Some of us toxic people do try ti revert but it is most definitely not an easy task. And most humans tend to take the path of least Resistance. Why change when they can stay the same?

ZT Xperimentor5 votes

Glad I'm not the only one seeing this spiraling failure . . .

Transgressor2 votes

Vote with your wallet mate o/

Hierarch of Aiur5 votes

First of all, you sound intelligent as fuck (seriously people could learn from you). And second of all, I agree with this whole statement. With old LoL having slower games, they were much more enjoyable, and dragon and Baron weren't boulders held by pebbles waiting to be pushed. Although it is nice having a larger champ pool with more diversity, it seems it was being overfilled very fast, so champions didn't have the time to really sink in, and get the maximum amount of feedback from the community.

With the current meta, it's just a case of farm, or be farmed because everyone is playing the highest damage champs possible: and more high damage is being released. So you always have to look behind your shoulder for any Zeds or Yasuos popping out of nowhere, bursting you out out of existence with their combo that has a 60 second ult cooldown, and then escaping 90% of the time without losing too much health. You are also punished by your team when you don't make "LCSplays" when you first play a champion, or are new to a champion.

The jungle as well. I really don't like how it's required as you said. I like when things are optional, and not required cough Flash cough. Literally every role is required to have Flash. I like when you are allowed to go with something weird like Ghost-Ignite, or Teleport-Heal.

Games yes. I agree with every single word. They are too snowbally, too stompy, and almost zero comeback. The thing that determines the winner is pretty much who has the most objectives and kills by the 15 minute mark.

New player treatment. It makes my head hurt. I came from the HoTS community when I first started playing LoL (it already has more diversity and uniqueness than LoL can ever dream to have) and it was like I was being taught how to breathe. Move here. Press W. FFS I know how video games work. New player treatment needs massive improvement.

So yeah. You make a very good point. I think it would be best for Riot to start working on the actual game, and looking at what made it what it was back in the day.

Yormaughm5 votes

You're absolutely right about pretty much everything, but I'm pretty sure it's too late.

Sensible people have seen where this is headed and simply given up and moved on with their lives. Honestly I'm not sure why I still come here myself. I guess my 15 or so friends that got me into this game 3 years ago were wiser than I in that every single one of them quit playing long ago.

Clown Apocalypse4 votes

Yes people raging about the meta is a big problem for me in some games because I like to play strange champs sometimes like shaco support or kennen adc. The raging will begin in champ select and no amount of muting will stop a person from just trying to totally blame your off meta pick for the loss. To the point that I've had people pretty much intentionally throw games to "teach me a lesson", or just play poorly because they are too busy typing in chat and running their mouths because they tilted before the game even began.

People are also toxic because a lot of things that should be reportable in ranked gameplay aren't. Like when someone dies 20 times and never builds any defensive items and pretty much just split pushes all game. I get this person in roughly 20% of my games, and although I hate to admit that I've won once or twice because of this person, it is absolutely nerve wracking to have them on your team.

Honestly I have high hopes for the ranked teambuilder. Dedicated trolls will always be around, but when you are guaranteed to get one of two roles you want at least it will cut back on people trolling the team because they are last pick and don't like to jungle.

My top reason for why people are so toxic is probably the afk situation. Not only will people refuse to surrender a 4 vs 5, not only can you get banned for leaving it when they won't surrender, but you lose full LP, can get demoted, can lose your series. Sometimes the person never even connects and the game starts anyways. I've had 8 afks in 20 games before. For me personally that is the ultimate kick in the nuts and I used to get banned for raging at people who wouldn't surrender those games and just flat out afking myself after they shot down the vote. Now I'm forced to just sit and stew in silence and internalize my frustration because I'm not allowed to vent at the source or even assert myself without someone saying "report". It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth that's guaranteed to carry over into other games.

Speaking of report, report has to be the most commonly used word in chat. It's starting to feel less like a game and more like a social experiment complete with punishments and weird mental health surveys. No one's allowed to get angry. They don't care if you go break a plate in your house, or punch your little brother, or kick your dog, or any of the other petty things people randomly do when they're mad. You just better not rage in chat. Or else.

BestTristMyHaus5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Catch A Fade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FVOR0MVz,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-11-25T18:24:46.488+0000)

Yes people raging about the meta is a big problem for me in some games because I like to play strange champs sometimes like shaco support or kennen adc. The raging will begin in champ select and no amount of muting will stop a person from just trying to totally blame your off meta pick for the loss. To the point that I've had people pretty much intentionally throw games to "teach me a lesson", or just play poorly because they are too busy typing in chat and running their mouths because they tilted before the game even began.

