Will ryze be getting nerfed next patch?

Buttigieg 2020·Jun 6, 2015·5 votes·2,087 views

I was wondering if ryze would be getting nerfed in patch 5.11

I can't find any changes on surrender at 20 or lol news.

29 Comments

ChoGathsSonJun 6, 20155 votes

He needs to be hotfixed

Buttigieg 2020Jun 6, 20157 votes

He isn't that bad. After your 5th death you can buy item 3111 !

ChoGathsSonJun 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He isn't that bad. After your 5th death you can buy !

lol

DontBanMeImDrunkJun 6, 20152 votes

hes not op

ChoGathsSonJun 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

hes not op

you're drunk

MrBuffingtonJun 6, 20152 votes

It's possible they already missed the window for patch 5.11. I think they're wrapping everything up atm, though it's possible for something to come out on Monday; it really isn't a balance change that needs much testing, since it's pretty overtuned. If not 5.11, definitely 5.12; I don't really think they hot-fix things unless it's a gamebreaking bug (and no, perma-snare is not a bug, it's just OP). It's also possible it's one of those balance changes they don't need to put on PBE, since it's just clearly overtuned, not something they really need feedback on.

Buttigieg 2020Jun 6, 20151 votes

But wouldn't they want feedback on the change they do to ryze? What if it is a complete gut, I'm pretty sure if he is going to be fixed he would have been by now.

MrBuffingtonJun 6, 20151 votes

PBE isn't really used for balance feedback; the players are all over the place in terms of skill level (a player who's bronze in live servers could be diamond on PBE, just because there aren't as many players). Riot has internal play testers who are usually high elo players (some former pros, etc) which they use to gauge balance; this is why not every balance change that comes with the patch was on PBE before (though many are).

I imagine they won't do much besides tweak some of his numbers to help ease the permasnare thing (maybe reduce the snare duration at later levels, tone back the passive duration buff they gave him last patch, increase mana cost on his W so it isn't as spammable early, or hit the damage a bit so W max provides less effective damage, though probably not more than 1-2 of these, if they do any of these at all). They'll probably be looking into whether his kit needs larger changes for a future patch, but just for curbing this abuse case, I don't think PBE testing is necessary; it feels like they just need to tweak one of his numbers down a touch.

As far as I know, this permasnare thing has only been floating around solo-q for a few days now, and brought in to pro play late this week; pretty much every Ryze player I saw up until a few days ago still maxed Q first. Again, it might be a touch late to make it into this patch cycle, so it's also possible they might have to wait until 5.12 to see this change, but it's somewhat pressing and I don't think the changes are going to be drastic, just minor number tuning, so they might be able to squeeze something in 5.11. I guess we'll see.

FluffehPoroJun 6, 20152 votes

Hes not really that strong unless ur in Diamond. And lets be honest most of the league players here are in Bronze and Silver.

DedriusJun 6, 20151 votes

I'm guessing he will be hotfixed but if not then he will definitely be nerfed next patch.

Buttigieg 2020Jun 6, 20151 votes

But the pbe cycle is done and I thought a ryze nerf would be mentioned in PBE. If he was going to be hot fixed then he would have been 3 days ago. I'm kinda confused whether they are waiting to nerf him in 5.12 or doing a quick unmentioned nerf in 5.11.

ErockandrollJun 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But the pbe cycle is done and I thought a ryze nerf would be mentioned in PBE. If he was going to be hot fixed then he would have been 3 days ago. I'm kinda confused whether they are waiting to nerf him in 5.12 or doing a quick unmentioned nerf in 5.11.

I don't think that how things work. I don't think they just hot fix general balance changes. It's applied more towards bugs.

Riot is probably collecting data and deciding exactly how to approach this. I doubt they will revert the duration nerfs, that was a decent QoL buff that makes him fun to play. Though the will probably get rid of the perma root.

atomicwitJun 6, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I'm guessing he will be hotfixed but if not then he will definitely be nerfed next patch.

Hotfixes are for game-breaking bugs not a champion that may be too strong.

People are tunneling on Ryze's immense skirmishing + dueling power with full stacks, mana and ult. but ignoring everything else that other champions have on him (high cc, tankiness, engage, gap closers etc.).

I also see too many people letting Ryze engage on them instead of surprising him in the windows where he's weak. If Ryze goes on you, you can bet that it will be when he's close to supercharged, with ult. and enough mana to kill you. I think people play horribly vs him even if he's too strong. Would you sit there and bait a full Fury Tryndamere with ult.? Then why do you do it vs a 4 stack Ryze?

People just remember getting owned and see him getting kills so they think he's incredibly broken. AP Tristana could 100-0 anyone but a tank in seconds too but she was never OP. Her winrate was always pretty garbage despite a very high KDA. Damage is only one component of a champion's success. For example, Ashe is sitting at the #1 winrate in Diamond with >55% but people don't whine as much about her merely because they don't get burst instantly. However, her kit as a whole is insanely potent even if she doesn't have the highest damage of ADCs.

His winrate isn't that impressive until you get to Diamond ELO (53% there) and that's only #9 for the game. That drops to 50% if the game goes past 35-min. Again, I think he's strongest early-mid game despite the "late game" label that gets thrown on him.

ChoGathsSonJun 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Hotfixes are for game-breaking bugs not a champion that may be too strong...

Yeah no, they've hotfixed champions before for being retardedly broken, most recently was Zyra back in season 2 just a few short days after her release. Then Botrk got reworked in season 3 and had to be hotfixed.

