What disgusts me about pure supports now is that they literally serve one purpose:

FCJAAAAGOOOO··2 votes·1,158 views

to keep marksmen viable. They don't go to other lanes unless they're over-the-top busted like Lulu Rakan, and even if they do they're nerfed or reworked back into submisison. ALL they do is disengage for their marksman.

Marksmen should not need that level of handholding to be relevant without breaking the game or else they're going to CONTINUE to be:

1.) extremely hard to balance ( out of 19 marksmen, 9 seasons in, Lucian Kaisa and possibly sustainky Draven are better than everyone) 2.) extremely unhealthy for the game when they make it to lategame (see at least two of the champions above + the likes of Kalista whenever she's remotely viable), and 3.) extremely vulnerable to every honestly equally unhealthy assassin which I really don't need to list, I promise, keeping their most unhealthy playstyle viable as well.

If their WR drops without pure supports being so good at defending them, buff their scaling defenses a bit, but NOT THEIR OFFENSE. Stop forcing DPS to be the cornerstone of their viability, Riot, because for this whole entire season it has dictated the meta and it has been disgusting.

13 Comments

Death by Glamour2 votes

they don't go to other lanes because they were nerfed for going to other lanes

mid janna/taric/soraka ages ago

top alistar a few seasons ago

Dynikus2 votes

I'm not entirely sure what your complaint is. Are you complaining that ADCs aren't independent enough? Are you complaining that supports are supporting? That ADCs can carry a game?

FCJAAAAGOOOO1 votes

That they have to be least like a marksman in order to carry a game, and that the supports further promote that.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

{quoted}

That they have to be least like a marksman in order to carry a game, and that the supports further promote that.

So... what? You are complaining because supports are doing what they are supposed to be doing? Which is supporting their team? Like I don't get what is the issue here is.

FCJAAAAGOOOO1 votes

That marksmen aren't remotely allowed to be marksmen in order to be successful.

hi ìm groot2 votes

{quoted}

That marksmen aren't remotely allowed to be marksmen in order to be successful.

This is very true. There's no longer any realistic way to just kite out threats. And if no one on your team is there to frontline/peel for you, than a marksman is basically a hard hitting cannon minion.

Doge20201 votes

I mean a Vayne has her E, Q and R to help her reposition and kite a target/multiple targets.

Ashe can (up to a point) CC and kite an enemy with her passive and her R

hi ìm groot2 votes

{quoted}

I mean a Vayne has her E, Q and R to help her reposition and kite a target/multiple targets.

Ashe can (up to a point) CC and kite an enemy with her passive and her R

Vayne is slightly better suited at dealing with meleers because her design weakness is suppose to be long range. But even she has the problem of most meleers only need to hit her once right now, and probably have more than one CD to get onto her. Ashe cannot realistically kite anymore with her passive. Just about any of the champs that would be diving an ADC in a fight can get to her without her teams help. Only thing she could kite would be old school bruisers. Anyone with a dash will get on her easily.

Doge20201 votes

Yeah sadly Ashe is only good with kiting those without dashes or have their dashes on very long cooldowns. But in an ideal situation you could cast R after the dashing champ uses their dash to get to you and kite from there.

Oh yeah and your W also helps with kiting when you aren’t in range to auto attack and you aren’t skilled enough or don’t have the time to auto attack and start running again.

I agree, Ashe and Vayne can kite but they have some really clear weaknesses that can be used to jump on them, prevent them from kiting and kill them.

hi ìm groot1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah sadly Ashe is only good with kiting those without dashes or have their dashes on very long cooldowns. But in an ideal situation you could cast R after the dashing champ uses their dash to get to you and kite from there.

Oh yeah and your W also helps with kiting when you aren’t in range to auto attack and you aren’t skilled enough or don’t have the time to auto attack and start running again.

I agree, Ashe and Vayne can kite but they have some really clear weaknesses that can be used to jump on them, prevent them from kiting and kill them.

All the ADC's are like that. Shit I was twitch in one game and was fed af, and a 1/3/1 shaco jg could pop out of Q, auto, ignite, E and I was dead from 100-0. Was 0 counterplay, not even flash could have saved me. Like the OP said, only way I would have been a viable champ in that game was if my support was keeping me alive.

Doge20201 votes

Yeah I get what you are saying.

I think that marksmen can be viable solo up to a certain point, after that point they become even more affective when they have somebody supporting the marksmen. One example is Kai’sa: she can work mid lane as full AP or even as her regular on hit build. But to reach full potential with her R and make it easier for her to reach the fight, she needs somebody there to CC a target and start her passive stacks so she can instantly R, join the fight and proc the rest of her passive stacks.

hi ìm groot1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I get what you are saying.

I think that marksmen can be viable solo up to a certain point, after that point they become even more affective when they have somebody supporting the marksmen. One example is Kai’sa: she can work mid lane as full AP or even as her regular on hit build. But to reach full potential with her R and make it easier for her to reach the fight, she needs somebody there to CC a target and start her passive stacks so she can instantly R, join the fight and proc the rest of her passive stacks.

Kaisa feels like she was basically designed for this shit. I feel like she's one of the only actual viable adc's and the only thing driving her w/r down from being well above the other adc's, is simply the irrelevance of the role itself. As strong as she is as an ADC she still has to scale and your average S8 game won't give you that chance unless you won your lane.

But in that situation like I gave earlier she would have been one of the only adc's with any counterplay, and honestly it's bullshit. She'd just have to E to invis during the auto before the E, then auto ult, and shaco would have no way to get back on her and she'd have a shield to absorb the E and ignite. This tool can be used both as a engage from long range, a repositioning tool, or self peel, WITH a shield, is pretty over the top for an adc. It was like riot realized how much mobility they gave meleers so they gave their new adc an equally bullshit kit that even their newer dash champs couldnt stick on as a way to balance out the roles?

Doge20201 votes

“All they do is disengage for their marksman” brother have you even heard of Leona, Blitz and pyke? They are all-in champs that support their marksmen by picking off a target that is out of position or CC chaining a key target so their team can easily get the advantage from a free kill. These three are overall very bad at disengaging and peeling for their marksmen. They can POTENTIALLY lock down an assassin, but they can’t really heal the marksmen because of their kits, or lock down the assassin if he/she bursts down the marksman and instantly gets away before the tank supp can react. (there might be other supps like the three I mentioned but at the time of writing this I can’t think of any more)

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