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Does the game seem less strategic to you?

100HorsePower··142 votes·5,446 views

I dunno, it just seems that Riot have focused more and more on snowballing and flashy plays that they forget that League is fundamentally a STRATEGY game at its core. The problem is, there is only one real viable strategy at the moment, which is to gangbang botlane because botlane tower happens to be weaker then other towers.

One mistake dictates the entire flow of the game. But I think what is more maddening is when I see an ADC getting crushed and they somehow REFUSE to build any defense. ADC's have access to great items that allow them to gain resistances while not losing that much damage themselves (item 3156 is an example) and yet I see ADC's building the SAME WAY, pretty much every game.

League at the moment, feels more like a deathmatch then an actual game about strategy.

I suggested in one game that I go Karma support with a Yasuo top and smack about the enemy top laner until he screamed at the jungler for help. It drew the jungler up to top lane and did not allow them to do the usual gangbang in bot lane so our botlane was able to fight on even grounds with the enemy botlane and win through pure laning power. Yes, we sacrificed a jungle (I am a crap jungler anyway) but the strategy worked really well and we won the game because Yasuo got stupidly fed and I kept shielding him. (However, at the beginning, my team called me a "TROLL" until we actually started winning)

Why are people so against adapting to the current meta. Experiment, try new things. A wise man once said,

"The definition of madness is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"

If you have died in your lane, look at the scoreboard and CHANGE YOUR STRATEGY. Don't just blindly walk back into lane with your offensive only items and expect to win again.

94 Comments

Chalizard16 votes

It depends on your league, I have noticed that the higher you are the less people care what you pick unless you feed enemy like crazy. My last ranked with my friend was talon rengar bot and my teammates instead of typing "fcking troll" asked if Ivern was better than talon with rengar but they didn't say a word about our choice. We have managed to kill their Caitlyn two Times and one time thresh while they have only killed rengar once. Then he could easly go to their jungle taking his camps near blue buff and I was pretty fed with talon so it was too risky for two of them to try fight with me. We have won that easly without adc and support.

If someone blames you just ignore him, it is just a game after all and it is often worth to try new strategy.

Rockm Sockm14 votes

You realize an Adc that rushes maw went from being worthless for 15-20 minutes to 30-35?

You have zero choice but to farm safely and try to hit your power spikes.

No defensive rush is going to help you not die faster with those kits. If the enemy bot got a snowball lead, it's not like you can fight them cause you got a chain vest.

The only options you have are early boots to kite back and double Dorans to survive lane.

chipndip12 votes

If you're a marksman with high wave clear, you can go for PD first crit item, maybe Death's Dance over BT for your life steal...that's about it.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

That right there is bullshit. Maybe you should watch high elo games. quas playing with azir and idk what the other was bot. Enemy had varus building maw first, what happened? Yeah varus fucked them. ADC in2k17 LUL. You are not supposed to fight them 1v1 btw. Still a teamgame, you have a top, mid and jungler ready to kill the adc. All you need to do is to survive as long as possible and dish out as much dmg as possible. But if allyou do is going for 3 crit items so you die after 2 AAs instead of going maybe one crit item and maw, BT, scimittar and doing 20 AAs you sure will be useless.

Earl Eulrich3 votes

just don´t try comparing higher elo games to lower elo games - when you have someone actually peeling for you it´s a whole different game for an adc to play - also if someone else in your team also deals dmg in teamfights. For lower elos though if you fall behind mostly you are forced to get to the IE+Zeal as you really will need all the dmg you can get to make a difference on your own + without peel the only way to survive for most carries is indeed just killing their attackers as fast as possible.

(and last but not least, Varus doesn´t relay as much on Autoattacks as many other carries, especially early and midgame - which is exactly the reason he mostly is used midlane as a caster...so Hextrinker is a way better early buy on him then it would be e.g. on Vayne or Caitlyn).

Shuriman Curator8 votes

I primarily play top and mid, and to be honest I wouldn't mind going duo top with a support, or better yet id rather support a top laner than going bot. It's just too much of a shit show down there.

Anyone on NA want to give it a go with duo top? Id do it.

