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It feels like an huge number high skill floor champions right now are way overtuned...

PaffWasTaken··66 votes·16,408 views

Like it or not, a champion who is supposed to be a niche pick who would be hard to use for most people not maining it SHOULD have consequentially low winrate and/or pickrate. At the moment, this logic doesn't apply at all:

Supposedly hard champions like Riven , Zed, Vayne or even Katarina lately are getting insane stats in several elos while being usable by an huge number of players (sometimes even some first timers) with a great amount of efficiency, which kinda goes against the whole concept of "high skill floor, high skill ceiling" champions.

Some others like LeeSin also have HUGE pickrates (and by huge, I mean being the most picked jungler by having about twice the pickrate of the second most played jungler for several several months, which is utterly massive), but you can actually see the result of this pickrate affecting the champion: even if Lee Sin is highly tiered for jungle ever since his insane LCS buffs of last year, he boasts a pretty pathetic winrate which is the consequence of having way too many people playing such an skill-hungry champîon.

Where is the winrate drop with Riven , one of the most popular toplaners (or THE most popular in certain patches and/or elos) and precedently considered as THE hardest champ to master in the game? Ironically, her winrate only seems to grow as time goes on along with her pickrate. People are realising how busted she is and they are starting to pick her without any apparent drawbacks if we look at the winrate... This is also appliable (in a less extreme proportion than the situation already showcased, agreed.) to a lot of the other "high skill floored" champions who are populating the game as of now. This situation clearly needs some consequent decision making and this is supported by raw evident numbers, AKA you can't really deny the problem by using unrelated arguments like "just cc them lol" or "my super niche full AP bruiser trundle counters them so therefore they are not OP"

114 Comments

Xavanic26 votes

the problem is riot severely overtunes the numbers of high skill champs for some reason...which is honestly just bad design...i can understand giving riven a bit of a dmg edge over say...diana....but right now its ludicrous....riven is doing 500 dmg level 1 with a single combo..which she can pull off within 2 seconds because of her animation cancelling, she does have counters, but as of right now...riot needs to be a little less generous in terms of numbers on high skill champs

Voluug135 votes

Riven is so overtuned that she can one-sidedly burst down anyone that doesnt have point&click CC. If your CC can fail she will just shit on you hard.

DevilsRath5 votes

I thought riven was insanely busted myself, till i played the champ and understood the amount of skill people like boxbox and adrian possess and the ridiculous amount of hours they put into the champ. Its not the hardest champ in the game for no reason and she is pretty punishing to players who are bad at her.

Xavanic7 votes

{quoted}

I thought riven was insanely busted myself, till i played the champ and understood the amount of skill people like boxbox and adrian possess and the ridiculous amount of hours they put into the champ. Its not the hardest champ in the game for no reason and she is pretty punishing to players who are bad at her.

problem is, skill shouldn't = stronger numbers, that is just bad design, more utility and outplay potential fine...but not numbers

funkdubious24 votes

Riven **is ** insanely busted. I just played vs her in ranked just now. Yes, at level 1 she popped about 550 of my health. And was about to do it again and kill me within the ultra short cooldown had Shen not been right around the corner.

Riven is insanely busted because the cooldowns and animation cancels offer ZERO counterplay beyond a summoner spell, especially at level 1. You just have to eat the poop. Its not right.

Then she gets a little gold and Spear of Sojin, and its Q Q Q dance all game. As Hashinshin says, the ONLY THING that holds back Riven players from dominating entirely is the OCD to 1v5 in every single instance. They'll jump into bad fights thinking Q Q Q E Q Q Q E Q Q Q E Q Q Q E will keep them from dying when the team starts CCing and crit damaging her.

Btw, I played as Kayle and once I finally hit level 11 (as usual) I was finally able to chunk her down and send her packing after building Phantom Dancer. For the entire first half of the game, had it not been for Shen, she was easily dominating lane and when she roamed, even without getting fed kills, and being basically even in CS most of laning phase.

O Fallen Scholar1 votes

It's your fault if you let her do 500+ damage to you level 1. Your own problem mate. Get better at the game.

