Why does Tryndamere remove 80 AD from all surrounding players?

Shroom Junkie··115 votes·8,675 views

I've played Tryndamere, and I personally level my W first. Why? Because by rank 5(probably obtained at level 9), it removes 80 AD from all surrounding enemies. Why is that?

I mean, its not just removing 80 damage from each basic attack on him, but on everyone. Even if it was just him, he doesn't need it. I mean, Tryndamere already has passive damage from his crits, sustain from his Q(though it requires him to remove crits besides items/runes/masteries crit chance), initiate and escape from his E, and an ultimate that literally doesn't allow him to die even under CC. So why does he need to remove probably half of an AD champ's damage? And pretty much all of their base damage. And in an AOE, not even single target. Let's say he's in a 1v1(heck, works with a 2v1 even) with an AD champ. He W's, removes 80 whole damage from the/both champ[s], then as he's getting low on health and the W has worn off, he Q's, if the champ[s] is/are still alive by that point, and take him to almost death, he can just ult and ignore the rest while he finishes them off. Plus, commonly Tryndameres build lifesteal for more sustain.

I mean, base damage on Aatrox at level 9 is 89 damage(90 if rounded up). So, Tryndamere W's, and Aatrox now deals 9 damage for 4 whole seconds. Wtf? I don't know about anyone else, but I find this is a serious problem for someone that already has enough sustain as it is, and is unkillable for 5 seconds. Why does he need to ruin all AD champs, even in team fights?

203 Comments

AFK Push28 votes

He exists just to make Riven mains cry themselves to sleep.

AbrahamBaconham18 votes

Coulda sworn Riven was one of his worst match ups for a good chunk of the game... Besides, Riven mains don't need him to feel like crying. They can get that from spending more than 20 seconds on the boards.

Commander Simmon14 votes

If he didnt have the ad reduction most ads would just insta burst him because Tryndamere is terrible with tank items

project57113 votes

His w is perfectly fine. It reduces ad in an area, but the cd on it is long enough that you can disengage, if necessary, and then turn on him again. Most people have a problem with his ult and that is still perfectly fine too. 5 seconds is really short and he can still be cc'd and damaged during this time so a lot of tryndameres are still almost dead while ult is ticking making him die very quickly once it wears off. He may have a heal but there are plenty of champs with a heal who are countered by ignite, specific champ abilities (Kat's ult and Fizz w for example) and even items. One major part about league is building to fit your champion and fighting your opponents. If you want to win a fight you would build magic resist against a full ap team, not armor. For trynd you can get morellos or something that slows his attack speed and gives armor cough randuins/frozen heart cough. Or you can even get ninja tabi if they have a majority of ad on their team. If you are playing in blind pick and you end up against him and he counters you, well that is the luck of the draw in blind pick (I have seen many people pick melee top laners and get countered and destroyed by ranged). But in ranked or draft norms you can probably counter him or adjust runes and masteries. In teamfights you should mostly be fine considering you are 5 people and at least one person should have some way of holding back tryn. The only thing I would consider a little crazy on tryn is the passive crit chance. 35% is a lot considering phantom dancer gives the same amount of crit and costs a lot. He can have the passive filled up early game and not heal as much in return for dealing some damage on his opponent hoping for RNGesus to bless him with the crits. I have fought plenty of tryndameres and played him enough to know he gets stomped easily. A good example a was a nasus game a while back. My whither countered his attack speed and movement and my q countered his ad reduction. He isn't broken, people just need to learn to fight him. Pretty straightforward and easy to do.

LICENSED HOOKER11 votes

item 3075

Arveanor2 votes

That'll kill tryndamere! Kappa.

EvilRabbitt7 votes

item 3075 item 3110 item 3083 item 3065 item 3047 item 3102 DrMundo
Challenge: Anger Tryndamere, accepted.

Arveanor4 votes

Ok, I'm not saying that I have the experience in top lane to say tryndamere isn't balanced, but is there actually a realistic way that mundo gets to 6 items against tryndamere?

EvilRabbitt4 votes

Realistically? Yes. Muchly so yes. Tryn dives Mundo, Mundo pops ult and just afk kites him after landing one Q. Turret body block so strong.

Arveanor3 votes

and if trynd doesn't dive?

Also, isn't just getting to 6 a struggle for mundo against someone like tryndamere?

seredhras3 votes

Malphite item 3047 item 3110 item 3075 item 3143 item 3102item 3717

Apollocliptic2 votes

400 amour (assuming runes and masteries) seems a bit much, I'm sure you could drop one of those for an ap damage dealing item? item 3001 for example would increase malph's damage AND increase damage from Thorn or item 3165 not as great synergy with Malph but cripples trydamere's healing.