Geauxx3 votes

You're better off now soon that unless you're in a 5 man. Breaking that far off the meta will upset people and riot will ban you... Hence the singed support main guy.

Shuriman Curator4 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Bloo Banana,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F6WeMghu,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-01-05T13:58:20.213+0000)

You're better off now soon that unless you're in a 5 man. Breaking that far off the meta will upset people and riot will ban you... Hence the singed support main guy.

Eh, i mean i've started playing Galio. That alone i feel that i've been breaking the meta.

Karol Scheibler11 votes

"support"

he was not supporting

he was double jungling even when his team BEGGED him to not do that

Geauxx1 votes

So what if i begged you not to support the toplane like he wants to try, and im the adc?

is that not the same thing? or should i report you for basically the same thing?

Finn Teh Human4 votes

Difference is if his "singed support" didn't work then it would put not only him but also his ADC behind.

Geauxx1 votes

So what if leaving the adc doesn't work and the support supports toplane ?

Finn Teh Human1 votes

???

TheTrueQuarian1 votes

Id duo top mate add me and we can try it out later ;)

Shuriman Curator1 votes

{quoted}

Id duo top mate add me and we can try it out later ;)

Cool i sent you a FR.

GarthBrooksXD5 votes

Don't worry dude. They are buffing adcs soon, and I kinda suspect they may tune down the tower fb gold or get rid of it because that is just another thing that is making games snowball so quickly.

100HorsePower37 votes

Its not the power of ADC's that I think its the problem. Its the mindset of the players and the lack of variation in builds. Most ADC's will never build defensive items if they start losing. Something that I've learnt to do as a support player. You look at the what the enemy team is building and build around that.

Geauxx10 votes

They mainly don't because they are meant to carry the late game, and progress their build as quickly to that goal as possible.

ADC rarely has variations outside standard buildings that doesn't involve very few items like "GA, Merc scim, hexdrinker, LW(if theres a decently strong tank)

AirKingNeo3 votes

ADCs can't build defensive items because they deal no damage then.

DeusVult4 votes

OP means item 3156 item 3139 item 3814 item 3026

all of these are items that an ADC can purchase and no one is gonna think otherwise. Yes it is the ADCs job to deal DPS in a fight, but if the other team is destroying your ADC before they can even get a shot off, and they could survive because of the MR/actives/shields that they above items give, then they should probably rush those items instead of continuing building item 3031 item 3087 item 3085 etc just because "meh powerspike" your items and your DPS mean nothing if you are dead

Terchio1 votes

Problem is that those items add a bit of AD/AS on a champion that typically stacks high amounts of AD, Crit, AS, and quite often Lethality, and that's not even counting Lifesteal, which is probably meh useless on the losing end, but usually better than damage mitigation. Of the items mentioned, one has zero of those stats, one has movement out of combat (assassin-esque, basically the opposite of a carry's needs), one blocks less than a quarter of damage of only one damage type on the squishiest of champions (barring MPen), and the last has major protection against the same main defensive stat the others all already overload on, Magic Resist. Meanwhile, champions like Yasuo, Vi, Camille, and Rengar are popping in and one-shotting ADCs with little to stop them. These were meant to mitigate the abuse, but they won't dig you out of a hole like simply catching an enemy out, which is easier on full damage, and may be squandered otherwise.

These are items that full-on tanks forego for better protection elsewhere, and tanks are insta-deleted in this meta, particularly on the losing end of things. Why are we thinking a little trickle of damage mitigation is going to bring the tides in your favor on the strongest damage-scaling, most focused champions in the game?

All in all, damage vs. mitigation, either could save you in the right circumstances. But to say that the best scaling, most range-abusing champions in the game are unwise to build damage on the losing team is just wrong. In fact, the defensive bolster usually only works when the team is literally useless in peel, and basically uses you as fodder to Yi/Yasuo/Darius/Illaoi the enemy team out of existence, in which case your items rarely meant jack to begin with.

