Like, she feeds insanely hard early and then it's either she scales in late and becomes unstoppable or she doesn't and she made the game a 4v5. I don't think it's ok that Kayle has been left to be this feast/famine for this long without so much as a peep about changing her.
...and Teemo. Should change Teemo while we're at it.
DoktorKaiser19 votesBecause she is a late game hypercarry. At least she is immobile unlike someone cough cough 
cough
chipndip14 votesJust because you're late-game oriented doesn't mean your kit has to be so busted that you're a feast/famine balancing nightmare that makes the game a toss-up between hard feeding and hard feeding but winning anyway by spamming one button (E) and coming out on top by virtue of numbers.
Jbels3 votesJust because you're late-game oriented doesn't mean your kit has to be so busted that you're a feast/famine balancing nightmare that makes the game a toss-up between hard feeding and hard feeding but winning anyway by spamming one button (E) and coming out on top by virtue of numbers.
I mean, Kat was the same way for a good 2 seasons. Kayle USED to be the most broken burst champ in the game with her stupid single target Q's doing 500 damage and her lichbane proc doing like 800
chipndip13 votesKat's an assassin, though. Assassins in general have had this issue, and Riot's finally found a way to generally fix that. Why is Kayle more feast/famine than assassins are?
SithesisLord2 votesShe isn´t? Her early game isn´t a thing of beauty like Riven's and Pantheon's is, but it isn´t utterly non-existent either. It´s average, at best. Her mid game is somewhat like Nasus. There but not there. Her late game, if farmed enough truly is a thing of beauty.
She's far from feast or famine. And the champion itself is fine, considering the bloated winrate, courtesy of her mains and OTPs being the only ones playing her. People who do poorly on Kayle are people who pick her simply for her winrate.
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesShe is exactly what feast or famine means. If she for whatever reason gets fed in lane she snowballs so hard out of control you won't be able to stop her splitpush with less than 3 members. Because she reaches a part of her lategame hypercarry potential in 25 mins. If you set her back and she needs to farm up it is basically a 4v5 until she reaches her full build in 40 mins+. This IS feast or famine and it is horrbile. Vayne is kinda the same way. If she for whatever reason (well her Q changes made this matter even worse) gets fed durting laning phase and comes out with IE+SHIV the game is basically over...
Wolfram Oxford2 votesBecause of itemization for her. She is an auto attack reliant champion with heavy DPS and AoE. As we know that combo is quite scary come late game. 
Anyways, if you don't have items you are going to do bad, if you have items you are strong as fuck. Maybe make her more level reliant and less item dependent would be a start to fixing the problem you see.
Ariel the Cruel4 votesThere's more to it than just late game oriented. Kayle has a lot of hats. She's a mage/ADC/Support Hybrid with a transferable tank ult. Versatility alone is a good reason to gate her (see Sona), then she is a hyper carry AoE DPSer too boot. Her kit has the potential to overrun games which is why she is gated so hard.
chipndip12 votesThat's what I've been trying to convey to people in this thread, but it seems like not a lot of people are believing me. She should be changed so the gated period isn't so heavy, and the release after the gating isn't so bloody broken.
Fatalitý7 votesBecause she is a late game hypercarry. At least she is immobile unlike someone cough cough
atleast vayne doesn't have a 2 second invulnerability
Spoofghoul1 votesexcept without pinks(which nobody got room for come late game) she does have 1 second untargetability
Ariel the Cruel3 votes
That's what supports slaves are for. They never reach six items anyways!
Frius7 votesatleast kayle doesnt Q you for 50% hp .
AirKingNeo9 votesUnless she's building Full AP.
Knoyle6 votesI'm fairly certain even the ADC won't lose more than 30% from a full ap Kayle Q.
AirKingNeo7 votes
That's where you're wrong kiddo.
Wolfram Oxford5 votes
???
AirKingNeo5 votesNo she has a 1 second invis every 2 seconds and soon to be unpinkwardable.
GilGaMeSh Jr3 votesand now new duskblade too. RIP.
Ariel the Cruel3 votesSome one did math on this somewhere (I'm not going to look for it right now). Maximizing the new duskblade would increase her true damage but reduce her total DPS. So it gives her damage options more flexibility, but shouldn't out-right break her in terms of damage output.
GilGaMeSh Jr1 votesthat's good to hear. :)
Wolfram Oxford2 votes3 second invulnerability, get your facts straight -.-
HateDaddy8 votesWhat do you mean feeds early? She shits on like 90% of the top lane roster and has one of the best early games. Maybe not in mid but Kayle should really only be used as a counterpick in mid.
chipndip12 votesI've tried to have faith in these Kayles, man, but they all just feed. Never fails. It's probably because she doesn't have too much of a game plan if she gets caught during laning, and it takes a bit before her E is perma-up so she can keep her spacing up. That and she's easy to gank + her E pushes lanes seeing how it's an aoe.
