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@Meddler: What is your stance on a Support who can cast a spell shield on an ally?

darkdill··6 votes·1,443 views

Before you ask, no, I do not mean Morgana's Black Shield. I mean a spell shield ala Banshee's Veil or Sivir. Morgana's shield won't do anything against a Pantheon's Spear Shot, after all.

Since Bard bypasses the whole "skills shouldn't be able to grief teammates" rule, I can tell Riot is starting to ditch those old rules in favor of new Champion mechanics. One mechanic that I think could really be handy for a future Support would be the ability to plant a spell shield on an ally, one that completely negates an incoming hostile spell when timed right.

No doubt this would be exceptionally handy. But would Riot do it? I'd like to know if such a mechanic is still off-limits.

EDIT: For context, such a spell shield would only be allowed to last 1.5 seconds max. This is because Riot would want to balance it for pro-level play, not pubs, and spell shields are designed to be reactionary in the first place (besides Banshee's Veil).

44 Comments

The5lacker3 votes

The problem is Spell Shields are a very reactionary type of ability, and even with smart-casting I can't imagine it would work smooth enough to actually protect allies.

I don't think it's impossible, but I think it'd be very difficult to implement in such a way as to actually be worth using.

darkdill5 votes

That's no different from standard shields or Morgana's Black Shield in terms of reaction time, or any different from Kayle's ultimate.

The5lacker4 votes

Other than the fact that they last 5 and 3 seconds, respectively, and block multiple abilities or damage sources which means they can be used preemptively as opposed to reactionary.

darkdill6 votes

Then what about Mikael's Crucible? That has to be used in a reactionary sense after your teammate is CC'd, but if you use it at the wrong time, your ally might just get chain-CC'd and still be screwed.

The5lacker4 votes

Can spell shields cleanse something that's already happened?

If it's already happened, then it isn't reactionary. You can't react and prevent the thing happening. With spell shields, you have to react to either the projectile already being in midair, or an enemy moving in a specific way as to obviously be setting up the use of a certain ability.

Try supporting a good Sivir. See when they Spell Shield, what the situation is, and then realize that you would be having to manage that for five people.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

I know morg shields cleanse teemo and twitch poisons, even after they hit. good for teemo shrooms.

The5lacker2 votes

No they do not.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

I know for a fact that morgana's black shield will stop teemo's shroom poision after the fact. I do this quite often.

Mathbalnase2 votes

That is a damage shield with an attached CC immunity, not a 'spell shield'.

'Spell shields' as being discussed here include: Siv E, Noc W, BV

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

I never said it was, i was just trying to give a tip.

The5lacker3 votes

Black Shield isn't a spell shield you mental invalid.

Banshee's Veil, Sivir's Spell Shield, Nocturne's Shroud of Darkness. Single use abilities that absorb and completely counter a single champion ability. Morgana's Black Shield is just a normal absorption shield that only absorbs magic damage and grants CC immunity while it's up. It's an entirely separate concept.

This is like going "WELL MORGANA'S STUN DOESN'T STOP CHANNELS SO OBVIOUSLY NOT ALL STUNS STOP CHANNELS!" Morgana's Q is a snare. You dipshit. Get some basic game knowledge before you try and fail to participate in a discussion.

AMYS GRAVE5 votes

I know morg shields cleanse teemo and twitch poisons, even after they hit. good for teemo shrooms.

Learn to read and stop insulting people. There's no reason for harassment here.

The5lacker2 votes

Learn to have a coherent discussion. We're talking about spell shields. You aren't talking about spell shields. Ergo, you have absolutely nothing of value to contribute to this conversation.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

You were talking about shields that could cleanse something that already happened, Morgana's black shield does just that, so it was perfectly on topic. Saying that someone else has nothing to contribute to a conversation is just being dismissive and shows that you don't want to have a constructive discussion. Good day sir.

The5lacker1 votes

One, no it can't. It blocks the damage, it doesn't cleanse anything.

Two, the topic of discussion is spell shields. You aren't talking about spell shields. I want a constructive discussion: About the thing we're discussing. You aren't bringing anything to the discussion. If you would like to have a constructive discussion about spell shields, start talking about spell shields.

JackPine302 votes

What? Morgana black shield will cleanse poisons. I find your arguments to be both shallow and pedantic.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

I SAID GOOD DAY!

*slams the door*

The5lacker1 votes

No. No it will not. It will absorb the magic damage from the poison, but if the poison lasts longer than the shield, you're still poisoned.

The5lacker1 votes

Ah yes, because quoting an insane man running a chocolate factory in slave labor throwing a tantrum because a pair of individuals broke a minor arbitrary rule really establishes you as the calm, intelligent individual capable of having a coherent discussion.

Major Sparkles2 votes

I'm not sure you understand the difference between reaction, preemptive, and post-emptive.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

When did they state they had a rule of "skills shouldn't be able to grief teammates"? There are several old champs that can be used that way. What they've stated more than once that I read, is that they don't build skills with griefers in mind, giving us the benefit of the doubt to use it correctly (because the griefers are a small minority and should not dictate how they make a champion).

darkdill1 votes

I think it was somewhere in Zileas' Anti-Pattern rules or something like that. I can't exactly remember.

