What was the point with the entire rework when his reworked ultimate makes him do EXACTLY what he used to to pre-rework? I'm just curious. And an ex-Aatrox main.
I want oldtrox back damn it :(
usul120225 votesYea, but new aatrox still has mechanics and fight conditions like landing w and hitting q sweet spots. I was under the impression that the main problem with old aatrox was that his w turned him into a stat checked drain tank, which isn't a healthy spot to be.
Mavëríck7 votesYea, but new aatrox still has mechanics and fight conditions like landing w and hitting q sweet spots. I was under the impression that the main problem with old aatrox was that his w turned him into a stat checked drain tank, which isn't a healthy spot to be.
I've mained him pre rework up to now. He's back to being a drain tank full stop. The only difference is he's a caster that weaves in auto attacks, not an auto attacker that uses abilities when needed anymore.
usul12022 votesI think that's a healthier spot to be in for this case. Before his abilities only existed to gap close and stay on someone, so if he was going to win the fight, then that was it. I think where he currently is at places him as a drain tank with counterplay (bait the w/get out, avoid q sweet spots, fight if he wastes e), and that's a big step up imo.
Axzarious1 votesThe other difference is that his old voice and quotes still remain superior.
Spicy Rice8 votesHonestly, right before they reworked him, he was in a good spot.
He was a lane bully who could transition to a late game monster, provided he got enough gold early. At the same time, if you knew how to play around his blood well, he wasn't too overbearing
usul120216 votesThey managed to make him balanced strength-wise, which was impressive, but it still wasn't healthy imo. He has counterplay potential now beyond picking the right fight.
DCYOUNG8882 votesI agree with what you just said. I liked his kit before also but I remember Riot did mention he was bound to get reworked because like you said despite it being a balanced kit it wasn't necessarily healthy because of his on-hit drain tanking. The rework was meant to give him some counterplay windows on when he heals or damages best and unfortunately had to remove most of his autoattacking part of the kit because of said drain tanking problems (think pre-mage rework vladimir and to an extent old warwick).
I remember a Rioter did mention on a tweet after seeing Doublelift's video on the constantly evolving league game that had Aatrox still been in his pre-reworked state (and no rework was releasing) he would have been nerfed because of the presence he had in pro play. That said Aatrox would have still been a balance problem no matter what would have happened.
Eleshakai3 votesA lane bully shouldn't transition into a late game monster unless super fed... that's basically saying he had no weaknesses. That's the point of a lane bully. They generally start strong, level out in the mid-game, and have a huge trough late-game.
LTK KoRo2 voteslaughs in ranged top
gabetheguy1 votesranged tops other than maybe 
or 
are all pretty ass lategame.
LTK KoRo1 votes
gabetheguy2 voteslol vayne top
Eleshakai1 votesI'm not saying every champ is appropriately balanced right now. The game has some champs that are overpowered. However, the existence of poorly balanced champions does not make another op champ 'well balanced'.
Most ranged tops have either a weak early game (Kayle mainly) or a weak lategame (most of the rest). The exceptions I can think of are Vlad(whose early game isn't amazing but isn't WEAK by any means), Vayne (who we all know is just op right now), and maybe Gnar although I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement call.
SuperTopLFBottom1 votesYea, but new aatrox still has mechanics and fight conditions like landing w and hitting q sweet spots. I was under the impression that the main problem with old aatrox was that his w turned him into a stat checked drain tank, which isn't a healthy spot to be.
A but being a "statcheck" is okay as long as you are a ranged champion? Or why is it that all kai'sa, vayne. tristana. twitch, jinx need to do is rightclick until you die?
usul12021 votesI disagree with that statement. Pick vayne, just right click an enemy, and who will die first? Or mess up q and tumble into them? It's called vaynespotting for a reason. Trist is a champion who relies on her abilities to be enabled by autos, which then enable her abilities through resets. Just hitting q and autoing won't win you fights unless very ahead. Kaisa has tons of requirements for good ability usage, can't get w bodyblocking, q means you have to get away from minions, e stops you from autoing for the duration so you have to meter your damage, there's caps. And thus, I don't have a problem with it.
