Boards›Gameplay

When suggesting nerfs avoid these words...

Arya Riven··38 votes·2,146 views

"Gut", "Remove", "Delete" in reference to a kit or any part of a kit is generally going to garner only negative responses. Nobody wants to hear how "Ashe's slow is annoying gut it now!" Oh yes... let's... gut what makes Ashe, Ashe. Totally reasonable fellow here.

Mechanics can be tuned, numbers can be trimmed and pointless stat boosts can be reworked/reconsidered. But the moment your post consists of "Lucian's passive is broken please delete it and give him something else!" Most people won't take you seriously. There are 134 champions and millions of players. Somebody enjoys that champion, the entire community isn't nodding along like "yeh you right bro. Fuck lucian"

Conversely, when suggesting buffs to a champion avoid adding new large features or massive overtuning of multiple abilities at once. Buffs and nerfs should be incremental adjustments to the kit and numbers. To bring champions in line in a healthy manner.

If a design baseline cannot be balanced with small, incremental changes Azir Aatrox Warwick Riot reworks them. So if you absolutely think a champion cannot be balanced, which is very rare, suggest a rework.

Don't come on the boards going "omgwtf Xerath can never be balanced remove his mana return passive and gut his ult damage!" Nobody but 1 or 2 other haters of that champion are going to take your post seriously.

53 Comments

Dabrick0121 votes

Hi! I'm here to speak for the gameplay boards. We hate all champs and anything that is even remotely underpowered. We then rage about it on the boards with absolutely no grasp of the issue and expect a change. When Riot says they are looking at something, we immediately assume things and take what they said out of context. Then, when nothing gets done, since there is no issue at all. We will rage about it on the boards and threaten to leave, even though we know no one cares if we stay or not.

We hope you enjoy your say. Please leave as soon as possible and don't ever come back.

It's for you own safety.

Arya Riven3 votes

I laughed. Good stuff.

FortisDominus11 votes

{quoted}

Hi! I'm here to speak for the gameplay boards. We hate all champs and anything that is even remotely underpowered. We then rage about it on the boards with absolutely no grasp of the issue and expect a change. When Riot says they are looking at something, we immediately assume things and take what they said out of context. Then, when nothing gets done, since there is no issue at all. We will rage about it on the boards and threaten to leave, even though we know no one cares if we stay or not.

We hope you enjoy your say. Please leave as soon as possible and don't ever come back.

It's for you own safety.

And for whatever reason, if its not a modekaiser thread, we dont give it an upvote... ever...

Supreme Senpai691 votes

We flood every thread with downvotes as soon as it crops up so that it may never see the light of day. Sadly, sometimes this doesn't always work. Damn hot page.

Mal the Red5 votes

When I speak of gutting Yasuo. I cannot think of a nicer word for it. The Yasuo mains will downvote me regardless.

Legacy Hydralpha8 votes

Nerf, change, power shift, etc.

No champion should ever be gutted completely, that just feels like bad game design. If a champion can't be balanced, a rework may be needed in their place.

Gregor Gysi2 votes

How about "Tone him down until a proper solution for [problem that can't be fixed by tweaking numbers] is found." ?

JustMonika135 votes

Looking at the Anti-Yasuo mob.

CancerBasedGod2 votes

Admittedly Yas is bs sometimes, but for windwall and not the reasons most people hate him.

nice table1 votes

with that name i expect you to be playing jayce, yasuo, riven, vayne and gnar so obviously biased here

Ruin Lance2 votes

and so if you hate yasuo you're not biased? :thinking:

nice table1 votes

i love laning against yasuo, generally dont appreciate noob stomping champions and cheeselords though.

Arya Riven1 votes

^plays Darius, Poppy, Renekton and Pantheon.

"noob stomping champions and cheeselords though." Certainly no bias here.

nice table1 votes

points out the champions i have 1-6 games on as my mains LUL, how riven at this time of the year though? are you posting from a leet smurf cause you got banned for being toxic or ashamed of your actual account?

just a side note, poppy darius and renekton are about as standard as top lane gets and not cheesy at all.