YiffMeImAFurry2 votes

{quoted}

the problem is riot severely overtunes the numbers of high skill champs for some reason...which is honestly just bad design...i can understand giving riven a bit of a dmg edge over say...diana....but right now its ludicrous....riven is doing 500 dmg level 1 with a single combo..which she can pull off within 2 seconds because of her animation cancelling, she does have counters, but as of right now...riot needs to be a little less generous in terms of numbers on high skill champs

i dont play riven so idk if this is a dumb thing to say but would removing animation cancels for her make fix the problem?

preternatural2 votes

{quoted}

i dont play riven so idk if this is a dumb thing to say but would removing animation cancels for her make fix the problem?

you're not allowed to say that.

O Fallen Scholar1 votes

Maybe learn to play against these champions? And on what planet you can pull off 500 damage combo at level 1 (unless you play Vladimir, but then you deserve this)? Ever heard of playing safe? Ever heard of actually picking a champion who can punish that sort of thing? Wave management? Positioning? Playing around abilities? Riven has to base after couple bad trades because she's squishy and has no regen. Abuse that and don't be a whiny kid.

hoganftw16 votes

Every time high skill champions get nerfed, they get compensation buffs. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Flashes3 votes

{quoted}

Every time high skill champions get nerfed, they get compensation buffs. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Vayne didn't and she's fine right now idk why yall are still complaining about her.

Sivir, Jinx, and Kai'sa are all better picks than her.

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Worst Summoner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4ztpt1j,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-07-16T19:29:22.449+0000)

Vayne didn't and she's fine right now idk why yall are still complaining about her.

Sivir, Jinx, and Kai'sa are all better picks than her.

Ashe is better also. Have fun fighting item 3508 item 3078 Comet Ashe as Vayne XDDDDDDDDDDD

So is Draven.

Caitlyn's probably better also.

Flashes1 votes

{quoted}

Ashe is better also. Have fun fighting item 3508 item 3078 Comet Ashe as Vayne XDDDDDDDDDDD

So is Draven.

Caitlyn's probably better also.

Oh right

Draven is S tier, Ashe is A to S tier, and Caitlyn is A tier while Vayne is low A tier / high B tier iirc.

Shiroe Okazaki2 votes

{quoted}

Every time high skill champions get nerfed, they get compensation buffs. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

few months ago. Riven has highest WR and one of the highest play rates top. Riots like hmm. less e more q easy fix. same with vayne. high wr play rate and all that. slight nerf and compensation. i don't remember which one but i heard riot said like "we don't think these champs were broken. We just think they were frustrating to play against"

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shiroe Okazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4ztpt1j,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-07-17T13:59:02.449+0000)

few months ago. Riven has highest WR and one of the highest play rates top. Riots like hmm. less e more q easy fix. same with vayne. high wr play rate and all that. slight nerf and compensation. i don't remember which one but i heard riot said like "we don't think these champs were broken. We just think they were frustrating to play against"

????????

Please do your research before posting crap like this.

Riven was "compensated"... Vayne was not.

Riven's winrate goes as high as 54-55% the higher up the ladder you go.

Vayne sits around 50% at all elos.

https://i.gyazo.com/a8b870b6fd5b40b203f16a85f09fcf65.png

https://i.gyazo.com/b9d25ebb9817d3337b5a86715748ebeb.png

What "compensation"?

You'll probably reply and be like "Oh the armor penetration on Guinsoo's was buffed!!!!11"...

It's almost like Vayne doesn't buy it for the pen XD

Hell, NO ONE who buys Guinsoo's buys it for the armor penetration.

Shiroe Okazaki1 votes

{quoted}

????????

Please do your research before posting crap like this.

Riven was "compensated"... Vayne was not.

Riven's winrate goes as high as 54-55% the higher up the ladder you go.

Vayne sits around 50% at all elos.

https://i.gyazo.com/a8b870b6fd5b40b203f16a85f09fcf65.png

https://i.gyazo.com/b9d25ebb9817d3337b5a86715748ebeb.png

What "compensation"?

You'll probably reply and be like "Oh the armor penetration on Guinsoo's was buffed!!!!11"...

It's almost like Vayne doesn't buy it for the pen XD

Hell, NO ONE who buys Guinsoo's buys it for the armor penetration.

Yea your right about me being wrong on vayne. Just looked up the 9.10 patch notes and she wasn't compensated. however the direct nerf was hardly anything. And you don't have to be a douche with your reply lol just say simply "hey vayne wasn't compensated" thats all

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shiroe Okazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4ztpt1j,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-17T14:13:15.197+0000)

Yea your right about me being wrong on vayne. Just looked up the 9.10 patch notes and she wasn't compensated. however the direct nerf was hardly anything. And you don't have to be a douche with your reply lol just say simply "hey vayne wasn't compensated" thats all

actually it was quite a big nerf.