Now, you put kog-lulu into the meta and throw out that argument and I'll absolutely agree that there's a stat heck problem. That's some serious right click + w on cd in fights to win. Not a fan there.
XJ9999999999999914 votesdoesn't conqueror turn every champion that uses it into what old aatrox used to be?
R107 Games1 votesdoesn't conqueror turn every champion that uses it into what old aatrox used to be?
Old Aatrox had true damage? Conqueror has healing?
Anu3isII7 votesUmm... Conqueror has Healing... that is the point.
LTK KoRo1 votesno, it does not. You guys need to stop blaming conqueror for trying to 1 vs 1 bruisers as an adc
KingBlackthorn16 votesThe new Aatrox is way better than old Aatrox. Old Aatrox was basically a failure character except for a very few amount of players.
KidnapperMorde3 votesHe failed because he was ignored for 5 years by riot lol
Ungrateful Thug4 votesI wish I could play old Aatrox again. At least I managed to snag Mastery 7 just before the rework, because I really don't have an inclination to play him again.
PaffWasTaken4 votesIt does feel extremely different with his current kit though and the inner mechanics are quite different. To be honest, this might be the version of reworked Aatrox who feels the most as a rework yet, and thats a win for me.
He is now once again a squishy damage dealer who's tankyness comes from raw sustain rather from innate resistances. The gameplay is quite different, but the concept does feel refreshingly similar.
Marlusia2 votesI want his old ultimate. Increased range + healing + just kill the revive its useless now.
StJohnSavage4 votesI feel the current is better than his old (both rework and classic). While getting a kill to get a revive is annoying, it forces the enemy team to focus him before he gets a kill as opposed to running away, which is the main frustrating thing about rework Aatrox's ult. Aatrox's old ult was nice for dueling but it blew chunks in teamfights since the dmg was negligible.
MagmaEnder2 votesTHIS IS AATROX REVERT BUT HE ALSO LOOKS MUCH BETTER!
AatroxKin2 votesAs someone who cherished playing the old aatrox where you buy attack speed and drain tank, I disagree with bringing old aatrox back. I believe it's best to have aatrox the way he is right now
Power Cosmic1 votesI am an old Aatrox fan too, but Swain was a drain tank. Aatrox was risky and rewarding no matter how you built him. Attack speed = life steal carry, not drain tank. Malzahar doesn't have life steal but he is what drain tank gameplay is like, safe and strong.
AatroxKin1 votesI think it's better not to revert Aatrox. I can guarantee you that old Aatrox is not fair to play against. If this champion ever fell into the wrong hands, ranked games would be doomed.
iDarkWind1 votesA bit. Isn't as braindead he used to be tough.
Morbys2 votesConsidering most OP champs at the moment are braindead picks, really isn't saying much.
chipndip11 votesWell his old kit was basically "Drain Yi" so I don't necessarily care for it.
Power Cosmic1 votesHe could only all-in and needed dual engages to follow-up on in soloq and pro instead of be the carry and engage himself. Having a barrier to entry made him a macro champ which is consistent with how good MoBAs function, but made it frustrating for all the dumb players in all ranks LoL tries to cater to. Champs should not do it all themselves. Also, auto attacking someone to death is not a drain.
Yi has his Q & R gap close and the Q also has defensive value. Aatrox had none of that, his only defense was game knowledge and offense. We can only hope Riot only listens to intelligent fans to make a good game everyone enjoys. Auto attacking carries are not drain tanks. Is Kog with a botrk a drain tank, or Draven with Bloodthirster, or even Illoai who has life leech in her kit? None of them are drain tanks bc none are exceptionally safe. Malzahar and old Swain are drain tank gameplay, safe and strong all-game bullies who were great at keeping assassins in check.
The Ecdysiast1 votesOh, and if you want old Aatrox back, you should see how you like Xin Zhao.
