Can we get some more options for jungle items again?

Elite4Runner·Jul 21, 2018·15 votes·8,014 views

Am I the only person that wishes we had Tracker's Knife back?

I actually like having a warding item and a sweeper in my trinket slot.

49 Comments

Warlord RhinarkJul 21, 20188 votes

Ivern Craaaawling in my skiiiiin

BLIGHTBRINGERJul 21, 20184 votes

My inner Ivern player emotions intensify...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YmiNSBXh8jM/maxresdefault.jpg

RiotRiot MapleNectarJul 22, 20187 votes

I think we'd be super unlikely to ever bring back Tracker's, but as a Jungler, what other items would you like to see?

meowwow7Jul 22, 20183 votes

trailblazer.... https://imgur.com/a/3IHrdJA

DeathfallJul 22, 20185 votes

More interactions with plants. Allow the jungler to plant, move, grow and interact with the plant system you implemented in the JG. It seems like the plants are something that junglers can use to maybe set up a play, scout specific areas in their jungle, and so on.

HupsisJul 22, 20187 votes

That sounds like an interaction a new champion could have. Sounds way too powerful to allow all junglers to have access to.

TheSingularityJul 22, 20181 votes

I think giving every jungle smite (and upgraded item) 1 ward would go a long way. Perhaps make it reset on kill/epic monster kill. Or simply each time you recall. Then you could re add trackers, it's purpose to offer one extra ward. Potentially a smite upgrade that stores a control ward that refills every 2 minutes (reduced by 30 seconds every time you clear a camp). It is frustrating to not have access to wards as junglers are generally forced to take item 3364 . The CD is longer but allows you to better control objectives and your own jungle

A big issue atm is that item 3715 is almost always the wrong option, so in reality we have only one smite. However you can't buff it without making it overbearing on everyone, especially jax and yi. Perhaps look at re implementing rangers trailblazer (remove the extra dmg but keep the stun) or poachers knife (perhaps instead of a counter jgling gold item, it could offer movement speed toward buff camps/dragon? idk just letting ideas flow out). New boots? Hunters boots, grants X% movement speed for X seconds upon killing a large monster with smite. Offers same ms as tabi/merc treads (maybe a tad more). Does not stack and is removed when entering any combat

For more variety, perhaps add another tier to jungle items? So they have a late-game item (could be flat stat upgrades) You could perhaps allow one to combine to enchants late-game for a premium price.

Just to add my own agenda in here for a sec ;). Tanks as a whole are struggling greatly everywhere. The scuttle changes really hurt their clear (as they can't oppose fighters, solo dragons and the few camps they can clear are worth so little) and with these recent item changes, the tax they could get post gank isn't worth anything which forces them to steal kills (otherwise it isn't worth setting myself behind). And unfortunately in this meta, cinderhulk just doesn't cut it.

If you could take your mind back to pre jungle smite, where we had the quill coat. I'm not sure why you removed it, but I feel it could greatly impact a tanks ability to jungle vs cinderhulk. Just so you can see the original: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Quill_Coat

Returning item: Quill coat. The item remains mostly unchanged but the ward active, mana regen and hp regen has been removed. And the recipe has been changed. It is now a jungle enchant to replace cinderhulk (and also bami's cinder so we aren't adding a new smite). Quill coat costs 1000 gold Item recipe: Cloth armor (300)+ruby crystal (400)+300 gold. Grants: 20 armor, 150 HP and sapping barbs (passive) Sapping Barbs: Attacking monsters lose 5% of their max health over 3 seconds (up to 150). Owner gains +40 HP regen/5 and +30 mana regen/5 while in combat with monsters.

Then, it’s stats when upgraded with a smite: Total cost, 2625 which is the same as current cinderhulk. Jungle smite (1000)+quill coat (1000)+ruby crystal (400)+ 225 gap Grants: 300 HP (could be reduced to 200) +25% bonus HP+20 armor+10% CDR (2 ruby crystals make a kindlegem gold wise, but having the kindlegem elsewhere in quill coat recipe made the component too $$) +sapping barbs passive (it deals the same damage as quill coat, it DOES NOT get stronger with the upgrade). Then it gets the usual stats from whatever smite you have bought.

Quill coat is not jungler only (so those without smite can pick it). This allows it to be a back up for those who forget to take/switch to smite, but since it is only effective vs monsters it is almost useless to buy in lane. And since the dmg stat is unaffected by other stats, if the clear is too strong it's a simple nerf of stats with some compensation to weaker tanks.