Part of the problem with off-meta champs is people get "taught" that they're bad. To put it in perspective, if you're playing a meta-support and you suck at it, the ADC has likely seen opponents or had allies that were good at it so the thinking is "the champ is fine, YOU suck". With off-meta, once you have 1 or 2 people play it badly, the thinking is "that's a terrible pick". And really, unless YOU are really good (and how am I supposed to know that if I don't team with you) the assumption that EVERYONE tells you to start with is "everyone ELSE on your team sucks" and go from there. So, if you're a crappy Thresh, I'm used to seeing Thresh in lane and as long as you don't intentionally feed, I know how to work around what you want. If you're Shaco, you may be an ungodly Shaco support, but to me you're gonna just keep diving which is either a) you take all the kills or b) you feed, neither of which makes for a good SUPPORT.

(For the record, my PERSONAL view until VERY recently was to view Zilean support as practically a "troll" support pick, BECAUSE all the ones I got were always TERRIBLE, and he IS a "meta" support)

Clown Apocalypse4 votes

I like playing shaco into blitz, thresh, ali, voli. People who are real agressive in how they position. Blitz has to get where he can line up that skillshot which makes it a little easier to predict where to place boxes. People think Shaco is no deterrent in lane but not only do I get my adc's out of some bad spots and fed, but I roam and gank and help counterjungle like a boss when I have an adc I can leave in lane for 30 seconds without them dying. I've seen people suck with enough meta champs to know that it doesn't matter if they are picking the most broken champ in league they can still fail. Seen people destroyed by champs they hard counter as well. I think people are more concerned with you filling a role than they are you playing a champ you are good with as part of a 5 man team. It's not like the strategy changes any if people play off meta champs. The goal is still to knock down the nexus. You can do that with any champ. Every champ I've ever thought sucked, I've seen someone destroy with.

I just think people should be open to more playstyles, and if at the end of the game you turned out to be a troll, then they should be able to validly report you. Me personally when I shaco support I tell them go look at my profile on one of the sites if they rage too hard. Good KDA and over 200 games played. Why would you rage about having that on your team when you haven't played more than 30 games with a single champ and only 5 on the one you are currently playing? Those are usually the people who get destroyed with their "meta" pick that they don't know how to play. I could pick braum or zilean whom I never play and are meta as you state....and absolutely ruin the entire game for real possibly. I mean probably not, but hypothetically.

IMO if I'm sitting in lane with you, doing damage to the enemy, helping with vision, letting you farm, and trying to keep people off of you...I'm supporting you no matter who I'm playing. If i'm getting you kills even better. Wards are nice at stopping ganks, but frequently me and my adc's just end up turning and straight rekking the jungler because they walked right into 2 boxes trying to gank us with half health. I dare them to turret dive. Every character has their strengths and weaknesses and counters. Being able to flash every 8 seconds doesn't hurt either. Leona's probably the most problematic support for me in terms of matchups because a lot of adc's I support don't always position the best but everyone has their bad matchups.

Personally I think the C in adc makes people feel like they are the most important person on the team even when they are 2 and 10. I mean they changed it in the clien to marksment, it just needs to catch on with people. I also think it's the most coddled role in all of league. Not only do you expect someone to sit in lane with you and watch you farm, funnel kills to you, ward, eat damage , and run around generally weaker than everyone all game....but you expect them to do it with only characters you approve of.

slippykitten4 votes

It could have something to do with Riots zero effort to stop trolling.

I even came on boards to prove this and let everyone know i trolled 250 ranked games straight all the way down to bronze 5, no riot response whatsoever, account still in good standing.

How could toxicity not be on the rise when they wont even ban the people who admit to being dedicated trolls?

LegendaryLemur3 votes

It actually feels way less toxic then when i started (mid season 2) but maybe its just because i don't suck as horribly so people have less to yell at me about.

ZacAttackX3 votes

League is a toxic community. You will be flamed or praised, and i hate it. How did this community become to toxic in the first place! like what the fuck! We need to start to be....more compassionate and nicer to our fellow summoners. I personally think that if we make an effort comment stuff like... "Good game" "Nice shot!" "I love ur username <3 ' "Nice skin bru!" "I love this new rework, how about you guys?"

Rather then...