It's a bit like Yasuo: On paper, you'd think she'd be fine...and then someone plays her...
HateDaddy3 votesI've tried to have faith in these Kayles, man, but they all just feed. Never fails. It's probably because she doesn't have too much of a game plan if she gets caught during laning, and it takes a bit before her E is perma-up so she can keep her spacing up. That and she's easy to gank + her E pushes lanes seeing how it's an aoe.
It's a bit like Yasuo: On paper, you'd think she'd be fine...and then someone plays her...
I mean, with her ult she is always relevant no matter what. But the rest of her kit is a cluster fuck of stats and point and click fuckery, so I'm totally up for Kayle being reworked.
AirKingNeo2 votesBarely anyone plays Kayle. I mean shit happens sometimes and she feeds but not always.
PermabannedGaren1 votesWhat do you mean feeds early? She shits on like 90% of the top lane roster and has one of the best early games. Maybe not in mid but Kayle should really only be used as a counterpick in mid.
This tbh.
What the fuck is this guy talking about with this "Kayle feeds early" shit lol.
That she also outscales most of the top lane roster with her high DPS and incredibly powerful and useful ult is just icing on the cake.
Pierce The Veal7 votesCan we fucking stop complaining about champions that have gameplay that is actually different from this fucking formulaic gameplay Riot's been imposing. Do you guys actually think changing every champion to be entirely "skill based" and "not feast or famine" and "not toxic" is fucking fun? Do you wonder why the pro scene is so god fucking damn boring? I don't even care for Kayle, hut you guys are just asking for the game to be turned into CoD at this point.
chipndip13 votesI mean, yeah, look at the pro scene and what do you see? Mostly champs that have some degree of variance to balance with. Champs with very little room for error are forced into having bad early games in comparison to others in their lane, and that makes them less likely to be picked in the pros outside of rare instances.
There's a good deal of factors on top of that, but Riot can't make a champ like Kayle good for pros unless you want her to be stupid busted in normals. Same thing happened with Sona. Riot just likes shoving champs into that "scaling" corner without really giving it a second thought.
Pierce The Veal2 votesAnything that had legitimitely different and perhaps not so flash gameplay has been removed.
Skarner's perma slow tanking.
Poppy's welfare wage to hyper carry.
Sion's spellshield popper build/ his slow but dangerous rip your face off AD build (500 AD, 2.0 AS, 100% lifesteal, 70% crit, pls).
chipndip12 votesSo you're upset that Riot removed the archaic kits that had no counter-play that were purposefully made shitty so they wouldn't overrun the game? THOSE are the kits you like?
I guess that's why you like Kayle...
Pierce The Veal1 votesSo you're upset that Riot removed the archaic kits that had no counter-play that were purposefully made shitty so they wouldn't overrun the game? THOSE are the kits you like?
I guess that's why you like Kayle...
No. I hate that they're just constantly reworking them without trying to maintain different playstyles. Everything is being put into line. Every champion in a role now does almost entirely the same thing, with the only things that differ being specifics and animations.
Anything that varies from the norm is either nerfed out of gameplay or reworked to no longer be different.
I don't necessarily like Kayle. And I don't necessarily like thos "old and toxic kits," but I just hate how literally everything is more of the same nowadays in league. What's overrunning league are all these 1 cc+ 1 mobility spell kits, three hit passives, "skill requiring gameplay," knockups everywhere, and damage on everything (even more for ADCs ayyyyy, 1800+ damage crits and true damage autos are balanced guys).
And yet instead of recognizing that these changes to champions to make them less "toxic" is making the gamestale, people who do like variety are insulted for liking that each champion can have their niches and playstyle completely different from other champions.
chipndip11 votesThen with this said, why are you complaining at all? Poppy, Sion, and Skarner are all very unique in how they play and what tools they use to get their jobs done. Like...what is this complaint? You're just complaining that they aren't played in an archaic fashion with outdated balancing philosophies.
Pierce The Veal2 votesYou're just complaining that they aren't played in an archaic fashion with outdated balancing philosophies.
... I have no words. Completely changing a champions' identity, and then turning them into generic CC tanks with bruiser capability is unique how?
They're all impossible to balance now. Skarner is always strong, and Sion and poppy both alternate between weak and too strong. That's indicative of perfectly functional new balancing principles.