Finn Teh Human3 votes

I'm an ADC main and the problem with what you're saying here is that ADC is the damage powerhouse. I build according to my team/enemy team/ and my teams peel. Sometimes it's better just to play safer and farm from behind and continue to go damage then to go defense right away.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

It's not that they don't want to, it's that doing so carries the cost of doing less damage than their power spikes, especially during lower elos, where teams want to bash their heads against each other rather than try and farm or go for objectives.

NGNL Asian1 votes

{quoted}

Its not the power of ADC's that I think its the problem. Its the mindset of the players and the lack of variation in builds. Most ADC's will never build defensive items if they start losing. Something that I've learnt to do as a support player. You look at the what the enemy team is building and build around that.

It's variable, I personally prefer to build defensive when behind but some people build defensive when ahead and some just go full yolo

Saianna1 votes

Most ADC's will never build defensive items if they start losing.

Reason for that is because offensive stats rolls alot harder than defensive. Other words, Buying defensive doesn't help you win against offensive-focusing champion. You'll turn into damageless duck. Also ADCs do have this fun-fun bloodthirster, whcih is both offensive and defensive item in 1 (and does the job alot better than Maw)

That's one of the reasons why There are no lategame tank items, to make that difference and give offensive-champs a helping hand.

Also Maw is one of those cases, where champion has to have good synergy to actually use it. Because if you just go for simple MR and shield, then this item won't do much.

SmileInABox4 votes

I'll tell you from experience man, item 3156 will not save you as an ADC. If a Katarina or Syndra is fed they will just kill you straight through the shield. The only way it'll actually help you survive is if you have lifesteal, and if you build both a item 3156 and aitem 3072 early you're delaying triple crit which is integral on champs like Caitlyn or Twitch and you're gonna be worthless. The only champs that it's okay to build defensively on early are ADC's that don't build crit like MissFortune and Draven, and it still probably won't save them if they aren't fed out of their minds.

Pentium21 votes

Draven not building crit?

K, den.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

SmileInABox1 votes

Isn't the so called Korean draven build first item Bloodthirster? Do your research friendo.

Pentium21 votes

Seriously, what the hell are you smoking?

The korean build goes with GB ->BC->RFC core, then the rest is situational, it was used by a single korean guy, so there's like 70 games on record with this build.

Next time you make claims, make sure to read after things before telling people they don't need to build crit on Draven, because it is as optional, as buying items, or breathing.

SmileInABox1 votes

Did I tell everyone not to build crit on Draven? Jesus christ, if you're this toxic on a forum I'd hate to see you in game.

Hauling Ashe4 votes

If you want us to build item 3156 then don't blame us when we're not doing enough DPS. And don't expect it to magically save us from the 4-man bot gank.

Veltox2 votes

Dps>your life. Unless your name is KogMaw explain me all the damage you do while dead because your not even trying to adapt your build.

Hauling Ashe6 votes

You'd be surprised how often you get blamed for "not doing enough damage" as an ADC.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Well most likely because adcs go full dmg and still aren't mentally or physically able to rightclick? Once you had a 4/15 adc with 13k dmg (jinx) in a 40 min game you start to doubt that adc players should even play the game. 90% of the adc players currently jumping on that bandwaggon are just shitty players in general. No positioning, no mechanics=no dmg. But muh adc so weak.

Hauling Ashe4 votes

Once you have a 0/9 jg with no dragons/barons in a 40 minute game you start to doubt that jg players should even play the game.

See what I did there?

Wheatloaf4 votes

It's incredibly difficult to get 5 random people to execute on a strategy they don't already know. Thus, things tend towards everyone playing the current meta to a T, rather than risking something new.

Chizzah3 votes

Building defense especially in elo hell is asking to lose as an ADC. With the 2 hybrid offensive / defensive items and let's say a GA. You will stil get killed almost immediately because you lacking Health to make your resistances mean something for you.

Learn to play safe. Never rely on your team even if they are reliable. Always play as if someone is out to get you because they are.

Forever Bronze V

Noblewind1 votes

I disagree. I've been on so many teams while climbing with a struggling to farm ADC who continues to grind away at components for a third or fourth damage item, and the situation at that point is typically this:

There is a fed enemy champ with burst and your ADC every skirmish and teamfight is dying instantly before getting more than a couple autos off from the fed enemy's initial burst. The rest of your team does decently strong damage and come the end of fights they are actually pretty close and it's a constant 4 for 4 give or take situation.