Was approximately a 2% drop.

5or6stores12 votes

Except Akali Irelia Azir Bard Fiora Kindred Nidalee Zoe exist, high skill champs that aren't overtuned.

On the other hand, some of the most overtuned champs atm are completely brainless: Mordekaiser TahmKench Diana

Lee has a big pickrate because he's fun to play. Vayne's stats aren't out of line.

Voluug138 votes

TK is only overtuned early on, he drops like bricks after 15min, so more that overtuned he is mis(?)tuned. Morde is supposed to have stronger numbers that hypermobile heroes, if he was numerically tuned at the same level that hypermobile tops then there isnt a point of picking him or any juggernaut.

And Diana has higher numbers to make up for the fact that her itemization is mediocre and she has no escapes. Why even pick her if someone safer has equal or better numbers?

Serika Zero2 votes

I'm a Diana main. I'm curious what your thought process was when you determined that Dia is overturned and brainless 🤔

Thx

funkdubious22 votes

moonshot, gap close, delete champ. next!

moonshot, gap close, delete champ. next!

I think her only real weakness is lack of escape, since her gap close is tied to the moonshot thing.

5or6stores1 votes

She’s no morde, but the Q changes bumped her winrate like +4 percent, it was pretty huge. It was stated they’d look into possible bugs that are being exploited or possible nerfs to keep her in check.

Serika Zero1 votes

It's both roa and q buff. if q buff would be removed or reverted, her win rate would still be up by like 2%

Her "bug" also called rqr was removed a bunch of patches ago. the only bug left is qr where you use r before q hits the target and still get an r reset. if you hit the target with r like 0.1-0.4 seconds before the q hit you will still get the reset.

I assume it accounts for latency. And it's a feature they might want to remove but otherwise I'm not aware of Dia bugs

Sucction2 votes

{quoted}

Except Akali Irelia Azir Bard Fiora Kindred Nidalee Zoe exist, high skill champs that aren't overtuned.

On the other hand, some of the most overtuned champs atm are completely brainless: Mordekaiser TahmKench Diana

Lee has a big pickrate because he's fun to play. Vayne's stats aren't out of line.

Agree mostly, but wanna point out that Kindred is definitely overtuned, and Zoe, Azir, Irelia and Akali are either total trash or break the game singlehandedly

Jamaree7 votes

Not sure about the others but Riven’s numbers perfectly showcase the high skill floor thing. Her win rate is well below average at low elos as people don’t understand her because she is a mechanically skilled champion and the higher you go up, the higher her win rate goes up at well, isn’t that how its supposed to be.

Xavanic12 votes

{quoted}

Not sure about the others but Riven’s numbers perfectly showcase the high skill floor thing. Her win rate is well below average at low elos as people don’t understand her because she is a mechanically skilled champion and the higher you go up, the higher her win rate goes up at well, isn’t that how its supposed to be.

she just rofl stomps ppl while being played by people with just a basic understanding of her kit, since she just outright does too much dmg early game

Jamaree4 votes

{quoted}

she just rofl stomps ppl while being played by people with just a basic understanding of her kit, since she just outright does too much dmg early game

That is again clearly not true as the numbers show that.

Xavanic3 votes

{quoted}

That is again clearly not true as the numbers show that.

okay, but riven is also a snowball champ, meaning she needs to know how to use the snowball or she's useless, which ppl don't understand in lower elo

Jamaree7 votes

{quoted}

okay, but riven is also a snowball champ, meaning she needs to know how to use the snowball or she's useless, which ppl don't understand in lower elo

Ok, so the problem is that she is too easy to snowball with then is what you are saying, how is that any different then any other snowball champion especially ones with easier kits at that?

Edit: what kind of win rate and stat line should these champions have then?

Xavanic4 votes

{quoted}

Ok, so the problem is that she is too easy to snowball with then is what you are saying, how is that any different then any other snowball champion especially ones with easier kits at that?