The thing is, a balanced version of old Aatrox's kit would've seen him put into the jungle. Because that's where AA champs generally belong. Jax being a specific counterpick to a few powerful top laners is an outlier.
And a balanced version of old Aatrox's kit is exactly what Xin Zhao's kit is. The similarities aren't even just surface-level. They're so similar that if we strip them of their names, Xin Zhao totally looks like an update to Aatrox's old kit.
Here's a thread where I went really in-depth for it: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/PsNsWrkE-heres-a-radical-suggestion-why-not-swap-the-entire-kits-of-xin-zhao-and-aatrox
And I do still think it'd be cool to completely swap the abilities of the two champions. It'd fit their weapon choices a lot better, to say the least.
Abandon2 votesOh for god's sake, please stop posting that. Why do you act like you know what Aatrox players want? You don't. You don't play Aatrox and you don't play Xin. Put simply, the overwhelming majority of Aatrox players that I know of don't play Xin, don't want to play Xin and didn't want Aatrox to be Xin. They were similar, I give you that, but not nearly enough to be able to replace one another.
I never got back to your 2nd point about auto attackers but here's the thing, you're wrong about that too. "To say that if Xin were good he'd be a top laner is a bold-faced lie, because all the good auto-attack based fighters are junglers", is what you said. Well, what about Fiora? Is she a jungler? Or Irelia? She auto attacks a lot and has an auto attack reset with innate sustain, surely she'd make a good jungler right? Or Jax? He's picked jungle sometimes but what's this... he's primarily picked as a top laner, no way? I don't know, it's like... some kits were better suited for certain roles and different people gravitate towards different champions for different reasons. Who'd have thunk amirite?
The thing is... your entire argument lacks perspective and voice. You, an outsider, wants to speak on behalf of an entire community you don't know of very well... because you think you know? I don't know dude, sounds pretty silly to me.
The Ecdysiast1 votesMy point is that you are not getting old Aatrox back. Because his design was inherently flawed. The parts that made him unique from Xin Zhao were what made him broken.
And you're just... wrong. Fiora, Irelia, they are NOT auto-BASED champions. They specifically have abilities that proc on-hit effects so that they don't often have to auto-attack. You're just as wrong as you would be to claim Ezreal is an AA-based champ.
And like I said, Jax's E and low-cooldown leap make him a specific counter pick to a lot of top laners who do need to weave autos into their combos.
For god's sake, please stop posting responses with no actual thought put into them. You never refute the similarities between the champions because you can't. They are there. And without being able to refute that point, the rest of your response is just hot air. Nevermind the fact much of it is wrong.
Power Cosmic2 votesYour reply is hot air. Only people who insult other people while being ignorant themselves, like you, do not appreciate the uniqueness of old Aatrox.
You say he is flawed but do not mention one good reason why. All you mention are other champs. That being said, one thing consistently true is everything has a flaw. But what is of value is different champs being unique and bringing different things to the game. A lot of champs doing everything themselves, unlike old Aatrox, is destroying this game's play rate and bottom line. What is bad and most flawed is new Aatrox being the lane bully AND lead engage AND carry all in one champ. It is bad bc you have other 4 teammates not 4 other prospective win or loss conditions, which makes games feel like a coin flip. What is right is different champs and teammates doing different things, and old Aatrox represents that very well. So if you are going to be rude by pretending you're smart, the only thing you are accomplishing is being a negative influence on the community and game.
The Ecdysiast1 votesI'm not going to type it all out, but here you go. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/PsNsWrkE-heres-a-radical-suggestion-why-not-swap-the-entire-kits-of-xin-zhao-and-aatrox
In that thread, I explained in-depth why Xin Zhao is exactly what a reworked Aatrox would've looked like.
Even using your poor definition of what's right and what's bad, old Aatrox was not good. Because old Aatrox could do nothing on his own unless put up against bad enemies. He was sub-par in every aspect, because when he was a viable pick it meant he was broken (like we saw when he suddenly started getting picked a ton thanks to Conqueror). And that stems from the inherent flaw of his W. Where Xin's could be balanced because it healed and dealt extra damage together, Aatrox's needed to more powerful in both aspects or he couldn't be picked. But leaning too far into the heal wasn't fair and leaning too far into the damage gave us what we saw when its cost was removed.