YOU BEEN WARNED11 votes

Yeah, let's nerf Trynd's best ability for contributing in teamfights so he can be the face of split pushing itself, great idea!

Zone of Endless10 votes

Did I just really read someone saying Tryn is an initiator?

You have to be an idiot to get initiated on by Tryn. You can kite him so easily it's not even funny. What kind of team comp are people running that doesn't have CC? Even a slow would work against him. ADC now have so much mobility/way to escape. On top of that you have support that have CC to stop him. Jungler that can stop the rest of the enemy from piling on so in most situation it will be the support+adc vs tryn. Lulu can slow him and W him while giving a shield and an ult. Janna alone will make him cry. Even Sona can W chord to reduce his DPS. Hell, even Taric can stop him because of the stun which is ample time to stop tryndamere. So what if he has QSS or w/e? Your team has more than 5 CC i'm pretty sure unless your team comp is made up of mord, nid, ez, and soraka or something.

Remlap12237 votes

Because Tryndamere is a textbook definition "unfun" champion to play against. Only a clutch silence before he can cast his ultimate will save you from his roflstomping. If you fail, well, Tryndamere is going to rage at you til you die, and his lack of counterplay will make you want to rage quit.

Narasimha34 votes

Just to jump in, Trynd's ultimate isn't affected by ANY CC. Stun, silence, even supression. As long as its off cc, and you don't burst him down before he can react, he can always cast Undying Rage.

Remlap12239 votes

What? Are you shitting me? That's broken as fuck.

Narasimha35 votes

Well, yeah, it kind of has to be. What else can he do? He has one damaging ability, and that's typically used for mobility. Otherwise, ALL of his damage comes from autoattacks, which means effects from Thornmail, Randuin's, FH, and Morello absolutely cripple him. And it's not like he's even unique. All melee carries have a defensive strength so they can match up against their ranged counterparts. Fiora goes untargetable on her ult, and has a counter. Yi gets super speed and slow immunity, plus his heal. Yas has the windwall and his shield. Jax has his dodge and his defensive steroids.

EvilRabbitt3 votes

Thank you for being logical ^.^ You forgot poppy, but still =D Nice.

NinjaFifer2 votes

Poppy has an ult that is so uncounterable in teamfights that she has to be nerfed into the rework level of unviability. Takes a real main now to get her to stand toe to toe with most top laners.

Mandang011 votes

Idk who downvoted this, because it's 100% true. Doesn't matter if Tryn's OP or not, his play pattern is aggravating to play against. It's just a stupid game of whack-a-mole, the same game that proxy Singed got nerfed for once upon a time.

I Main Swain5 votes

the problem is with crit chance tho, not tryndamere. all they need to do is change crit chance to % bonus damage and maybe change his numbers a little to fit the change and he would be entirely fine. he himself has no problems.

Mandang03 votes

I wasn't even talking about crit chance, I was talking about how he just PvE's all game long and forces someone on the other team to do the same. I couldn't care less about the crit chance or people who think RNG has it out for them.

I Main Swain5 votes

personally, I don't really see much of a problem with that. there are a whole lot of champs that just PvE all game because they know it's where they are best served. it's a playstyle that has little to do with the champ outside of how good their clear is, how fast they take towers, and how hard they are to catch. I do it all the time on guys like Teemo Shen Trundle Nasus Veigar Olaf because I can do it effectively and it increases my team's chances of winning a good portion of the time.

Zair Umbras1 votes

If you changed it to do % bonus damage instead, we'd have to nerf every single champion that AA's, has an AA reset, and don't even think about what it'd cause Nasus to do.... They removed his Q's ability to crit a long time ago for a god damn reason. Don't make crit affect it again...

I Main Swain2 votes

...what? why would they need to nerf people for it? if anything they would need to buff champions for which crit is a huge part of their identity. I honestly don't follow your logic here in the slightest...

Zair Umbras2 votes

Because crit is only on very specific champions, usually ADC's and currently three melee's, those melee's being Tryn, Yi, and Yas.

If you made crit simply give flat AA damage, the champions who AA, but prefer sustained damage over luck damage like Jax, Aatrox, WW, and even Kalista would find the new stat to be too good to be true, especially since all of those champs also have AS steroids already, so all they'd need is base damage. Crit is something that's poorly designed, but necessary.

NinjaFifer3 votes

Na man, crit would change to % increase to AA damage. Think of it this way: If your AA's deal 100 damage, you have 20% crit chance, and crits double damage, and you attack 10 times, 8 regular and 2 crits hit for 1200 damage. With no crit chance, it's only 1000, so 20% crit chance (with no Infinity Edge) directly equals 20% increased damage, if you average it out over time. That's what people want in this game: less chance of getting the lucky crit or two off in a trade and snowballing it from there.

