why isnt there any counterplay to flash?

Knight SoIaire ·Jan 18, 2015·6 votes·868 views

everything should have counterplay the only counterplay to flash is another flash, thats invalid

32 Comments

Fury and EmperorJan 18, 20153 votes

What's the counterplay to exhaust?

Knight SoIaire Jan 18, 20152 votes

prolly cleanse and qqs also flash over wall can break the fight any jump is unafected banshe prolly blocks it zhonya

ValyrianBladeJan 18, 20151 votes

Counterplay to flash: Flash any jump is larger, dashes are similar (think graves, lucien, vayne) Ghost can outrun it long term If you know where they are wards (for vision in the above, and for ward jumps)

ZamiakeJan 18, 20151 votes

cleanse and leaps

LearndingJan 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Afgudins Fráuja,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExUcVKiX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-18T13:26:11.400+0000)

What's the counterplay to exhaust?

Not fighting? Baiting, disengage?

Gym Leader YakiJan 18, 20152 votes

Agreed. It sucks HAVING to take flash on almost every champion. We're almost forced to take the same summoners every single game. It would be fun to have an alternative to flash.

RaptameiJan 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wow cc nub,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExUcVKiX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-01-18T13:52:01.022+0000)

We're almost forced to take the same summoners every single game. It would be fun to have an alternative to flash.

I posted about this an hour ago and got flamed for trying to change the game and got -8 instantly.

Given Riot's recent track record, it probably is for the better if they don't touch anything.

Knight SoIaire Jan 18, 20151 votes

riot cant remove flash because its the only thing that contains the community from lashing out at riot for mobility creep

but there is no interaction in flash, as flash stands it was nerfed to have 5 minute cd so that you cant use it too often, thats how op it is, even karthus who just nukes entire enemy team for loads of damage has lower cooldown (thats how powerfull flash is since you cant block it like karthus) in best troll scenario you should flash around 8 times per game if you flash right as the game starts and every time its off cd

so in actual game you get like 3 maybe 4 flashes per game

AtheosisXJan 18, 20151 votes

Why do people overuse the word "counterplay" so much?

Knight SoIaire Jan 18, 20151 votes

then lets replace it with "interaction" its almoust the same concept in this game if you can interact with enemy you can counter him

AtheosisXJan 19, 20151 votes

Let's not. Instead let's accept that a game where every ability is somehow directly counterable is just not realistic. There are a lot of dashes in the game that mimic flash. Do they all need some kind of "interaction" or "counterplay" as well?

EndGamer11Jan 18, 20151 votes

The counterplay to flash is CC, other mobility spells, and vision of the area they flashed to.

Yash GautamJan 18, 20151 votes

It's a summoner spell, it's supposed to give you an advantage. Plus, a lot of champions like ezreal and zed have moves similar to flash.

CG SereNFeb 8, 20151 votes

Yes, but they have to give up one of their 4 spell slots, and were designed with those blinks in mind. That's why blinks aren't a problem, Flash is. Because it gives blinks to people whos' kits weren't supposed to have that capability.

ZahzJan 18, 20151 votes

you do have an alternative to flash in ghost

Gym Leader YakiJan 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you do have an alternative to flash in ghost

No way man. Imagine ghost on ADCs. If you get ganked then you'll start running away? You'll get insta-bursted by the assassin.

ZahzJan 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wow cc nub,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExUcVKiX,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-01-18T14:24:09.309+0000)

No way man. Imagine ghost on ADCs. If you get ganked then you'll start running away? You'll get insta-bursted by the assassin.

i didnt say it was a better option for everything. only an alternative. What would they give u otherwise? If players didnt have flash then anybody without a wall jumping move would never be able to catch anyone

Gym Leader YakiJan 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i didnt say it was a better option for everything. only an alternative. What would they give u otherwise? If players didnt have flash then anybody without a wall jumping move would never be able to catch anyone

Dude it's not an alternative if it's not a decent option. The effectiveness of Ghost on ADCs doesn't even come close to Flash. It's impossible for it to be considered as an alternative, hence this thread.

" What would they give u otherwise?" Are you not paying attention? The whole point of this thread is that there's no other decent optiion or counterplay to Flash. The problem is THERE IS NO CURRENT COUNTERPLAY! That includes Ghost. We need some other summoner spell to give people variety.