Arya Riven1 votes

Renekton, Pantheon, Darius and Poppy are the current cheese laners, you obviously picked them up for a reason if you do not normally play them. Implying you enjoy cheesy stomp lanes.

Riven has also been a standard top laner since her release in S1, Yasuo has been for 2 years, Jayce and Gnar were also designed for top lane.

No I made a smurf because I am poor and couldn't afford a name change, my old name sucked. :)

Not sure what your first question was. How is Riven this time of year? She would be rather overtuned if the meta top laners were nerfed, at the moment she is fine because things like Poppy, Jayce, Renekton and Fiora counter her. If they were all brought down a notch she would need nerfs as well. ATM the best lanes to play Riven into are Darius, Gangplank and of course Teemo. :)

nice table1 votes

its funny that you would mention that as all my renekton games are in the jungle, same for poppy and over half of my pantheon games are in the jungle as well as a couple of darius jungle games.

id actually play top if the whole top lane meta wasn't the most aids it has ever been but ya know apparently im a top lane cheeselord for playing poppy jungle :^)

Zherron Vorse1 votes

This Teemo main has seen a lot of good and bad Rivens... The bad ones are hilarious and food for the taking... The good ones make me wanna cloak in base and never come out.

Arya Riven1 votes

You yourself are looking pretty bias and petty here. Guy comes on and says "Yeah my champion is pretty bs sometimes. I just think it is for different reasons than other people think."

And you start throwing around bias and assuming what he plays as an implication of what kind of person he is.

nice table1 votes

what you play is always an implication of what kind of person you are.

CancerBasedGod1 votes

I don't play Yas. Also I don't play many ranged characters so I'm not generally affected by wind wall. That puts me in a pretty unbiased position here. I don't think wind wall is fair because of its ability to block many ults easy. An extreme example would be Jhin's ult, which essentially doesn't work on yas or anyone near him.

The Loveless3 votes

Rip their fucking legs off. That work?

Glory ln Death10 votes

They already did that to Camille. It didn't work. In fact, it made her worse.

You might want to try a different tactic.

50000000000000001 votes

Pre augmentation Camille pls She has no abilities

TequilaZombie1 votes

Or we can just do it again and leave her FAR FAR AWAY from anyone who knows how to work with Hextech.

Glory ln Death2 votes

Inb4 Camille shows up with True Ice mace legs.

TequilaZombie1 votes

I think the Kill it With Fire approach wouldn't work with True Ice, right?

Glory ln Death1 votes

Nope. True Ice never melts...

Mhihnj1 votes

how about freezing the rest of her

Danjeng3 votes

You make a good point with this post! And a lot of people seem to think so too.

But if you used Yasuo and Camille, instead of Ashe and Lucian as your examples, boards would be all over your ass.

Test this hypothesis by posting an identical post, replacing your examples with more toxic champs, that a lot of people DO want to see gutted. Everybody going to lose their shit.

Pale Pirate3 votes

Hah, lies. Exaggerating and spewing wrong information in general is what people love. It's what gets you upvotes. I tried to honestly count how much the new masteries increased damage%. Got 1 upvote. Then there's that one guy who just throws "masteries can increase damage by 32%" and he reaches the sky.

Supreme Senpai691 votes

To be fair you probably got like 5 upvotes and 6 downvotes. 5 people read it and 6 people blindly downvoted it to artificially make their own thread seem better.

Arya Riven1 votes

This. As somebody who was a former forum moderator for a retro gaming fan website, a lot of people spam downvotes on posts without reading them either out of anger that their post was downvoted or to help keep theirs higher.

Pale Pirate1 votes

Wow, that actually sucks. Kinda goes to explain why many threads I make jump from 1 upvote to 4 to 2 and so on. Also I have the feeling that if people aren't disagreeing but aren't interested in what the OP says either, they will downvote anyway.

Arya Riven1 votes

There are also: Dedicated hates, they hated something you posted before so they follow your topics to downvote you.

People who downvote based on the wording of your title or name, it just annoys them.

People who downvote because they don't like the topic being discussed, they don't care what the discussion is.

People who downvote because your topic was too long/short.

And it goes on.

Zherron Vorse1 votes

Sounds like a waste of time to me. Downvote what you do not like or does not pertain to the discussion and Upvote what you do like or was funny to you.