"wtf! You suck, plz uninstall scrub" "Teemo takes no fucking skill!" "Riven such a bs champ..." "Kat..really...play a champ that takes skill Bitch" "Our adc wasn't in ANY of our team fights. She rather farm bot lane...useless piece of garbage"

If we want to have a more pleasant experience in league, we need to change our attitude towards other players.

50ShadesOfGender2 votes

[deleted]

Khell DarkWolf10 votes

{quoted}

You have no clue what you are talking about. Games have barely changed in average game length. Games snowballed much harder in before season 5 than the do now. The reason there is more toxicity is because it is pre season, no one gives a shit, and there are tons of broken champions and items in the game.

yeah, you're wrong buddy. His analysis was pretty spot on.

50ShadesOfGender2 votes

[deleted]

Trídent6 votes

Only 1 minute is definitely wrong. A lot of SRs are shorter or only slightly longer than ARAMs now

shabingi1 votes

According to who? Your anecdotal evidence of playing a few games this season?

Troll for Trump1 votes

Source?

Applesaucey3 votes

{quoted}

It literally says in the patch notes that average game time went down 1 minute. Please post where you are getting actual facts/statistics that game times are significantly lower.

"Many folks out there are experiencing faster games on 5.22, and we're seeing that reflected in about a minute off the average game-time."

Wow 1 fucking minute, 3% faster games, holy shit stop the presses.

Games did snowball more in previous seasons. One down inhib affected minions in every lane. Dragon gave gold. The inhib turret wasn't a laser turret with a slow. Oracles existed. Turrets did less damage. Passive gold was lower.

Yet in prior seasons it wasn't all that uncommon for games to go 50-60 minutes. Now its rare for a game to even break 40.

Transgressor5 votes

Many folks out there are experiencing faster games on 5.22

So it is happening, and everyone is admitting it, good.

1 fucking minute, on average.

Which means, 70/100 games could last 20 minutes and 30/100 could last 55 minutes. Which means the overwhelming majority are having shitty games which are ofsetted by those extreme cases. Ofcourse looking at averages smoothes out the issue, that's what statistics are for. You can't really have 3% less time. Time only moves forward, you can't have 3%less of it each minute. I don't remember games snowballing so fucking hard it made you feel worthless yourself, and pointless to try to fight hoping to turn it around. If I want brief games I'll go play Heroes of the Storm.

I can take a tier 2 mid turret with just 1 minion wave as Ziggs. I can push to the inhinitor solo with Syndra. It's ridiculous. The game is AIDS, and it will only go further downhill. They gutted Skarner on the PBE without any form of context, not that it would make his rape any more justified.

Poske6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Khell DarkWolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FVOR0MVz,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-25T08:24:18.825+0000)

yeah, you're wrong buddy. His analysis was pretty spot on.

Tbh i just had intent feeder in ranked game Because "this is just preseason"

ApexInTheCircle9 votes

{quoted}

You have no clue what you are talking about. Games have barely changed in average game length. Games snowballed much harder in before season 5 than the do now. The reason there is more toxicity is because it is pre season, no one gives a shit, and there are tons of broken champions and items in the game.

Ty for your great input, and total miss of what I'm saying. And I'm not talking about just preseason changes, I'm speaking of the game since it's release up until now. But I'll upvote you because your post is cute and made me laugh alittle.

50ShadesOfGender2 votes

[deleted]

ApexInTheCircle6 votes

{quoted}

You seem to be on the games are all stomps now circle jerk, but this just isn't supported that strongly by any data (which is why its a forum circlejerk). Games are slightly faster, about 3%. If there truly are more stomps, it is likely because it is pre season and the balance is whack, not because of some snowballing mechanic conspiracy theories. The nerf to TP will probably increase snowballing more than any other change in the pre season and most people agree it was necessary.

I can't say I'm part of the circle jerk considering since the marksmen update I've been int he midst of a move and have not had access to league in about a week and a half to 2 weeks. And I'm simply making an observation based off of 5 years of play and noticing trends and changes.

shabingi1 votes

Well, then surely you would have noticed by now this happens EVERY YEAR EVERY PRE SEASON.

EIven Rope1 votes

{quoted}

You have no clue what you are talking about. Games have barely changed in average game length. Games snowballed much harder in before season 5 than the do now. The reason there is more toxicity is because it is pre season, no one gives a shit, and there are tons of broken champions and items in the game.

A'men. You're one of the most sensible individuals on the forums.

Transgressor1 votes

Man*

Man is singular form. Men is plural form.

Goodbye.