ZahzJan 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wow cc nub,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExUcVKiX,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-18T14:47:22.679+0000)

Dude it's not an alternative if it's not a decent option. The effectiveness of Ghost on ADCs doesn't even come close to Flash. It's impossible for it to be considered as an alternative, hence this thread.

" What would they give u otherwise?" Are you not paying attention? The whole point of this thread is that there's no other decent optiion or counterplay to Flash. The problem is THERE IS NO CURRENT COUNTERPLAY! That includes Ghost. We need some other summoner spell to give people variety.

thats the beauty of this game. Multiple roles and playstyles. Adc might not need ghost over flash but thats part of the game. U dont see zeds complaining they dont get any use out of clarity. Flash is there to provide counterplay. I see your point but your only option is to remove it to change. I mean if you were gonna design something to counter flash what would it really be?

Gym Leader YakiJan 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

thats the beauty of this game. Multiple roles and playstyles. Adc might not need ghost over flash but thats part of the game. U dont see zeds complaining they dont get any use out of clarity. Flash is there to provide counterplay. I see your point but your only option is to remove it to change. I mean if you were gonna design something to counter flash what would it really be?

Riot is constantly giving us option for diversity, but Flash seems mandatory no matter what. That's all I'm saying. I would love to be able to have the choice and have equal opportunities. :/

Knight SoIaire Jan 18, 20151 votes

only an alternative

but the case is the same as heal vs barrier why should you take barrier when heal does loads more and the longer cooldown isnt so punishing

Long Dong WukongJan 18, 20151 votes

Flash, other dashes, other teleports, other jumps, ranged CC, any gap closer, wards over walls, anything?

B3ERJan 18, 20151 votes

The counterplay to flash is Akali, but you guys seem to have a problem with that. :P

RebonackJan 18, 20151 votes

Well, you can counter Flash by picking a mobile Assassin with a targeted Silence to disable Fla-

Oh wait.

Riot removed Silence because it prevents flashing away.

Long live League of Mobility!

ZamiakeJan 18, 20151 votes

Counter play LeeSin W Q Q W Moving in front of them R them into your team

Knight SoIaire Jan 18, 20151 votes

w to the ward i suppose qq to me isuppose another w for god knows why but how did you get into a spot to r me into your team (lee isnt the best runner ever) oh wait you prolly flashed , you could use your e but you can just get cc'ed

sorry for hatefull post but thats a big flaw of your argument, if we take kits into account all that lee can do is to flash too

ZamiakeJan 18, 20151 votes

I forget all the skills. Ive hardly played lee's kit since S2-3. I thought the second w was a slow? You would use the slow walk in from of them then ult them into your team. Gonna go play him to confirm

Knight SoIaire Jan 18, 20151 votes

but then it depends on who you face enemy might cc you before you get him also you need fingers of steel to pull that out in the middle of a chase

Hard PenetratorJan 18, 20151 votes

Game is balanced around flash from s2. We all kinda got used to it by now. Reds actually know about this, aren't too happy but idea having 2 summoners alongside flash on every champion would be really hard to balance and it might end up as waste of time.

SalidfingersJan 18, 20151 votes

Don't waste your dash to engage

Leaf of the lakeJan 18, 20151 votes

The counterplay is it's a once-per-five-minute option that has way too many uses to be fully utilized by a player on such a long cooldown. Not everything has to have counterplay, as long as it's something everyone can do. There are some things that can add to the meaningful decisions in a game without necessarily having an overt counter.

Think about competitive fighting games for a moment here, and one mechanic that many many games share in common: Bursting. The ability to break out of a combo and reset the spacing situation to neutral, usually on an ammo system or long charge timer. There's nothing you can really do about this, short of intentionally dropping your combo and blocking the burst. But, it's still balanced, because everyone can do it, and it keeps the game interesting, by adding new options where there weren't any before.

Similarly to intentionally dropping your combo in a fighter, it's possible to bait a flash without ever using any long CDs of your own, just by threatening the foe with a dangerous situation. They're now left without flash for 5 minutes, which should be plenty of time to capitalize on them. You've successfully removed a powerful option from them, so count it as a small win and go from there.