DecritJul 22, 20181 votes

The only thing that comes to mind is allowing interaction with plants. Less than what deathfall said, just having the skill to regrow them would be fine even if i am unsure if that would fit better an item that is no tied to jungle, so also supports can pick it up.

Point is, getting some effects on the jungler item is very risky because then the enemy can see which kind of item you bought and act accordingly: for example, if we were to buy a thing that boosts damage dealt to objectives then the enemy team understands we just want to get dragons and gets some expectations ready while we bought the item. If i remember correctly, poacher's was useless because of this, maybe it's better if there were more runes that improve jungling? Honest question here, i am wondering too.

The only two jungling items that we have enforce the same tactic ( fighting) only with different power scales ( one dueling, one ganking), maybe one that adds another kind of power effect for a different scenario? Roaming, maybe?

AtaxiChaosJul 22, 20182 votes

I have to agree that some form of Tracker's would be a nice addition. There are so many variants of it that could be tried... Places a control ward, places a blue/zombie-style ward, only refills on killing a large enemy-side monster with smite... Really though, I think the best solution would come just from looking at why it was removed in the first place:

Tracker's Knife is almost mandatory in professional play, giving professional teams enough vision to avoid most early-game danger. Bringing it in line would kill it in most games, so for now we're simply removing it.

So, instead of making it a safe early-game vision item, how about we make it an offensive/safety-at-a-risk choice and invert that - turn it into a vision denial item by giving it the old ground-targeted sweeping lens active (Oracle active would feel better but might be too good/low-risk unless gated by a high cooldown). Junglers taking it will still be able to provide some vision with their trinket ward, but it's much less than the original Tracker's Knife.

In terms of other items, there's nothing that immediately comes to mind, but I'd like to see more to encourage counterjungling and early jungle fights (ideally while mitigating the amount of jungle snowballing that comes form it).

KyunseiJul 22, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Etxz9xEp,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-07-22T06:51:45.092+0000)

I think we'd be super unlikely to ever bring back Tracker's, but as a Jungler, what other items would you like to see?

A jungle item based off Tiamat. And/or a crit jungle item based off Zeal.

PheobosJul 22, 20181 votes

If i could chime in here, I would love to see some more jungle enchantments.

For example, a seccond ad jungle item which would build from eighter a phage or a jaurim's fist. a seccond attackspeed item which would build from something like bildgewater cutlass. an ap jungle item which would build from seeker's armguard? and a tank enchantment which would give resistances instead of the bonus health cinderhulk gives?

Its just a few ideas, but I feel like they give a good example of what i ment.

Pokemonred200Jul 22, 20183 votes

Two ideas I'd like to chime in and bring up would be for the return of the Juggarnaut enchantment from early season 5; it gave 500 HP, 10% CDR, and 35% Tenacity but no other stats.

The other return would be a more generalist (maybe Adaptive?) version of the Runeglaive enchantment, which was a jungler's Lich Bane. The item could have been useful on a lot of junglers that used Sheen, but with it being AP it was subpar on champions like Jax or Irelia who would rather have built Trinity Force.

I like your ideas too. A Seeker's Armguard jungle item would be a godsend holy shit

XShadowAlkXJul 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Etxz9xEp,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-07-22T06:51:45.092+0000)

I think we'd be super unlikely to ever bring back Tracker's, but as a Jungler, what other items would you like to see?

I feel like we could have one that incentivizes healthier clears, while still not trying to over buff clear speed. Like maybe a smite enchantment that gives triple the healing from smite and gives more life steal against monsters and drains more hp from monsters? What's unfortunate about the jungle role is that some champions have the damage to clear the jungle but not the durability to stay alive in the jungle role. Kind of like how tanks had the durability to jungle but had too slow of a clear speed before bami's cinder was introduced.

The Yetii RiderJul 22, 20181 votes

I am largely against the existence of item 3706 item 3715 . The Smite summoner spell has a far shorter cooldown than other summoner spells, so giving it combat functions to junglers is like giving them a fifth ability (or an eighth ability in Lee Sin's case).

Riot has introduced champions DESIGNED to gank successfully, like RekSai Elise Rengar Khazix . If these champions really do NEED a point and click MS steal and true damage nuke in order to do their jobs, that is a problem that should be addressed within their individual kits. And if they don't need it, then why do they have it? It simply lowers the skill floor required to gank successfully and artificially inflates the lethality of ganking. There should be more ganks in the game that do not result in a kill and waste the jungler's time.

FlemmanJul 22, 20181 votes

We still miss an ap version of poacher's dirk.