Zair Umbras2 votes

The thing about that though is that some champs scale better with flat damage to increase their AA's by flat amounts while others do better with crit. If you change crit to just be a flat percent, then champions who AA a lot and benefit from flat sustained damage would be able to pick up those items and all of sudden, they're a lot scarier because they're running off of pure, reliable damage. Huge reliability is something a lot of people don't like for obvious reasons and considering AA's are already incredibly reliable as-is, to make their damage completely reliable would... be a bit too scary.

NinjaFifer2 votes

You're still not getting it. It's a percent increase to damage, so if you're just functioning off of base damage then you get very little return. If you have just Phantom Dancer (ignoring the attack speed boost, since we're not talking about DPS here) and full tank for instance, the 35% crit chance is giving you 35% increased damage, if you consider lots of attacks. If all you have is base damage (say 100 base AD for simple math's sake), then you're getting 35 damage on hit if we switch to a straight-up percent increase to damage. That's no different than getting 3-ish 200 damage AA's in over 10 attacks, in terms of your total damage output. If you built a Bloodthirster you'd be at 180 damage and all of a sudden PD is giving you 63 damage on hit, which is still no different, long-run, than getting 360 damage AA's 35% of the time. This is not a Feral Flare/Wit's End thing, where it's just straight flat damage on hit. This is based on your current AD.

If you're saying, instead, that if sustained damage dealers like Jax, etc... get some more damage on AA instead of the random crit, they would be more scary, then I would disagree with you. I would much prefer the Ashe treatment, so I could expect my opponent or myself to deal a certain and predictable amount of damage with AA's. The couple of times that you get 2 crits off in 3 AA's with only 10% chance, or that happens against you, are way more rage inducing than some extra on-AA damage.

Jazzy Jesus2 votes

I'm not sure, but I believe he means that they need to change Tryndamere's Rage bar to give him bonus damage instead of crit chance the more it's filled.

I don't know what YOU thought it meant, but judging by HIS reply, you were wrong.

Zair Umbras3 votes

Most complain about crit as a stat, which is what he sounded like since he didn't specify changing Tryn's passive crit chance, he only stated 'change crit chance'

Akesgeroth7 votes

Truth be told, because I don't think the devs thought about the impact of Trynd maxing W first. His Q used to heal for much more and his E has remained a high damage dash for a while, so people saw little good in maxing W first.

I think a proper analysis of how disruptive this really is would be appropriate. If it needs a nerf, there are two avenues:

  1. W now reduces AD by a percentage instead of a flat amount.

  2. W's damage reduction scales with Trynd's level instead of W's rank.

But that's an interesting point you brought up. Of all the things in his kit, the AD reduction on his W has never been something I really thought about.

Kill eem4 votes

BECAUSE HE CAN !!!

KING ATTILA3 votes

lmao these QQ Tryn threads are hilarious

I Main Swain1 votes

did you even read the thread? even a little bit? not even the first 3 words?

KING ATTILA1 votes

I main Tryn so nothing is wrong with him. Ppl just don't know how deal with a melee champ like Tryn....cough cough Malphite. There are not enough Tryn players and even good Tryn players to have this ve a real issue lmao bronzies

Hard Penetrator3 votes

Tryn is terrible teamfighter till late game, he is mainly splitpusher and excels in small fights. His W while being actually really powerfull is rarely used up to its full potential simply because of how rarely Tryn will want to face multiple opponents. It is also his only skill that can support his team while he is useless.

Still your points are fair and I imagine that if more ppl will use him, hitting W is probably first spot that will nerf him without hurting him too much.

Grappoz Cóck2 votes

I tend to max q first for better kill potential and sustain in laning phase because if I'm correct w has a long cd, but I do max it second because of the 5 man ad decrements in team fights, but I could be wrong, don't play top much.

Lord Dusteon3 votes

{quoted}

I tend to max q first for better kill potential and sustain in laning phase because if I'm correct w has a long cd, but I do max it second because of the 5 man ad decrements in team fights, but I could be wrong, don't play top much.

Generally you always max Q first (massive sustain and a nice AD boost), then max W if against an opponent that uses AD and E if facing an opponent that doesn't.

Criomhthann2 votes

Because, like many melee champions, he is very poorly designed (regardless of how balanced he is).

For those who don't understand the difference between being well designed and being well balanced, play Starcraft II. Generally well balanced, but very poorly designed. Protoss is balanced but the design is a fucking crime against humanity.

Tis a nice day1 votes

As someone who knows what starcraft is but hasn't played much of it, how is Protoss badly designed?

Criomhthann2 votes

Sorry for the extremely late response.

The general problem with Protoss is that the nature of FF and Warp Gates is that it meant a significant portion of the game had to be balanced around protoss.

