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Regarding ADCs and the game - Season 8 Fixes/Suggestions

Elohaven··1 votes·1,662 views

Right now, ADCs are the weakest class with crit if they can't use rageblade. They scale significantly slower but their scaling is AT THE RIGHT TIME SLOT. At 30-35 minutes, like Season 7 before crit buffs, ADCs are scaling but the trade off isn't that great. They need indirect buffs but let me list out the issues and then dive to my thoughts.

Since towers are so weak and games are shorter with damage so high, ADCs aren't needed for their niche. (By ADCs, I mean the classic marksmen who filled the role for so long). You don't really need a Tristana or Jinx or Quinn to mow down towers. You can easily take down 2 towers in five minutes if they're unattended to with one item.

Crit ADCs aren't viable because their jobs have been taken away from them by runes, bruisers, and game length.

First, Conqueror offers true damage which tears through tanks like butter. Without tanks, ADCs aren't necessary. Bruisers/toplaners do their tank shredding job. I honestly haven't seen a Lord DOminik's built in a single game because nobody needs a tank/wants one. A bruiser can survive just as long while dishing out burst damage to squishies. With the burst, teams don't really need to worry about DPS because they can easily rotate damage to the other targets with the 5v4 advantage. My games as Irelia ADC and Yasuo ADC made me realize it's not that important anymore since bruiser ADCs are also innately tankier now as well.

Secondly, ADCs are no longer needed to take towers as I said before. Towers are weak and basically anyone can nuke them. Just look at a Veigar at 20 minutes with on auto attack. He can take a tower as fast as an ADC with the scaling now - if not faster despite the attack speed difference.

Third, crit ADCs take too long to scale with current game length. And say they are allowed to scale, the trade off is bad. The amount of damage they offer is still mediocre compared to the burst everyone else has. Despite this, crit ADCs don't need buffs directly though. Hear me out below.

Fortunately, I have several answers to these issues which I believe is fair. First, I advocate for bruisers/melee in botlane like Irelia/Yasuo. It's fresh. I hate the same ADCs. I also want mages. However, they shouldn't completely take a marksmen's job. By the way, marksmen need to know they can build defensive tanky items now - it's a huge difference but anyways:

  • Buff towers by game length

  • By increasing tower armor by game length, you allow bruisers/melee ADCs to be able to show their burst/dominance early and mid-game. Towers do this, but health and armor should have a significant increase.

  • Do not increase magic resistance. They usually attack slow and by the time they're nuking towers it's mid to late game.

  • This allows marksmen to be great tower shredding machines for mid to late with bruisers still being able to be viable early to mid.

  • Buff RFC for this change to be a better siegeing tool.

  • Convert Conqueror from true damage to flat AD or % based AD increase

  • I think there's too much available true damage. It should only be available through kits in my opinion. Even true damage IE is fustrating but the scaling makes it balanced. There's honestly no reason for Lord Dominik's with true damage it's cost efficient. Flat AD allows melee ADCs to need it as an item against tanky compositions.

  • Flat AD is better against squishies/marksmen.

  • Marksmen get their DPS/tank-shred job up

  • Stops edge cases like Yi from abusing

  • Fairer for tanks as champions to gain viability (Ornn, Poppy, Sejuani)

Optional Suggestion:

  • Remove 15% true damage from IE and allow it the new passive below
  • With every X% of critical strike chance, gain X% critical strike damage on your auto-attacks up to 200%
    • This allows for marksmen DPS, late-game strength, stops the 2-item burst spike still, helps Yasuo out
    • Removes true damage creep and is fairer for tanks with Randuins Omen
    • Still requires a lot of time to get the gold to ramp up
    • Possible Line of Power: 1 Zeal item+IE = 180% Crit Dmg per auto while 2 zeal item+IE=200% Crit Dmg per auto
    • Or even better than the above! Make it 3 crit/zeal items required for 200% and 180% for 2.
    • If 200% is too much still with 2 zeal items, then make the max 180% as it retains the goal of reducing crit-squishy damage but I believe 200% is good in this case since it'll be so late in the game where ADCs should be high priority targets due to their damage with this change I suggested
    • If they have 3 zeal items and the new IE, they're pretty glass cannon as they only have 1 defensive slot so I believe the damage is warranted

These changes indirectly buff crit ADCs as they extend game length.