Some champ who like to invade aren't ad based like nunu, nida, heck even some other mage like elise could do it if there was a reward at the end, so having something similar to poacher for them could be a great addition. (an item who evolve into haunting guise or null oblivion orb)

In the regard, maybe changing poacher to evolve into something more generalist for ad champ could be good too (caulfield's warhammer?) so the like of lee sin could opt into it

Pokemonred200Jul 22, 20182 votes

Ranger's Trailblazer, since it was quite good at supporting off-meta picks and gave junglers waveclear at the cost of ganking or dueling strength.

The Spirit Stone line; These could sacrifice the upgraded smites of Stalker's Blade and Skirmisher's Sabre, but could give junglers improved clear speed and gold generation via the Conservastion mechanic, as well as alternate secondary passives to aid junglers (Like SotAG's old Tenacity passive, SotEL's burn effect, and SotSW's Stacking AP or Spell Vamp)

Poacher's Knife. I miss using it for cheese invades, and I think it would find some niche uses on newer junglers like Kayn and Ivern.

And as someone who does like the plants, a jungle item that provides increased interactions with them would be nice.

I'd like to give an honorable mention to Wriggle's Lantern, but given you said Tracker's is very unlikely to come back AND you've said you hate powerfarm junglers, I highly doubt there's any chance anything remotely resembling Wriggle's Lantern will ever be seen as an item again.

If we're talking enchantments though, a jungle item building out of item 3077 for AD champions, and one building out of either item 3086 or item 3122 for crit users would be nice. Having to delay jungle item on a champion that practically requires Tiamat to clear efficiently sucks, and buildpaths for Critical Strike in the jungle suck because of how expensive item 3031 item 3046 item 3087 item 3085 item 3094 are.

TheSingularityJul 22, 20182 votes

The Spirit Stone line; These could sacrifice the upgraded smites of Stalker's Blade and Skirmisher's Sabre, but could give junglers improved clear speed and gold generation via the Conservastion mechanic, as well as alternate secondary passives to aid junglers (Like SotAG's old Tenacity passive, SotEL's burn effect, and SotSW's Stacking AP or Spell Vamp)

Would be down 100%. Gimme back my ancient golem and quill coat. Tanks can clear the jungle again XD

Daddy AntsJul 22, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Etxz9xEp,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-07-22T06:51:45.092+0000)

I think we'd be super unlikely to ever bring back Tracker's, but as a Jungler, what other items would you like to see?

Ranger's Trailblazer
A jungle item or enchantment that has Crit and AS. Helps out Marksman Junglers like Twitch.

BLACK REALM GODJul 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Etxz9xEp,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-07-22T06:51:45.092+0000)

I think we'd be super unlikely to ever bring back Tracker's, but as a Jungler, what other items would you like to see?

a zhonya for junglers.

M00ndanc3Jul 22, 20181 votes

i made a post a while back with some more lane oriented smites, but also some that could work for jg. maybe something like one of these https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/WGbsdjtW-new-smites-for-lane some need tweeking but all in all some would be a fun addition

ModThe DjinnJul 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Etxz9xEp,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-07-22T06:51:45.092+0000)

I think we'd be super unlikely to ever bring back Tracker's, but as a Jungler, what other items would you like to see?

A zeal-based item that might appeal to characters like Twitch/Kindred. Probably ending up as a jungling-based version of either Static Shiv or Runaan's Hurricans, similar to how Cinderhulk mirror Sunfire and Runic Echoes mirrors Luden's Echo.

Ichi Ni SanJul 22, 20181 votes

a good ap jungle item..

UltîmaJul 22, 20181 votes

There needs to be a difference between an AP assassin jungler item and an AP mage variant. The current item 1402 never satisfied those two classes silmutaneously, which always leads to the whole subset of AP junglers to suffer as a whole. It's been pointed out many times before and it would be nice if this was adressed.

Smite buffs were great btw, please bring them back. Doing away with them entire instead of changing the way they functioned after they were "solved" was one of the biggest macro-game let-downs in recent memory.

AximilJul 22, 20181 votes

Can we get the opposite then? Some kind of Sweeper jungle item so our trinket can be wards? I know that's pretty much the exact same thing as bringing back Tracker's. It just feels really bad being forced to choose a combat Smite on a not carry jungler. Tanks and supporty junglers (Ivern and Sejuani for example) don't want either of the existing Smites and would prefer something more utility based.

Agent CorgiJul 22, 20181 votes

If I may:

-Rangers Trailblazer: Bringing this back would allow off meta junglers & champions with low sustain to be able to Jungle again.

-Warrior Enchant: Tanks have Cinderhulk item 1401 , ATK Speed Junglers have BloodRazor item 1416 , AP Junglers have Runic Echoes item 1402 . Warrior Enchantment is still the same as it was back when the enchants were introduced.