Your win condition at this point is for the ADC to just buy a tank item like Deadman's. I'm serious, it's GG at that point. They won't die to one burst when dove, making their assassin look like a noob for how far they've dove, get movespeed to help avoid the burst in the first place, and believe it or not getting 5+ autos off with moderate damage is way more damage than getting a little more each AA but not being able use it reliably.

People in low elo lose a lot of games by not understanding the importance of defensive stats.

Vesemir2 votes

Today i couldnt burst the adc down with lux having 712 AP and a void staff because adc had item 3156 and item 3026 . Is this a joke? What am i supposed to do.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

That's player problem, not game problem. I don't know about you but League has always had a trickle-down mentality where the top tier of players experiment and try new things while those below plat/diamond just take the scraps and copy things without truly understanding why they work. (ADC Ziggs.)

ReZisT Lust2 votes

APC*

Gnart Even Close2 votes

I mean, it's only one part strategy. There was a really great post recently about how League is one part strategy, one part tactics, and one part RPG stat check. I think many people get far too wrapped up in the tactics that they forget about the other parts, especially when playing mechanically intensive roles such as ADC or certain carry champs (cough cough riven, cough cough yasuo). It's hard for people to change their mindset of the game, but really the only way you can become a better player is by looking at ALL aspects of the game rather than just one. It does seem like the vast majority of people don't even realize that much.

100HorsePower1 votes

Can people stop pretending that ADC's absolutely need nothing but damage. Other classes can deal damage as well just as reliably and hell, you have have Graves who is tanky and can deal out massive damage. So not EVERY ADC needs to be built exactly the same way, like a glass cannon or else they suck. Other classes can make up for the loss in damage of an ADC.

Bots Whilst High2 votes

Graves gets over 100 free resistances during fights which is why the extra MR and heavy lifesteal builds are cancer. No other adc has a defense steroid to make these items worthwhile because enemy midlaners burn through Maw and kill the adc because Adcs still have 1700 health. More efficient to build damage and hope for good peel and positioning yourself correctly than building defensively and getting 2 shot by their midlaner and enemy adc anyways.

WhatAGeinius2 votes

99% of the time if you build a defensive item on an ADC before your 4th item you are going to be less than worthless. ADC's kits are designed in such away that if you don't have damage items, you just don't function as a champion.

Serika Zero1 votes

"The definition of madness is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"

I hate this so much. Guess what genius. You are playing this game over and over again expecting a different result. And guess what genius. There is always gona be something different as you can't control all variables.

The "wise man" was making a joke at geniuses that would take it to seriously. Practice makes perfect is another saying, by no famous man and much much MUCH more closer to the truth.

By repeating the same process over and over again, once can see different "results" based on different variables. And tune it till it reaches the desired outcome. That's why, when you well a little brat and wanted to walk. You TRIED AND TRIED AND TRIED AND TRIED, and you STUMBLED countless times. Were you insane? Were all of us INSANE? no, its normal to try multiple times to see if you can get that different result its normal and human to expect different results to same actions COZ WE DON'T LIVE IN VOID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Secretlolz1 votes

I think ADC's builds should be the Antithesis to juggernaut's builds: if they can build 1 damage item and full defense, and stomp, ADCs can build 1 defense item and full damage and stomp.

I usually buy 1 defensive item, and thats enough general burst threatitem 3022 AD threathitem 3742 vs diver CCitem 3814 vs AP burstitem 3156

People usually shut up when I outlive 3 the enemy Vi, irelia and Diana diving me

Dusk Mane Rengar1 votes

ADCs can build 1 defense item and full damage and stomp.

But then when they get OBVIOUSLY killed by an Assasin is "unfair and lacks of skills and counterplay", like fuck off you are the only role of the game whose main damage source has literally 0 counterplay.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

The players in games will immediately scream at an ADC if they don't build pure damage. Why would anyone want to go defensively if it weakens the entire point of them being in the game AND all but guarantees that they'll get flammed for it.

Delphinium1 votes

Too snowballing, make the game unfun

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