SzGamer2272 votes

"Gut" isn't what the nerf posters say though afaik, that's the angry mains who come onto the nerf post's thread to comment that the poster is trying to gut their champion. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

CancerBasedGod2 votes

Thread OP. Delete this thread.

Arya Riven1 votes

Not as OP as Riven :)

Troll for Trump2 votes

Sometimes the champ's identity is just a problem: Azir bully that scales Kalista infinite kiting Yasuo going everywhere Ekko utility assassin

And most of the assassins in general. "Kill ADC/Mage/squishy before they can heal/peel you off means they either do their job right, making it feel good as the player but bad as the kill target, or they're obsolete, with their burst being ignored.

Divewing1 votes

Azir's identity is AoE AP DPS hypercarry with Fuckyou-ulty. Yasuo's identity is basically Anime-samurai.

Azir being a bully and Yasuo going everywhere are extra power that isn't needed as it's not entirely relevant to their theme/fantasy.

Kalista and Ekko are dead on though, though an argument could be made that Ekko is supposed to deal damage in chunks repetitively, rather than straight 100-0ing like traditional assassins, but that's borderline semantics.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Azir's hypercarrying requires on his soldiers, which can only function if he's ranged. The soldiers end up giving him a lot more range than many mages, and this leads him to be a bully(see ranged champs in top lane).

I'm not talking about theme story/lorewise, but gameplaywise(for Yasuo mostly)

Divewing2 votes

The range is (kinda) not so much the issue, is that Q chunks before he starts skewering you.

Believe me when I say, the range is NOT the problem. It has ALWAYS been Q dealing too much damage, and it was balanced after the nerfs until TLords was introduced, which gave Azir MORE burst, which he was NEVER intended to have in the first place.

Yasuo is honestly a weird one for me... I feel like his kit is designed around his fantasy, but as a whole it's not too cohesive barring the "I LOVE KNOCKUPS" shtick. It kinda feels like a case of: "A samurai could do this", more than "Yasuo can do this". His windwall feels like the closest thing to originality in his kit..

Or i'm reading wayyyy too much into it @_@

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Azir's identity is AoE AP DPS Burst Mobility Initiation Mobile Safe Utility Peel Mage. Or at least was, and is why he's in the dumpster.

Arya Riven1 votes

Yasuo's identity isn't a problem. If you nerfed any one of his major tools he would likely be fine. I personally like Exil's idea to remove the double crit, armor pen on ult and make windwall narrower, increase E cooldown. In exchange he thought adding crit damage to his Q, make wind wall move a bit further, and make it so if Yasuo himself knocks up for his ult he gets a small damage buff afterwards. This would force him to build more crit/damage to benefit from it, bringing down his excessively tanky builds, and make him less toxic but not worthless :)

Azir could have been balanced if they decided to focus either on his mobile burst aspect or his peeling siege dps mage aspect. But they went with both so he was busted. But he can be fixed. :)

Troll for Trump1 votes

Those changes make Yasuo only for 1v1s and useless in teamfights, so he'll just end up splitting all game. This is a toxic playstyle Riot does not like, and has previously stated so in the past (unless it was meant to be gimmicky, like Yorick).

Azir has both DPS for tanks and burst for squishies. And he has a ton of range/self-peel. HIs kit's too strong

Arya Riven1 votes

I explain things bad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfYYdQwItyw

He made cool video :) note that he said some of these changes should happen, not all of them.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

Yeah like darius noxian might early game, why gut what makes darius darius just because he's one of the only legitimate counters to this otherwise cancer ass courage tank top lane meta that almost NO OTHER fighter can deal with?

You're already nerfing tanks so we'll start to see light fighters (people who can not only duel but sometimes push darius around) again, so are the nerfs really even necessary? And with courage getting gutted in lane phase, darius won't be using it anymore most likely anyways... And that's his highest winning keystone... The grasp win rate is nowhere near absurdly high or even high in general.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Yep, that -10 AD level 1 is totally a gutting.

Neamean1 votes

Honestly if riot remove the health cost on abilities for Aatrox I would be so happy.

Kingnewgameplus1 votes

"Nice passive dude!"

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