SugeMinPikkJul 22, 20181 votes

madstone udyr

aaaustindestroy1Jul 22, 20181 votes

I just want my wolf ghost pet back [sg-janna]

ZackTheWaffleManJul 23, 20181 votes

A jungle item that builds out of Tiamat

Runeglaive

KeshaunJul 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Etxz9xEp,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-07-22T06:51:45.092+0000)

I think we'd be super unlikely to ever bring back Tracker's, but as a Jungler, what other items would you like to see?

I'm not a jungler, but would Red smite ever get nerfed. It has 2 summoners into one buyable item with Exhaust and Ignite. It also does the effect of Blue smite, so there's really not a reason to build Blue smite and Red smite available. I would rather you guys split the Red smite passive into just a different smite item and Red smite gives you burn damage and Purple smite gives you damage reduction.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 21, 20184 votes

LeeSin item 3070

Denims Wrath666Jul 21, 20182 votes

the ONLY CHAMP i felt bad about during this. i don't even play lee but i felt his pain during this nerf he got. and don't say it wasn't a direct fkn nerf to lee sin, because it was.

AnAggravatedPimpJul 21, 20181 votes

Didn't they get rid of that one because it was underused? Legit asking, I forget their reasoning

RanmaruJul 21, 201813 votes

No because it was picked quite a bit in LC$

Daddy AntsJul 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Didn't they get rid of that one because it was underused? Legit asking, I forget their reasoning

It was lowering game and laner interactivity in LCS.

No plays could be made, there was too much vision on the map.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Didn't they get rid of that one because it was underused? Legit asking, I forget their reasoning

Because pro play abused extreme vision control

HayaishiJul 21, 20181 votes

Can the jungle stop deciding games? It's getting old, been like this since season 4.

HügöJul 21, 201813 votes

Calm down hashinshin

BLIGHTBRINGERJul 21, 20182 votes

Lol

Dragau4Jul 21, 20183 votes

Honestly, as a Jungler main, Jungle don't decide games... Of course they can help... but blaming the jungler for losing is the most ridiculous thing ever... I've lost games where I was 11/3 as Lee sin made some sick insec played objective... but my teams were just not having it... Junglers aren't gods, they can,t deal with everything at once, they can't multiply, when 3 lanes are losing and you ganks one the 2 others are still losing and you lose the opposite objective because of that

Rins Thigh SocksJul 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, as a Jungler main, Jungle don't decide games... Of course they can help... but blaming the jungler for losing is the most ridiculous thing ever... I've lost games where I was 11/3 as Lee sin made some sick insec played objective... but my teams were just not having it... Junglers aren't gods, they can,t deal with everything at once, they can't multiply, when 3 lanes are losing and you ganks one the 2 others are still losing and you lose the opposite objective because of that

The top 10 players in NA are currently 4 junglers, 4 toplaners, 1 support, and 1 midlaner.

Smite is by far the most important summoner spell beside Flash.

You might not have the DPS to hard carry games but jungler does so fucking much in terms of map pressure and objective control and I'm really sick of Silver players trying to tell me the jungle role is balanced and that it's their feeding lanes' fault.

You know who else does that? High level jungle mains, who will proceed to int, flame, and afk if you cannot help them with scuttle crab or they lose the objective and you weren't there to help them even if they have a better level 2 than their opponent and still lose it. I've lost so many games because I've had players like Tarzaned who have that same shit attitude about everyone else in their game and throw because they decided their team is incompetent baboons who don't deserve the LP.

So fuck that nonsense, start acting responsible for the games you truthfully simply get outjungled.

Dragau4Jul 23, 20181 votes

Outjungled? Out fucking jungled? you call that outjungled when you get first blood on red/blue of ennemie jg and denies most of his camps while ganking as much as you can? but then you still lose because no matter how many objective you tryna get your team is just so far behind that it'S a 1v4 in terms of dmg

XShadowAlkXJul 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Etxz9xEp,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-07-22T21:01:05.309+0000)

The top 10 players in NA are currently 4 junglers, 4 toplaners, 1 support, and 1 midlaner.

Smite is by far the most important summoner spell beside Flash.

You might not have the DPS to hard carry games but jungler does so fucking much in terms of map pressure and objective control and I'm really sick of Silver players trying to tell me the jungle role is balanced and that it's their feeding lanes' fault.