12 Comments

Mordepool3 votes

Just fought a jhin Toplane as a Melee. Nope they are still OP

Elohaven2 votes

Jhin is an outlier as Riot literally made Stormrazor for him.

Face a Jinx, Caitlyn, Xayah toplane. One game against a meta champion doesn't make your point valid.

Mordepool1 votes

You list 3 ranged champions all who are meta. I see a pattern. I see a problem

Elohaven1 votes

They all have winrates less than 48% compared to other ADCs and Caitlyn has one of the worst winrates.

You're telling me I just named 3 meta champions when their winrate delta per team comp is working against you?

Konrad Curze2 votes

The point of them changing the items is to free up the map to be more free instead of having a mandatory class of champions. It increases position diversity. They didn't want a game where crit is a mandatory stat. There is Cleaver + Essence Reaver Lucian which murders bruisers, tanks, and assassins. There is Lethality MF which murders Squishies (and tank if you get Cleaver). There is the double tear Ezreal with Tri/Gauntlet which has good mobility and tankiness. Regular crit Jhin, AP Kai'Sa, regular crit Kalista. There are plenty of options that aren't toxic to the game and the other players playing it. Also side note, it's not difficult to stall a game with vision control which allows hypercarries to come online.

Elohaven1 votes

There's clear evidence games aren't being stalled to that point though. Thus you have these meta picks of Jhin, Kai'Sa, Ezreal, and Lucian. Jhin and Lucian had items reworked specifically in their favor while Kai'Sa/Ezreal are literally meta picks due to their ability to abuse non-crit. MF only needs lethality - not crit.

I'm not saying buff ADCs. I'm saying give crit ADCs more option to be viable and give them more late-game significance. Right now, I'd rather have a Yasuo ADC over Jinx because he does the job faster, tears tanks, and can assassinate squishies while being tankier mid to late while also being an early game threat to ADCs.

Most games don't get to the point crit ADCs are needed.

Mordepool1 votes

That sounds like a Team Composition problem. Not a Weakness on the part of the Crit ADC

Elohaven1 votes

There's no team composition I created or suggested. That argument is null.

Xayah has a 10% pickrate but still <48% winrate. Caitlyn 9% but < 47% winrate.

Mordepool1 votes

Those are still remarkably high pickrates. People must still believe they are powerful. Which they are.

FYI. I have mained a champ with an average winrate of 46%. Not once did he receive a buff for 2 years. You can honestly be quiet those marksmen are doing fine. They just aren't Freelo anymore and that's probably what your complaint is actually about

Konrad Curze1 votes

{quoted}

There's clear evidence games aren't being stalled to that point though. Thus you have these meta picks of Jhin, Kai'Sa, Ezreal, and Lucian. Jhin and Lucian had items reworked specifically in their favor while Kai'Sa/Ezreal are literally meta picks due to their ability to abuse non-crit. MF only needs lethality - not crit.

I'm not saying buff ADCs. I'm saying give crit ADCs more option to be viable and give them more late-game significance. Right now, I'd rather have a Yasuo ADC over Jinx because he does the job faster, tears tanks, and can assassinate squishies while being tankier mid to late while also being an early game threat to ADCs.

Most games don't get to the point crit ADCs are needed.

Exactly, crit ADC's are meant to scale HARD which they do. They work the same way that any other scaling champ does in any other lane. If you are going to pick a crit ADC then you have to play towards your win condition which IS scaling. Knowingly going into a game playing a crit ADC without the intention of scaling is pointless.

AmonTheFallen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Konrad Curze,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FOULi08d,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-13T05:57:46.682+0000)

The point of them changing the items is to free up the map to be more free instead of having a mandatory class of champions. It increases position diversity. They didn't want a game where crit is a mandatory stat. There is Cleaver + Essence Reaver Lucian which murders bruisers, tanks, and assassins. There is Lethality MF which murders Squishies (and tank if you get Cleaver). There is the double tear Ezreal with Tri/Gauntlet which has good mobility and tankiness. Regular crit Jhin, AP Kai'Sa, regular crit Kalista. There are plenty of options that aren't toxic to the game and the other players playing it. Also side note, it's not difficult to stall a game with vision control which allows hypercarries to come online.

You have no idea how the game works.

Mordepool1 votes

Ranged need to be brought down further. Specifically thier "Range".
To safe to reliable to low skill To little counterplay

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