Unpopular Opinion: These Xin Zhao buffs aren't as scary as we are giving them credit for.

l Helios l··4 votes·1,243 views
1/27 PBE Update

Xin Zhao Battle Cry (W) [NEW EFFECT] Passive heal now also has a .3 bonus AD ratio. [NEW EFFECT] Passive now also includes " and critically strikes his target for 60/70/80/90/100% additional damage."] Audacious Charge (E) cooldown lowered to 12 seconds at all ranks from 14/13/12/11/10

I've taken the liberty of listing the changes so you don't have to open the link unless you want verification.

Now then, I know this will not be received well, and that's okay. I think that people are taking these changes, reading them once, and saying "WTF is this!?!?!?!"

But let's stop for a second and really consider what these changes are doing.

Battle Cry (W) "[New Effect] Passive heal now also has a .3 [(30%)] bonus AD ratio"

Now, let's analyze this for a second. It is 100% a buff. No argument there whatsoever. But how significant is it is the question. Now, what needs to be ensured is that this is understood as a buff to the HEAL, not a damage buff. The other thing is that this is a buff that gives a ratio of the BONUS AD, not TOTAL. So, let's assume we have a level 18 full build Xin Zhao who follows the current highest win rate build. I do this for argument sake because build paths are weird sometimes. We've all seen the full AD Nami mains. The highest win rate build for Xin Zhao currently gives no bonus AD for him whatsoever via runes. Attack speed marks, quints, and glyphs, and armor yellows. No bonuses can be gained from masteries either; only overall damage dealt boosts. Okay, so at this point, that 30% bonus AD ratio = 0 bonus health gained. Now, let's factor in the most common build path, which is sated devourer via skirmisher's sabre, guinsoo's rageblade, merc treads, dead man's plate, spirit visage, and trinity force. Add in the AD you get from a fully stacked rageblade (30 AD base + 3 AD per stack x 8 total stacks = 24 AD from fully stacked + 30 AD base = 54 total AD possible) along with the AD from your trinity force (25 AD), and you get a total of 55 bonus AD when unstacked and 79 bonus AD when fully stacked. So, let's take 30% of that amount (.3 x 55 and .3 x 79), which give us 16.5 bonus health on the heal when unstacked and 23.7 bonus health on the heal when fully stacked. So, with these changes and the current build path for runes, masteries, and items, Xin gains less than 25 bonus health from his heal at the absolute maximum per heal. Is that significant? Maybe, but very often fights do not come down to what is often referred to as "League of 10 HP." Very often, fights are blow outs or very one-sided. In long drawn out fights, this will allow Xin to possibly survive longer and do his job (dive carries and try to kill them) better. If this does end up being significant, this will makes Executioner's and Mortal Reminder (and Morellonomicon) a more critical buy against him, reducing his heal to 40% of that (.4 x 16.5 and .4 x 23.7), which makes him heal only 6.6 and 9.48 health for unstacked and stacked respectively.

The second addition to the (W) [NEW EFFECT] Passive now also includes " and critically strikes his target for 60/70/80/90/100% additional damage."]

I can see the horror on the your virtual faces right now. Clearly a buff. 100%, no discussion. What I would consider the more significant buff of the two. Obviously, this synergies well with his current attack speed and devourer build path. This also has nice synergy with is Q. This gives Xin better damage when the 3rd (2nd for sated) auto hits, but that's all it gives. Keep in mind that Xin, as we have seen, doesn't build any raw attack damage currently (by highest win rate percentage). The maximum possible attack damage he can gain is 79 at a fully stacked Guinsoo's. Factor that into his damage at level 18 (a base of 114 with the 79 added would be 193 AD), a fully leveled 3rd (2nd if sated) W will hit for 193 + 193 x 1.0 = 386 damage before resistances. Keeping in mind that Xin will reduce the armor of his target by 15% due to his passive, this can potentially offer a nice buff in damage, if he can trigger the 3rd auto (2nd if he is sated). This is the only change I can even remotely see as being a problem, but even then, I don't think it will be that horrible due to reasons that will be listed below. I have to form the discussion this way because all these changes work together and must be considered as such.

That seems to be the thing about Xin with these buffs: Xin MUST trigger the third auto (2nd for sated) for any of this to even matter. The Xin player is being rewarded for doing this correctly, but gains nothing and loses out on the heal and bonus damage for failing.