You know who else does that? High level jungle mains, who will proceed to int, flame, and afk if you cannot help them with scuttle crab or they lose the objective and you weren't there to help them even if they have a better level 2 than their opponent and still lose it. I've lost so many games because I've had players like Tarzaned who have that same shit attitude about everyone else in their game and throw because they decided their team is incompetent baboons who don't deserve the LP.

So fuck that nonsense, start acting responsible for the games you truthfully simply get outjungled.

Well if jungle is so broken why don't you just play jungle and carry yourself to challenger if it's so easy and broken to carry on jungle?

BlakiepugJul 21, 20181 votes

I wish we had more options for support items again too. :( Now it is just item 3069 wards, item 3401 wards, and item 3092 wards...

SepumsJul 21, 20182 votes

Yeah but what about item 2065 item 3109 item 3905 item 3504 item 3107 item 3190 item 3050 ... The new direction for starter support items is imo the best choice riot has made for supports since forever. They retained their old passives, and combined with sightstone so you don't need to sacrifice an inventory slot for it. Sure you don't have the actives, but you don't need them anymore because you have more gold AND you have an ENTIRE INVENTORY SLOT that you can put ANYTHING in. You also don't even need to upgrade them to tier 3 to get the warding passive, you can keep tier 2 items, get the wards AND have more gold to spend on anything.

BlakiepugJul 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but what about ... The new direction for starter support items is imo the best choice riot has made for supports since forever. They retained their old passives, and combined with sightstone so you don't need to sacrifice an inventory slot for it. Sure you don't have the actives, but you don't need them anymore because you have more gold AND you have an ENTIRE INVENTORY SLOT that you can put ANYTHING in. You also don't even need to upgrade them to tier 3 to get the warding passive, you can keep tier 2 items, get the wards AND have more gold to spend on anything.

Say what you will, but the support item changes are a large part of the reason I have stopped playing League. There is so much less variety in support play styles ever since the support starting items were removed. Now it takes longer than before to get to an active item because none build out of the support starting items and not only that but my personal favorite in Face of the Mountain has been entirely removed. I rarely see the items you mention in game as well.

Basically with the support changes earlier this season, the ward bot supports pushed their play style on to everyone else and while you may not have qualms with it because you enjoy that play style, just know that there are players who have been turned very off of the support role thanks to their play styles being not gutted, but straight up removed from the game.

HäxelJul 22, 20181 votes

i mean, proplay was no variety as well as the golditem sightstone fusion was bought every single game cause it gave more utility and a free itemslot for controlwards or another item. Only nonsupports like gp or vlad or some junglers built the active items cause they could also lane with the tier1/2 pretty good.

and how does it take longer? ofcourse if you have never built a sightstone or just afk rushed the activeitem it takes longer. But normaly you went for sightstone and tier 2 golditem before you decided whetver you fuse, built goldactive, built ruby or built any other item. nowadays to take thsi decsion you need 800 Gold less no sightstone). ofcourse finishing the golditem was from that point faster as now starting to build item 3905 / item 2065 , but you also get from these items now far better stats. Plus you can build the items regardless which supporter you play. A taric goes all time relic, but now he has the opportunities for a slow or allie ms boost. Ona soraka it doesn't amtter if youw ant to lane with coin or thief, you can go either active or even both now. Yes, you can now start evenf aster your athenes. Remember ardentmeta, where supports rush adent before anythign else? well now such itemrushs are far easier possible as the needed sightstone is already in the tier 2 item so you no longer need to decide wheter sucha risky move is worth, it is free built in (unless you really wanna skip even tier 2 golditem, that is realy a risky move).

Coming to faceofthemountain, that item was just to much. Like we have now locket, knights vow, the guardian rune and tons of more protection. And we have entchanters as heal and shieldclass: why should tanksupports even be able to protect as good as shieldsupports? they are already most tiems good at engaging and they are tanky so they can tank towerdives and survive long.

DeathfallJul 22, 20181 votes

I don't miss them at all. I would rather they give support champions that are lack an identity an actual identity.

SwiftKitten88Jul 22, 20181 votes

well if we cant have trackers knife... how about item 3364 ?

i mean trackers knife is the obvious answer, as while this is a team game. u cant "control" your teammates.. and if your teammates dont ward.. then.. well your just fucked.

trackers knife allowed us to ward as well as get item 3364 to remove thier vision

now the map is like completely fucking blind if i get even 1 person who doesn't ward.

this is another one of your changes that say "fuck you" to the lower elo players.

WE CANT RELY ON OUR TEAMMATES TO WARD.

Dr DogJul 23, 20181 votes

i honestly just wanna be able to play leesin again, he NEEDS trackers now that sightstone is also gone, you have to decide if you want to ward hop or have any vision at all