And yeah, I probably worded it wrong on the "skills shouldn't be able to grief teammates". What I meant was something like this: imagine if Thresh's lantern pull weren't up to the receiving player's choice. Thresh could forcibly pull you away when you're just about to get a kill, spoiling it. That would be hardcore griefing.

Bard's case can almost cross that line if applied improperly. Bard could ult an enemy who is just about to get ulted by Ziggs, and that would spoil the kill.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

"Grief" is appropriate, that is exactly what I expected you meant, and is what I meant as well. There are plenty of ways to screw over your teammates, but I don't think Riot should change their position and punish honest players by removing those skills because a few assholes misuse it.

On the real topic at hand, I've wanted a Sivir/Banshee's Veil spellshield I can cast on others, too.

Kivolan3 votes

Kalista and Bard cross the line with what should be allowed, IMO.

I do not want allies directly controlling my actions, as they can do with Bard's and Kalista's ults.

I don't like where this path is leading. =/

Raptamei1 votes

{quoted}

Kalista and Bard cross the line with what should be allowed, IMO.

I do not want allies directly controlling my actions, as they can do with Bard's and Kalista's ults.

I don't like where this path is leading. =/

You don't enjoy being disarmed and nuked by your allied Oracle? :p

Sightless661 votes

Bard's case is a textbook example of being able to grief teammates, and it's a more intersting skill because of it. Riot stated that they revisited and have reconsidered some of their old rules. It appears (and we can hope) that the "skills shouldn't be able to grief teammates" rule got scrapped.

Mathbalnase1 votes

Interesting in the Chinese-proverbial sense, maybe.

OJ1911 votes

{quoted}

I think it was somewhere in Zileas' Anti-Pattern rules or something like that. I can't exactly remember.

And yeah, I probably worded it wrong on the "skills shouldn't be able to grief teammates". What I meant was something like this: imagine if Thresh's lantern pull weren't up to the receiving player's choice. Thresh could forcibly pull you away when you're just about to get a kill, spoiling it. That would be hardcore griefing.

Bard's case can almost cross that line if applied improperly. Bard could ult an enemy who is just about to get ulted by Ziggs, and that would spoil the kill.

the direct example was blitzcrank pulling teammates IIRC, I don't think thresh even existed when the "rule" was made lol.

Raptamei1 votes

{quoted}

And yeah, I probably worded it wrong on the "skills shouldn't be able to grief teammates". What I meant was something like this: imagine if Thresh's lantern pull weren't up to the receiving player's choice. Thresh could forcibly pull you away when you're just about to get a kill, spoiling it. That would be hardcore griefing.

Kalista

Major Sparkles1 votes

Oh man you think Yasuo's Wind Wall gets enough flack. This would induce rage so hard!!!

PokladnicaZla3 votes

Yasuo's wall shields your whole team...

Major Sparkles1 votes

Mmm sidestepping is so hard.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

It stop projetcile from nearly all directions...

Major Sparkles1 votes

It really doesn't. Only straight in front of you. It's pretty easy to bait out the wall and it's got a massive cooldown. Why not complain about Braums shield too? I mean Braum can move around.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

It only blocks the 1.projectile.

Major Sparkles1 votes

No. It blocks all projectiles. It only completely negates the first attack. Subsequent attacks will still be blocked by Braum but will still hurt him at reduced damage.

SleepyLionCub1 votes

I actually feel like this could be useful, but underwhelming in a kit. Sivir's makes sense because she gets mana from using it. A large percent of the time she actually uses it on purpose to gain mana. I know she does use it to save herself often enough too, but about 50% of the time actually protecting herself from danger is NOT the intention.

It would have to do something else for the support or adc after an ability was blocked, otherwise it would be fairly underwhelming.

JumbaJoopleakley1 votes

item 3070 Kayle item 3070

Kitten of Evil1 votes

With ping and reflexes, I'm not sure how this could be balanced. Either its duration is really short (1-2 seconds) in which case OOPS! Slow fingers/bad internet connection, you're out of luck. Or if it's very long (3-6 seconds), it's strictly better than a damage shield.

NorthernDruid1 votes

I'd love to see something like this, a high-cooldown+high resource cost ability, which grants you a 3-4 sec banshee's veil shield.

That would be really sweet.

Silence on enemy caster if it blocks an ability?

Centuros1 votes

Why would there be a rule against spell-shielding an ally? As long as it didn't block allied spells (and I see no reason for it to do so anyway), there would be no grief potential.

Matthias91191 votes

I don't think it is out of the question that they could have something like Sivir or Nocturne's spell shield that is castable on an ally. However, this would consume a LOT of power budget compared to Siv or Noc's self-shields; consider that you could do things like negating Amumu's Q no matter who he tries to target with it.

doublelift fg1 votes

then if they are starting to ditch those old rules, bring a stealth on allies champion

darkdill1 votes

That's a different case. Xypherous told me before that stealth-on-ally is toxic because it destroys counterplay and is too obnoxious to try and counter.

Think of it this way: the counterplay to a Malphite or Amumu is to watch them and be ready to dodge their initiate. But if they were invisible, you'd never know the exact timing for when to dodge. Counterplay destroyed.

What makes it worse is that you can't go near them to detect them with an Oracle's Lens or Vision Ward. That's just committing suicide.

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