Edit: what kind of win rate and stat line should these champions have then?

win rate doesn't mean anything on a champs performance, look at sylas, he is legitmately op rn, being a melee mage capable of outdueling darius and other powerful combatants and his winrate is what...45%? riven is super easy to snowball/win lane with, but as the game progresses you start to actually need the skill to use her properly, plus she needs to know how to use this advantage to close out the game before she loses her lead due to her falling off since everyone and their mother has hard CC now a days, this is where she falls flat in lower elo, players in low elo suck at closing out games, this is her problem, pantheon is similar in this case, as in iron bronze and silver, his winrate is rather low, but once you hit gold, it's 50% (most bursty melee champs fall of late game due to the sheer amount of CC in this game now a days)

Jamaree5 votes

{quoted}

win rate doesn't mean anything on a champs performance, look at sylas, he is legitmately op rn, being a melee mage capable of outdueling darius and other powerful combatants and his winrate is what...45%?

Someone has to be the best at it, if not him, would be another also lower then that, try 40 to 44% actually.

riven is super easy to snowball/win lane with, but as the game progresses you start to actually need the skill to use her properly, plus she needs to know how to use this advantage to close out the game before she loses her lead due to her falling off since everyone and their mother has hard CC now a days,

So she is a high skill champion then?

this is where she falls flat in lower elo, players in low elo suck at closing out games, this is her problem, pantheon is similar in this case, as in iron bronze and silver, his winrate is rather low, but once you hit gold, it's 50% (most bursty melee champs fall of late game due to the sheer amount of CC in this game now a days)

Ok so what then, I’m more so confused on what is being said here, by your own admission unless I’m mistaken, you admitted that she was a high skill champion who is able to only really shine with players who understand how to use her kit to the fullest and are good at the game. So she should get nerfed to what point?

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

Someone has to be the best at it, if not him, would be another also lower then that, try 40 to 44% actually.

So she is a high skill champion then?

Ok so what then, I’m more so confused on what is being said here, by your own admission unless I’m mistaken, you admitted that she was a high skill champion who is able to only really shine with players who understand how to use her kit to the fullest and are good at the game. So she should get nerfed to what point?

point is win rates are not a very good justification of a champs power

she has a high skill ceiling yes, but with how high her numbers are her skill floor is severely reduced

Nerfed enough so that she can't just rofl stomp melee champs that aren't garen/renekton/jax at level 1, i understand she is supposed to be a lane bully, but even darius needs a bit of time before he truly becomes a threat in lane, riven just starts out with uber dmg at level 1, the only champs that tend to beat her are ones with cheesy ways of avoiding her early dmg (garen Q stops her Q combo, Renekton W stops her Q combo, jax E avoids her aa's) i would honestly suggest a minor rework to riven due to her honestly flawed kit design as she currently just has too much dmg early but falls off like a rock without gold...but it's not entirely her fault either, it's partially caused by core problems with league right now

Jamaree4 votes

{quoted}

point is win rates are not a very good justification of a champs power

I think they are a better basis for a champion’s power then conjecture as they aren’t anywhere near as bias as people are on here, but ok.

she has a high skill ceiling yes, but with how high her numbers are her skill floor is severely reduced

Nerfed enough so that she can't just rofl stomp melee champs that aren't garen/renekton/jax at level 1,

So make her worst at the time when she is supposed to be strongest while still also losing to the champions you mentioned, side note, why wouldn’t you learn and play those champions then who all have far lower skill floors?

i understand she is supposed to be a lane bully, but even darius needs a bit of time before he truly becomes a threat in lane, riven just starts out with uber dmg at level 1, the only champs that tend to beat her are ones with cheesy ways of avoiding her early dmg (garen Q stops her Q combo, Renekton W stops her Q combo, jax E avoids her aa's) i would honestly suggest a minor rework to riven due to her honestly flawed kit design as she currently just has too much dmg early but falls off like a rock without gold...but it's not entirely her fault either, it's partially caused by core problems with league right now

Then don’t fight her level one? Why is that not an option, if you know her early game is just better then yours, why is not fighting her level one a choice and why shouldn’t we rework all lane bullies who have that problem then?

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

I think they are a better basis for a champion’s power then conjecture as they aren’t anywhere near as bias as people are on here, but ok.

So make her worst at the time when she is supposed to be strongest while still also losing to the champions you mentioned, side note, why wouldn’t you learn and play those champions then who all have far lower skill floors?

Then don’t fight her level one? Why is that not an option, if you know her early game is just better then yours, why is not fighting her level one a choice and why shouldn’t we rework all lane bullies who have that problem then?