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

Honestly, for me, I find it's just a matter of being in a toxic community for so long. I ignore as much as I can, but after being here for three or four years, I find myself having more and more moments where I lay into some self-righteous jerk riding a lucky 10-2 game for chewing out one of our teammates. Or, I confess, sometimes simply not caring if we win or lose because at least two of my teammates have proven themselves to be unworthy of my time with their comments.

When in Runeterra, spit venom, it seems.

Sythriel Draken2 votes

In addition, the amount of intentional feeders who then AFK is on the rise.. I just lost two games in a row because in one game our top laner fed a darius, then afked at 5 minutes in, followed by our mid at 12 minutes and in the other, our bot lane fed mid and top while letting the other team's bot lane get free farm.

What's annoying is riot is slow in doing anything about it thanks to their slow report system when it comes to intentional feeding and there's nothing in place, especially in ranked, to help us as the player and victim of these feeders deal with the LP loss/series loss because of this.

Robbit Mang2 votes

cough release xin cough

LegacyDAP2 votes

I think you're right about this, I'd be a ton less toxic if my enemy Leblanc would stop going bot killing my ADC and then my ADC flaming me after I pinged mia, and pushed the mid turret to deny xp and gold.

Phuc Dat Bich2 votes

i have say it before and i have say it again

The report System create more toxicity than removing it

I play the game for years too i was even playing in N.A from E.U when E.U servers was nothing and the N.A servers was having like 20k max players

Back then and before the report system was on there was like 0% toxicity i was playing like 10-20 games and i was having like 1 toxic player that wasent even a total piece of shit just salty

But now when something happen the smallest thing

"Report player Y for X reason"

The "Player Y" would respond by attacking the other person i have too many games in my years that i play this game and i can assure you a verbal fight start when someone throw the "Report the Y for X" THEN A SHITSTORM start

But riot dosent want to admit that

kaltenashes2 votes

i still miss the s1 ruckus

the duo top,

adc in mid Sivir MissFortune Ashe was so common,

we went to lane with summoner 3 summoner 14 and had a lvl 1 fight,

if said you'd be a jungler people would dodge the match

the bugs, they were so funny

and my turret killer alistar =D

Kouga2 votes

Those were days, eh?

Ezreal had an AS debuff and a team-wide heal

Stacking Sunfire Capes on Garen and watching the enemy burn.

Taking Jax or Morde into a 1v2 top lane and knowing you were gonna win it.

And yeah I had totally forgotten about the level 1 fights. Waiting in the bottom brush for the enemy to come into lane..

SirHeavyScrotum2 votes

I think that the reason the snowballing results in the toxicity so much more than it used to is if one solo lane loses hard, the opponent is pushing an inhib at 11 minutes. There's no coming back from that shit. And the thing about that is that everyone knows who's fault it is, and there is nothing any other lane could have done because by the time they could roam often times the lane is already lost. When their Darius is taking your inhib at 11 minutes, you know your top laner lost you the game. And that's pretty inducive to toxicity.

OnlyGragasOnlyGG1 votes

Bullcrap talk, haven't encountered much toxicness, and the meta can easily be broken (playing Gragas in every role) and still getting good results despite what the elo is. I accept that games are more snowbally, but however I've still had enough much games where the losing team was able to comeback.

Clown Apocalypse3 votes

The meta can be broken, it's how people react when you try to break it that's the problem. I've had people say oh youre going adc kennen, i'm not supporting you then and proceed to ruin any chance I had in farming bot lane. Or people in other lanes feed and say it doesn't matter we got kennen adc or shaco support so we were going to lose anyways.. It's like they tilt before the game starts because Riot has it engraved in everyones brain that you have to play certain people in certain places or not at all, unless someone in the LCS does it. So while the meta isn't enforced, people still try to enforce it and when you break it you better be prepared for someone to go apeshit 50% of the time. Funny thing is when people just say strange pick but whatever, by the end of the game they are usually like new meta shaco supp. When my adc is just a salty peanut......we lose lane everytime. Guy tells me I can't adc with a shaco support.....I'm like you can't adc then.

As far as gragas goes....I used to bust him out as support occasionally before they even changed his kit. I like the jolly fat man. I might break him back out this season.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Can we stop calling this "New League"? Its the preseason. There Is no garentee that its going to be in the same in a while.

ApexInTheCircle5 votes

{quoted}

Can we stop calling this "New League"? Its the preseason. There Is no garentee that its going to be in the same in a while.

I'm not speaking of preseason, I'm talking about since I started playing and it's evolution into what it is now.

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