The only change to the (E) Audacious Charge (E) cooldown lowered to 12 seconds at all ranks from 14/13/12/11/10

I don't fully understand why the word "lowered" is used because it's not lowered, it's changed; there is a difference. Sure the cooldown is lowered to 12 for rank 1 and 2, which is a reduction, but it's the same as it is currently at rank 3 and actually higher at rank 4 and 5. This is a buff to Xin's early game but a nerf to his mid/late game, based on when the Xin maxes his (E), which currently is first max according to the highest win percentage. This is most likely due to offering a stronger slow (25%/30%/35%/40%/45%) along with a lower cooldown (currently) for the opportunity to gap close more often. As many players can testify, 2 seconds can be an eternity in an intense game of League. This (the gap closing aspect) is a key point I'll bring up later. Xin Zhao's current win rate tends to rise as the game's length increases, which can potentially indicate that his early game is not where he shines brightest. This is supportable and refutable; Xin has a good early game due to his clears, sustain in the jungle, and decent ganks early game. However, Xin also has a decent late game due to having a sated devourer and the on hit heal he has coupled with a Guinsoo's. What is happening in this change is a shift of the champion's power from the late game to the early game, giving him more mobility to use early and less to use late game. This is balanced by the late game nature of the first (W) change with his heal and the synergy it offers with sated devourer and his current build path.

Here's the thing though: the problem that Xin Zhao has always had remains. Xin Zhao is very easily kited when his dash (E) is on cooldown, which is now more often late game. Without flash (or ghost, I haven't forgotten about you), he is unable to gap close whatsoever if his charge is down. Two of the three changes are buffs that only matter if Xin can trigger his autos, which is something a carry wouldn't want to happen anyway. There is more reason now to want to kite Xin than there was before. He now has a slightly stronger heal and more damage if he can get to and actual stick to carries. But he has to be able to stick, which won't be that easy since he now has a longer cooldown on his (E) late game. And that's the thing, if his cooldown had remained as low as it was before the change, this would be broken, primarily because he can lower it by three seconds with his Q's (assuming all 3 [2 for sated] hit). This had the potential to put his gap closer at a 7 second cooldown, before CDR is factored in (after it would be 4.2 seconds at 40% CDR). Now, his gap closer can only go to 9 seconds, again CDR not factored in yet (after it would be 5.4 at 40% CDR). Assuming whoever Xin (E)'s gets away (dashes, flashes, support/tank/self peels, etc.) before he triggers a Q hit, he has to wait 12 seconds (before CDR, 7.2 seconds after at 40%) now before he can catch up again, as opposed to 10 (before CDR, 6 seconds after at 40%) before. Even at max CDR, he still has to wait over a second to do anything if a carry escapes from him.

So overall, these changes are clearly rewards to Xin for sticking and continually auto-ing, but he has to make a tradeoff with how often he can actually get to someone. Is this an even trade-off? I'm not sure. I do think it has the potential make Xin more damage-focused later in the game, but it hasn't done anything to change what he is actually weak at: sticking to people. It's done nothing more, IMO, than accentuating his strengths and make his weakness that much more profound. Profound enough? That is the part that can be debated. Is he going to be broken? Maybe, but unlikely. I do think he will be a more solid pick against highly immobile carries or teams with low peel, but he will suffer heavily against teams with mobile carries or high peel.

Will any of this alter his build path? Odds are high that it may encourage a lot more variability. I could see more people trying to take advantage of the encouragement to build raw AD, but I question as to what items would be wise to build. Xin has always benefited from AS more than AD (because of his ratios), so only time will tell as to whether or not this will change.

Tl;dr -> Overall, I think it's worth noting that the buffs to his strengths are met with a decent nerf to his weakness. I think it will at the very least force teams to focus on peeling him much more often and force the Xin player to focus on when and how he engages.

Let me know your thoughts! Thanks for reading!

12 Comments

TehNACHO6 votes

I don't think the problem is that the absolute value of these buffs are small or not. The problem is that Xin Zhao is already relatively well off right now. He's a champion that teeters on the edge of viability to uselessness due to the overwhelming simplicity of his kit. This makes him reliant largely on stat checking people and often by very small margins. A buff like this is dangerous because when you give a champion ultra reliant on stats even more stats to work with, it becomes harder to put them down as they just got a lot better at one of the few ways they interact with the rest of the game.

l Helios l1 votes

I totally understand that. That was always the problem with old Gangplank in a sense. I agree that Xin was okay in a sense that he did his job relatively well given certain parameters of the game he was in, but there was room for improvement. I do question whether this was the correct avenue to take, but I also just want people to understand that it's not the second coming of Kassadin.

My main point was just that Xin's weakness of being kited easily was made more profound and encouraged to take advantage of while his strength of hitting people in the face a hundred times was made more profound in the same manner.

I think one aspect of it is that Xin is a champion from a much older era and would need touch-ups to be truly differentiated from other AA based champs and to cure the "ball of stats" problem.