They really aren't while...look at qiyana...her win rate is total garbage right now at all elos, but wehn a run into a good one...thats it games over, no one can stay alive

I have played them, and she can still easily win vs them right now due to her absurd dmg, she just doesn't rofl stomp them as hard as she does against say mordekaiser or aatrox due to the cheese in their kits

I'm not fucking trying to, but her level 1 is just too strong, she is fucking just outright zoning me from farm completely causing me to still be level 1 when she's hitting level 4 since she does so much dmg due to her 3 empowered AA's and triple use ability at level one, then once the wave is finally at my tower so i can farm...i finally hit level 2...but oh wait riven just dived me and got a kill due to her massive level advantage so now im just trolling at this point as my team sees it since she is level 6 while im level 2, meanwhile the jungler will gank and feed her 2 or 3 times, and flames me for not engaging on a level 9 riven when im level 4, this is the problem with her right now, a good riven puts anyone to shame...on top of this she just dived me again, got another kill, and hits level 11 before i can even hit 6, on top of getting another 1000+ gold from said tower...meaning this riven is roughly 5000+ gold up and i can't do anything because of how strong her level 1 zoning was, then by 20 minutes she 1v5's the team, team flames me and tells them to 9x report, riven says that she will make sure to report me for trolling and then proceeds to be a dick to me for losing so hard meanwhile when the game ends, im level 7 or 8, the rest of my team is around 11 - 13, and riven is level 18, so i look like a troll, this is how it goes with a good riven, just because a champ falls off, doesn't mean they deserve to be this unfairly balanced early game

Jamaree3 votes

{quoted}

They really aren't while...look at qiyana...her win rate is total garbage right now at all elos, but wehn a run into a good one...thats it games over, no one can stay alive

So if we can’t use win rates, how is a system based off conjecture a good basis on what is strong or not?

What if I say I think Ryze is too strong, or Gnar? What makes my post any more or less valid.

I have played them, and she can still easily win vs them right now due to her absurd dmg, she just doesn't rofl stomp them as hard as she does against say mordekaiser or aatrox due to the cheese in their kits

I'm not fucking trying to, but her level 1 is just too strong, she is fucking just outright zoning me from farm completely causing me to still be level 1 when she's hitting level 4 since she does so much dmg due to her 3 empowered AA's and triple use ability at level one, then once the wave is finally at my tower so i can farm...i finally hit level 2...but oh wait riven just dived me and got a kill due to her massive level advantage so now im just trolling at this point as my team sees it since she is level 6 while im level 2, meanwhile the jungler will gank and feed her 2 or 3 times, and flames me for not engaging on a level 9 riven when im level 4, this is the problem with her right now, a good riven puts anyone to shame...on top of this she just dived me again, got another kill, and hits level 11 before i can even hit 6, on top of getting another 1000+ gold from said tower...meaning this riven is roughly 5000+ gold up and i can't do anything because of how strong her level 1 zoning was, then by 20 minutes she 1v5's the team, team flames me and tells them to 9x report, riven says that she will make sure to report me for trolling and then proceeds to be a dick to me for losing so hard meanwhile when the game ends, im level 7 or 8, the rest of my team is around 11 - 13, and riven is level 18, so i look like a troll, this is how it goes with a good riven, just because a champ falls off, doesn't mean they deserve to be this unfairly balanced early game

Riven is good in the right hands, but if you don’t let her free harass you early, a Riven isn’t going to 100 to zero you under tower at level 3, that doesn’t happen.

Xavanic2 votes

{quoted}

So if we can’t use win rates, how is a system based off conjecture a good basis on what is strong or not?

What if I say I think Ryze is too strong, or Gnar? What makes my post any more or less valid.

Riven is good in the right hands, but if you don’t let her free harass you early, a Riven isn’t going to 100 to zero you under tower at level 3, that doesn’t happen.

ryze/gnar can't 1 shot you at level 1

YES SHE CAN, I LITERALLY HAD IT HAPPEN TO ME, i even flashed, which she simply followed up with a flash, and the worst part about it? she got out alive still, and it's not so much as free harass as it is she goes straight ham to force you out of the lane, since level 1 with ignite she has so much kill potential its stupid

Jamaree3 votes

{quoted}

ryze/gnar can't 1 shot you at level 1

Nor can Riven.