The Pylon generated a field that Protoss had to build their structures on, but with the Warp Gate (WG) upgrade, all Gate Way units could be made anywhere where a Pylon or the Protoss transport unit generated a Power Field. Once warp gate was researched, all WG unit build times were made back ended rather than front ended. What that means is that while a Terran making a Marine would hit the hot key and wait 15 seconds for a Marine to be made, a Toss would hit the hotkey and make a Stalker in 5 seconds, and then wait 20 seconds for that gateway to be able to make another Stalker (all those numbers were bullshitted in order to show the concept; I don't remember their exact build times).

This meant that a Toss rush would be making units much closer to your base, and any attempt to harass the Protoss could be responded to with a big warp in in base.

As a counter balance, Gate Way units were made to be shit. Zealots were never able to be anything other than the cheapest form of toss harass via warp in, and in all other capacities were meat shields, even with charge. The stalker was a mildly fast ranged unit that couldn't take much damage and did less damage overall than basic worker units; in the mid game, Stalkers gain access to blink; basically a very low CD flash).

To counter balance that, the Protoss had a Gate Way unit called the Sentry. The sentry was a ranged low damage unit that had two usages, make a defensive shield in a wide area around itself that reduced all incoming damage by 2 and Force Field (FF).

The shield spell was situational but could be highly effective in some situations; getting +1 Armor and than using their shield would reduce Marine damage on Zealots from 5 to 1. Their big spell was Force Field; an ability that prevented none burrowed ground units from traveling within an effected area for 15 seconds. This allowed Toss to split armies and engage them piece-meal, or block off pathways and prevent ground attacks from occurring or preventing flanking, etc.

However, Toss units were all very expensive in terms of minerals, gas and supply. Terran and Zerg could simply overrun them with enough shit. So maps were deliberately made to have lots of tiny choke points and choked off ramps that gave protoss an edge in the early game in those areas.

Toss would still be overrun in open areas, so to compensate for the low single target damage, Protoss was given two units with massive AoE. High Templar's had a spell called Psionic Storm, which dealt 80 true damage to everything within the effected area over two seconds, in ticks of 0.5 seconds (game speed was also sped up for some reason; In Starcraft 2, two seconds was more like one real life second). Very few units that would make up the bulk and any opposing races force could survive a full storm.

They were also given the Colossus, a unit with 5 range (9 range with the mandatory upgrade) that did 20 damage twice to all units in a line.

Most of the WoL life had toss strategies built around using the Sentry to either survive the early game, or all in with warp gates, unless the opponent was another Protoss; than Gateway and Warp Gate all ins were a requirement. If that failed, they had to rely entirely on Colossi and High Templar's with Blink Stalker support in the mid game. Super late game strategy was centered around the Archon Toilet, except toss versus toss, which became war of the worlds via colossi.

The Archon Toilet was a wombo combo.

The Protoss Mother Ship possessed a spell called vortex, which sucked all units (friend or foe) into the space of one pixel. All units effected were invulnerable for the duration of the spell, and upon the end of the spell, would show up within the space of one pixel and quickly spread out as unit collision kicked in.

The Archon was a unit made by merging two Templar's (High or Dark or both), that had a low range medium speed attack that did 40 damage (45 to bio units) as a splash attack.

So the Protoss would cast Vortex on the opposing army, and then send in 6 to 10 Archon's into the vortex. The moment vortex ended, the Archon's would all attack, dealing between 240 and 450 damage to the ENTIRE ARMY. This usually resulted in the opposing forces Army supply dropping from 200/200 (maxed out) to 60/200 (only workers remain) while the toss was still at 200/200. The ability was eventually nerfed versus ground armies but still remained not only effected, but necessary against Air Based late game composition.

AscensionBoi1 votes

It will remove 80ad if you are chicken. If you have balls and actually face him nothing will happen. Learn to play game noob than do lame threads!

Lord Dusteon60 votes

{quoted}

It will remove 80ad if you are chicken. If you have balls and actually face him nothing will happen. Learn to play game noob than do lame threads!

No. It removes AD in a radius no matter what, and if your back is turned adds a heavy slow for the duration.

Ser Garland22 votes

A thought: Isn't the Tryndamere technically the chicken for stabbing people in the back?

Pæan43 votes

Shaco of course not!

BlackSunNocturne8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EsWuRhse,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-06-14T16:52:19.962+0000)

A thought: Isn't the Tryndamere technically the chicken for stabbing people in the back?

No. If he was designed around stabbing people in the back (Shaco) THEN he'd be a chicken. There's no dishonor in killing a coward who flees from you.

LordGeovanni2 votes

barbarians are supposed to chase down their prey and leave no survivors there is honor among theives not honor among barbarians

RetroRage964 votes

It is considered honorable (depending on the barbarian) to finish off all enemies.

And it just feels so damn good! Sion.

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