Plus you've only been around for this season and the last. You don't know squat about the past.
chipndip11 votesYou're just understating their kits to make them seem like they're similar. Sion's a Vanguard, an offensive tank, while Poppy's a Warden, a defensive one. That distinction already sets the two apart. Poppy's cc is strong to use against incoming attackers, especially those that rely on dashes, while Sion uses his cc to force team fights. Sion can land massive slows from long distances while Poppy can really only slow things that are right in front of her. Sion and Poppy aren't the strongest during the late game, but Poppy can hang back and peel at that stage. There's very distinct differences to what the two do. Also, Poppy's not too strong or too weak right now. What's your deal?
Besides, I don't need to be around longer than I have to know that many of the older kits are outdated, and Riot knows this. That's why they purposefully leave most of them in the dirt, seeing how they don't fit the company's current balancing philosophies. That's the truth of it.
Marshbouy4 votesWelcome to gold scaling champions.
AirKingNeo4 votesSince when was Kayle extremely feast or famine?
Like if she dies twice in a row in a short span of time, just like any other champion, she's already far behind. If she gets up 2 kills, just like everyone else, she's pretty far ahead.
She only has 3 problems that need to be addressed, for the better or the worse. Lack of MR per level, no passive, and her ultimate.
Ariel the Cruel2 votesno passive
I realize people have issues with invisible power but, 3-15% armor/magic resist shred (not pen) is a far cry from nothing.
AirKingNeo1 votesI want you to play Kayle and fight Maokai, and tell me if you see a noticeable increase in damage from your passive (Not Fervor of Battle).
Ariel the Cruel1 votesAssuming 100 armor and 1000 health VS 100 AD.
15% armor shred would reduce that armor to 85. Dropping their effective health from 2000 to 1850. This reduces her AA's to kill from 10 to 9 (8.5 but is has to stack up). More significant is the fact that her passive is "shred," not "pen". In effect. Everyone now does 15% more damage to that target just because Kayle is AA'ing them.
Her passive is really strong, but it's not something anyone is likely to notice in game. Hence why it is classified as "invisible" power. We run into the same problem with auras. It's worth mentioning (though I guarantee someone will misrepresent this) that Cleaver shreds 30% armor and wit's shreds 25 flat MR. Kayle gets half their effects for free.
AirKingNeo1 votesExcept Cleaver is noticeable because it's a higher number. Kayle barely benefits from armor shread.
Wit's End is flat pen, her passive is %. Flat pen is WAY better vs squishies.
Ariel the Cruel1 votesWithin the given scenario, Cleaver would reduce the AA's to kill from 10 to approximately 8. One better than Kayle's passive. Is it more noticeable? Yes. In a fight, do you or your allies calculate the damage from each AA as the shred amount increases? No. Pen/Shred is a hard thing to track in the moment. People know what cleaver does, but I doubt most people are actually crunching the numbers enough to notice the effect by the time they've reached 6 AA's.
AirKingNeo1 votesCan't we just agree that Kayle's passive feels really crappy and that we should change it.
Something like Gains 120% of crit chance as AP and gains 5% attack speed per 50 AP. Something involving AP, AS, and maybe crit.
Ariel the Cruel1 votesI personally don't have an issue with her passive. But if it were to change, it would make more since to apply something more visible than free stats.
INoble KnightI2 votesShe needs items to do anything so her early to midgame are weak. Late game she wrecks with the right items
chipndip16 votesBeing a late game carry is one thing. Being so bad you almost undoubtedly ruin everyone's early game with how much you snowball nearly any opposing laner is totally different. I don't need a Kayle on my team that's going to ruin my chances of winning by feeding a ton of gold and being useless almost all the time. What good is a champ that's nearly guaranteed to be shit until 40 minutes?
It's not the fact that's the issue. It's the degree.
ShaolinToilet5 votesYou just play with bad people. Has nothing to do with the champion.
Stray Kat2 votesBeing a late game carry is one thing. Being so bad you almost undoubtedly ruin everyone's early game with how much you snowball nearly any opposing laner is totally different. I don't need a Kayle on my team that's going to ruin my chances of winning by feeding a ton of gold and being useless almost all the time. What good is a champ that's nearly guaranteed to be shit until 40 minutes?
It's not the fact that's the issue. It's the degree.
This is extremely biased, and franky a bit absurd.
I run Attack Speed and Ability Power runes/masteries on Kayle, and have for several seasons.. And I've never had a problem of just feeding through the early. That's user error, not champ error. I'm often even able to BULLY my opponent with her. It's a matter of knowing how to CS with her, when to avoid trying to fight, etc.. But I've never had a problem of just blatant early feeding, except against certain matchups or just doing badly. I actually find her early game to be quite easy, even if it is a bit underwhelming. Easy to CS from range with the AOE AA(If you switch targets each AA, for instance, the entire caster minion wave goes down after a few autos even early game.). The main problem is that she pushes the wave.. But if you're smart that's not a big problem, and works to your advantage as you press Alt+W and speed off toward's another lane while your's is pushed.
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