They don't need to do anything major, just hotfix his perma snaring

atomicwitJun 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah no, they've hotfixed champions before for being retardedly broken, most recently was Zyra back in season 2 just a few short days after her release. Then Botrk got reworked in season 3 and had to be hotfixed.

They don't need to do anything major, just hotfix his perma snaring

That's very different. Those were new releases with clearly unexpected consequences. Ryze got improvements but he isn't exactly new. They were aware of how his CDs work with the passive to allow multiple snares etc. None of what he does is surprising and like I said, his winrate isn't dominant enough to be hotfixed by any measure. Pre-nerf 60% winrate WW when Devourer didn't suck didn't even get hotfixed.

DedriusJun 6, 20151 votes

Hotfixes can be used for urgent balancing if they feel the scenario requires it and looking at ryze being 100% pick/ban in LCS since his buff this may be something they feel they need to fix.

atomicwitJun 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Hotfixes can be used for urgent balancing if they feel the scenario requires it and looking at ryze being 100% pick/ban in LCS since his buff this may be something they feel they need to fix.

That isn't true though. He has been banned and picked a lot but some teams let him through on purpose. Even just now Gravity beat C9's Ryze pretty hard. As I said, no objective data currently points to Ryze being as broken as you think. This even applies to Diamond+ games where his winrate is #9 and he drops to 50% when games go really late. People are merely tunneling on his strengths like dueling/skirmishing.

DedriusJun 6, 20151 votes

Last week in EU LCS he was 100% pick/ban.

Yes gravity beat C9's ryze but that was because gravity outplayed C9 as a team rather than Ryze losing in a normal lane. In solo queue most teams do not have the coordination that LCS teams have to successfully lane swap to be able to shut down ryze as they did in that game. In a solo top scenario Ryze is very overtuned, any high elo player will agree with that and it can be seen by watching a lot of high elo streamers (wingsofdeath brings up how broken he is all the time when he plays him, dyrus has said it, doublelift has said it)

In my games Ryze is pretty much a perma pick/ban because no top laner can really deal with the ryze if they understand his combo.

atomicwitJun 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Last week in EU LCS he was 100% pick/ban.

Yes gravity beat C9's ryze but that was because gravity outplayed C9 as a team rather than Ryze losing in a normal lane. In solo queue most teams do not have the coordination that LCS teams have to successfully lane swap to be able to shut down ryze as they did in that game. In a solo top scenario Ryze is very overtuned, any high elo player will agree with that and it can be seen by watching a lot of high elo streamers (wingsofdeath brings up how broken he is all the time when he plays him, dyrus has said it, doublelift has said it)

In my games Ryze is pretty much a perma pick/ban because no top laner can really deal with the ryze if they understand his combo.

If that is true instead of just appearing so strong because of his dueling ability, his winrate should be much higher than average. That is not the case yet even given his low pick-rate and tens of thousands of games.

There's a point where you have to look at facts not just feelings. If by the end of the patch cycle, Ryze will at least in Diamond+ have a much stronger than average performance, then there will be more basis. Right now, it seems more like a typical bandwagon scenario until we get more evidence. Even his late game winrate is merely average.

DedriusJun 6, 20151 votes

I agree more evidence will tell a better story, but even watching LCS today, if ryze is not banned he is first picked almost every time.

I believe his winrate is low because of all the "this champ is OP so I will win if i play him!" people playing him without understanding his combo and how to use the perma-snare he now has. There is not very accurate information on the last week or so on the pick rate/ban rate/win rate of ryze so when that starts to come out it will probably be easier to see.

This video sums it up pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ckIwozedAY

atomicwitJun 6, 20151 votes

You could make that sort of video highlighting the biggest strength of a champion for anyone. There are more Tryndamere, Vayne, Kalista etc. montages than you can count.

You say that his winrate is low because of people thinking he's OP and being clueless while picking him. However, his pick rate is actually very low so that doesn't make sense. If that were true, his pick rate wouldn't be 2%. It would be 20%. Moreover, people in Plat+, generally care more about their ranking and don't just randomly start playing the champion without knowledge.

DedriusJun 6, 20151 votes

I was kind of kidding with the video.

I think that information is also from the end of may (ended around the 26th or 27th from what I found anyways) and not from the last week or two. People in plat+ also do tend to play champions without knowledge a lot more often then you would think. Today I had someone who had like 600 games on quinn and decided to play katarina just because. I do this sometimes when I am bored of a champion I am more skilled at and decide to play a champion I find fun even if I am not great with them.

I do understand where you are coming from though so I suppose we will see in the next few weeks what will happen.

MohawkBirdJun 6, 20151 votes

[deleted]

JustMyBassCannonJun 6, 20151 votes

People got good.

Also, his passive/ultimate always last 6 seconds instead of 3/4/5/6 and 4/5/6 seconds.

ErockandrollJun 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

What happened to Ryze? It was not too long ago people were calling his rework a huge failure and he branded one of the lowest winrates in game. What happened?

The bigger buffs where big QoL buffs which increased the duration of his passive and ult to 6 seconds at all levels from 4/5/6. Something tells me this will stick, but ryze will get hit elsewhere.

MohawkBirdJun 6, 20151 votes

[deleted]

ErockandrollJun 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Isn't that an actual buff though? Not necessarily QoL?

What I meant is, It makes those abilities feel useful at all stages of the game. Ryzes kit surrounds his Passive, so his passive should feel good to use, regardless of how he scales. This is why I feel like Riot should look elsewhere for nerfs. (and not just revert the buffs)