I'm also naturally a skeptic due to my experiences with things in League and life in general, so I tend to approach things with a very "But is it?" attitude. So forgive me for that.

Rebonack1 votes

The added AD ratio on his W may very well be enough to let Xin start his romp Top Lane with standard AD gear and start ruining people's day right from the gate. I'm mostly worried about how silly he's going to be over on the Crystal Scar given that I'm one of the weird people who actually plays that map. He can already be obnoxious to deal with, and boosting his healing doesn't help. Boosting his damage output by approximately 33% doesn't help, either.

I foresee him going Yomama's Ghostblade into Cleaver, followed by mitigation gear to indirectly buff the heal. Assassin Xin might pop up, too. But that's slightly easier to deal with.

l Helios l1 votes

No hate given to Scar players. You'll have to forgive me as I don't know anything on it virtually at all.

I could see ghostblade to a degree, but you sacrifice a lot of tank stats or attack speed for it in favor of armor pen, which Xin already has a decent amount of built into his kit. Cleaver would make the most sense out of every item I can think of since it is a good neutral buy for most top laners, plus it offers a flat percent of total armor shred vs. just a flat amount. However, the attack speed issue still applies to him; is it worth sacrifice attack speed for other stats? Maybe, but idk. I'm not on board just yet.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

No hate given to Scar players. You'll have to forgive me as I don't know anything on it virtually at all.

I could see ghostblade to a degree, but you sacrifice a lot of tank stats or attack speed for it in favor of armor pen, which Xin already has a decent amount of built into his kit. Cleaver would make the most sense out of every item I can think of since it is a good neutral buy for most top laners, plus it offers a flat percent of total armor shred vs. just a flat amount. However, the attack speed issue still applies to him; is it worth sacrifice attack speed for other stats? Maybe, but idk. I'm not on board just yet.

I'm so glad you aren't one of those 'what's Dominion?' assholes.

Ghostblade's active gives a hefty chunk of attack speed and its flat armor pen gets amplified by any source of percentile armor pen (which Xin has). Scar is more focused on smaller skirmishes rather than full-on 5v5 team fights, so a big boost of attack speed for six seconds is much more powerful there than it is on Rift (though its pretty strong on Rift, too).

's actually part of the reason why Kog is amazing on Scar but meh on Rift. Kog can usually burn down two people with his W (maybe three if positioning is just right) before it gives up the ghost. A 4v4 on Scar is somewhat uncommon, save for Windmill fights. 5v5s almost never happen. So by the time Kog's W runs out, so have his targets.

Same deal with Xin and Ghostblade. By the time the active wears off, everyone is dead.

l Helios l1 votes

I did forget that aspect of Ghostblade active, mb. I could see it in that case moreso than other items.

I can't speak from a Dominion perspective, so I'll defer to what you explain to me. I could see in small skirmishes the power that this can offer Xin, but I tend to focus (perhaps unfairly) on larger team fights, mostly due to my affiliation with SR and watching LCS a lot.

My main concern is that people are losing their minds over this and I'm just like, "Maybe, maybe not."

I'm willing to hold off to actually see how stupid he is until I get face rolled by one.

Meep Man1 votes

I HAVE TO KNOW, will the critical attack ever third attack actually function with Devourer? This is due to, Im pretty sure, the Devourer attack being a separate attack and if it;'s every third attack, being the Devourer attack, would it critical strike or would it negate it since the Devourer attack can't crit since there is nothing to critical strike.

l Helios l1 votes

I'd assume so. As the effect reads, the critical is treated as a sort of on hit effect that translates into a crit. I think it will work like an Aatrox W in how it's treated as a counter up until the 3rd stack that triggers the effect.

If that's wrong, the buff is not nearly as significant as we may have suspected.

AhhShucks1 votes

So..... Devourer creates phantom "attacks" that only do on hit effects. Is this going to cause Xin's free crit to periodically fall on an "attack" that isn't doing any actual attack damage?

l Helios l1 votes

Again I'm not positive. I'll test it later today. I'd assume it would just be similar to Aatrox W or Vayne W. Technically that functionality would be the same as the AD damage for a Vayne W proc.

AhhShucks1 votes

Aatrox W and vayne W are actual on hit effects. A crit is an attack modifier. If the crit can fall on phantom attacks it would be totally wasted where Aatrox and Vayne both get the effect of their on hit even if it's not doing any attack damage.

l Helios l1 votes

See, I wanna say I remember this issue before with some other champion but I don't remember who. I'm not sure what the interaction is, but it would be a lack of synergy if Xin didn't trigger the crit, which may be an oversight or intentional. I'll get back to this a little later when I'm free to actually sit down and test it.

Again, worst case scenario is Xin still has to do it on every 3 autos instead of 2.

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