YES SHE CAN, I LITERALLY HAD IT HAPPEN TO ME, i even flashed, which she simply followed up with a flash, and the worst part about it? she got out alive still, and it's not so much as free harass as it is she goes straight ham to force you out of the lane, since level 1 with ignite she has so much kill potential its stupid

No, no she can't, though I would love proof of that.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

But they do. Elo isn't a metric for "how often they play riven". In Plat+ people who "don't play Riven" are winning with her. She has a respectable winrate among players that do not play her.

Jamaree2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Flawless Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4ztpt1j,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-16T07:03:59.148+0000)

But they do. Elo isn't a metric for "how often they play riven". In Plat+ people who "don't play Riven" are winning with her. She has a respectable winrate among players that do not play her.

So does Jinx, Ashe, and Nami who all have higher win rates, play rates, and less ban rates then her, side note, what proof of that do you have and why does that statement not work for other champions?

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Are you not paying attention to the thread? Jinx, Ashe, and Nami (along with most of the roster) are incredibly simple and straight forward champions that are easy to play. You could argue it's subjective, but the general consensus is that Riven is one of the hardest champions to play well.

Champions that are easy to master are "allowed" to have high winrates after a couple of games played. It makes sense. If a champion is mechanically simple and his a straight forward kit, it shouldn't take a player loads of games in order to perform well. Riven, on the other hand, (again, this could be argued as subjective) is a mechanically intense champion. She also has certain nuances to her kit that cannot be found in any skill descriptions. "Hard to play" champions should have a lower winrate when they're being played by players that don't play said champion. Like OP states, Lee Sin is great but has a shit winrate. Same with Yuumi and Akali. These champions, when played well, are strong, but they're winrate is low because of the "difficulty" of the champions. Riven is often regarded as the hardest champion to master, but her winrate among people that don't play her is still solid. That's the issue. If you still don't get it I'm sorry, but I don't know how else to explain it.

TimeToTroll1 votes

[deleted]

Flawless Fetus1 votes

That's the thing. Her winrate being solid for people that barely play her, if she is one of the hardest champions to play, is very indicative that she's currently to strong. Compare her to Akali, who is an absolute menace when played well. Akali is another incredibly strong champion that isn't easy played at a "high level". Or Yuumi. Their winrates are more in line with where Riven's, supposedly, should be. "Difficult but strong champions" should have a low winrate in general, while players who "really play" these champions should maintain solid winrates. Riven is an exception here. Why? She wasn't always. She's currently overtuned.

TimeToTroll1 votes

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Flawless Fetus1 votes

We've both peaked D2, but your a riven main so you're biased. Lol. I've no qualms with riven. I poop on her all day and night. Lol. That doesn't mean she's not overtuned, though

She's currently an S+ tier top laner, with a winrate of over 51%. That winrate isn't out of line for braindead champions. But riven, supposedly, falls into the hard to play well champs (like Akali). ..Removed by Moderation..

TimeToTroll1 votes

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Flawless Fetus1 votes

U.gg, the one riot says we should use, puts riven at 52%. I'm not aggressive. I'm very chill. And you're still wrong. Lol. Objectively, based on her winrate and winrate per games played, and her having a high skill ceiling. She is over tuned. I understand that you don't want your main to be balanced. No point in trying to rationalize with someone as bias as you, but I do understand you defending your main.

ModEvangele1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Flawless Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4ztpt1j,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T14:07:51.147+0000)

We've both peaked D2, but your a riven main so you're biased. Lol. I've no qualms with riven. I poop on her all day and night. Lol. That doesn't mean she's not overtuned, though

She's currently an S+ tier top laner, with a winrate of over 51%. That winrate isn't out of line for braindead champions. But riven, supposedly, falls into the hard to play well champs (like Akali). ..Removed by Moderation..

Nami While I can understand you guys are having a disagreement here, please remember to do so respectfully. Insinuating ill intent from others in terms of "Champion X players make up statistics to suit them" is not appropriate here and will be removed as per the Universal Rules:

"always try to be respectful and receptive to another player's point of view"

I merely edited this small portion out as I believe the discussion is still present here in this thread, but further instances of such will be removed.

O Fallen Scholar1 votes

That's just false. Easier champions will beat average Riven players period. The worst mistake people do against Riven is that they don't play around her abilities at all.

Yääto6 votes

{quoted}

Not sure about the others but Riven’s numbers perfectly showcase the high skill floor thing. Her win rate is well below average at low elos as people don’t understand her because she is a mechanically skilled champion and the higher you go up, the higher her win rate goes up at well, isn’t that how its supposed to be.

Can't argue facts against biased people... xD

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