I didn't insult you. Your lack of an argument is an insult in itself.
And old Aatrox was not unique. You only have to look at Xin Zhao to understand that.
Power Cosmic1 votesIt is a team game.
The Ecdysiast1 votes[{quoted}](name=Power Cosmic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EooXKlqA,comment-id=000b00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T02:31:24.019+0000)
It is a team game.
So the lane phase doesn't exist? Get real.
Power Cosmic1 votesSolid reply. Yeah Xin and Aatrox are basically opposites in game fit. As Xin is best as a strong early champ, and Aatrox's peak output was as a late game carry.
Frontline Fury1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EooXKlqA,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-05-04T10:15:14.160+0000)
Oh, and if you want old Aatrox back, you should see how you like Xin Zhao.
The thing is, a balanced version of old Aatrox's kit would've seen him put into the jungle. Because that's where AA champs generally belong. Jax being a specific counterpick to a few powerful top laners is an outlier.
And a balanced version of old Aatrox's kit is exactly what Xin Zhao's kit is. The similarities aren't even just surface-level. They're so similar that if we strip them of their names, Xin Zhao totally looks like an update to Aatrox's old kit.
Here's a thread where I went really in-depth for it: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/PsNsWrkE-heres-a-radical-suggestion-why-not-swap-the-entire-kits-of-xin-zhao-and-aatrox
And I do still think it'd be cool to completely swap the abilities of the two champions. It'd fit their weapon choices a lot better, to say the least.
I picked up Xin Zhao after Aatrox was reworked, because i used to be an Aatrox OTP (#3 on EUNE at the time, #20 or something on EUW) and Xin was the only champion that played somewhat similar.
I've at some point mained MOST of the champions that recieved reworks throughout League's history. I always seemed to click the most with the oddballs and underdogs - making them work well despite their inherent flaws was a challenge to be overcome, and one i enjoyed a lot. Nobody can say you're abusing a broken champion then.
I was able to play new Xin for a couple months, until he was hit with the 6th or 7th nerf in a row. They gutted his base HP because he was too strong in the jungle, which left him completely unviable as a top laner.
At the moment, Udyr is the closest you can get to old Xin and Aatrox in terms of kit, while the closest you can get playstyle-wise is Master Yi. I've held a strong stigma against playing Master Yi ever since his mage days, and as such i was left without a champion to play until i figured out new Urgot.
The Ecdysiast1 votesFinally, an old Aatrox main who doesn't just spam, "they're not the same."
You might find some luck with him again, now that Conqueror and Hail are good options.
And yeah, if you really want an auto-attacker Udyr and Jax are where you're gonna have to look. Like I've said, AA is usually best in the jungle. But the reason for that is many AA-focused champs lack any kind of poke. It'd be hard to beat even a Riven when you're designed withe one dash on a fairly long cooldown or no dash at all, trying to fight champs with either range or more dashes.
I really have nothing against old Aatrox. But I'm not going to be blind and say his kit was fine. It was a balancing nightmare, and could only ever be sub-par, with dedicated mains like yourself who simply don't like playing op champs being the ones to pull his winrate to an okay state, or completely overpowered like we saw with him and conqueror right before the rework hit.
TotalJerk1 votesElaborate on what the fuck you're talking about, please. You can't just make vague statements and let others formulate an actual point for you.
MorgManBasher1 votesI like old and new aatrox, both are a lot of fun to play though I prefer the currently one personally especially after this rework with q and ult
SiG DxD1 votespre rework ? where is the attack speed tho
Power Cosmic1 votesHis laning is still strong, and his carry potential is greater bc of the new passive.
Bârd1 votesOn top of that his passive is now an effect that does bonus damage and heals him that comes back faster when he attacks faster.
lul.