I have been around since before even the first season and I don't 5 Bruiser/Tanks meta returning either
However Riot, even you must see that the Tank role is slowly dying with every patch you release
You are providing more CC on non Tanks You are providing more Damage on everyone You are constantly reducing the survivability of tanks. You are constantly making Tank stats more expensive while making damage stats cheaper
DrNova31 votesBecause Tanks dont make flashy Pro Tourney plays.
keenscythe21 votesSlowly dying? Aren't they dead? I mean, no one is tough enough to last in any meaningful way lategame, and tanks tend to suck at dueling and splitpushing.
Big Bang Bob17 votesBefore the jungle monsters themselves killed him off, Rammus 
was an exellent tank.
He had awesome ganks and late game his ult would melt softies while his w made sure that armor/magic pen was useless unless outright stacked (and I'm not even mentioning his nerfed but still devastatingly annoying taunt). He could easily stack armor and a bit of hp since most teams are mostly AD.
While he's probably better in team fights, his ult could damage towers and anyone under it with him, and despite building full tank, could easily duel any AD champ who doesn't bring massive amount of sustain (Just a 
won't work due to 
).
I used to get 
as a joke because after stacking armor, I would have 300 ad.
It's just too bad pre-season 5 came...
PentaJump4 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Bang Bob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enuct2fK,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-01-01T12:16:50.708+0000)
Before the jungle monsters themselves killed him off, Rammus
He had awesome ganks and late game his ult would melt softies while his w made sure that armor/magic pen was useless unless outright stacked (and I'm not even mentioning his nerfed but still devastatingly annoying taunt). He could easily stack armor and a bit of hp since most teams are mostly AD.
While he's probably better in team fights, his ult could damage towers and anyone under it with him, and despite building full tank, could easily duel any AD champ who doesn't bring massive amount of sustain (Just a
I used to get
It's just too bad pre-season 5 came...
I agree. Rammus was actually really strong, but these pre-season changes killed him.
Saevum14 votesLegends says Runic Bulwark...
IceKingChernobog13 votesyou mean that great item that got removed because it gave free stats?
Saevum3 votesThe same one.
KirstyAlter1 votesMan I fucking loved Runic Bulwark...
Giovarco9 votesI'm convinced that an anti-crit tank item should exists at least.
ExecutorDill11 votesI'm convinced that an anti-crit tank item should exists at least.
I believe so as well, but everyone would build that item fighter and mages alike because crit is soooo frustrating to deal with.
Anthroz1 votesAnd the whole point of IE would be rendered useless...
ImHerVoice16 votesGOOD FUCK IE FUCK ADC ITEMS THEY RUINED THIS GAME
Anyone who supports this abominiation of a meta can go fuck themselves.
stealthfox943 votesSomeone's salty.
ImHerVoice9 votesnah im just sick of riots version of an adc meta its disgusting. RIp league.
Slushi Simcambi1 votesYEP
I'm sick of Vayne/ Ezreal/ whoevertheflashyadcis getting all the love. Down with the Marksman Mentality!
WooBeeWoo3 votesAGREED Fucking adcs acting like they right click and its outplaying someone with real mechanics somehow. FUCK the ADC meta makes this game stupid
Xonra8 votesI believe so as well, but everyone would build that item fighter and mages alike because crit is soooo frustrating to deal with.
This is a large part of the problem Riot is seeming to miss when they create or balance items.
They create a "tank" item which they believe means "hp + resists" and then nerf them when anyone but tanks use them.
The items are never specific to tank type roles with a few exceptions so sure other people will use them if they are really good, but there are no actual tank items (at least not really anymore) that directly combat the offense items for damage dealers.
You have items that do % damage, penetrate and ignore armor and mr, cleanse cc, etc.
Tanks have the choice of straight armor with hp, straight mr with hp, straight hp, or a bit of one with a bit of an added effect that has been nerfed to completely gold inefficiency the past year outside of a few obvious choices. Riot seems to have forgotten that counter play can come from items as well and they don't counter play items against each other at all leaving damage items to counter play against tanks but tanks have no counter against crit or % health, or penetrating/ignoring armor, aside from building more armor or mr, etc.
Tanks are falling out of favor because Riot is only balancing on the side of damage and keeps nerfing the tools and items NEEDED by tanks to not get melted. A squishy cries foul because a tank dared to cc them and survive, but a tank will die just as fast as a squishy mid to late game to % damage and crits and continues to get nerfed because they have a taunt, or a fear, or can slow, etc.
There is a reason champs like Lee Sin dominated the jungle all season 4 while the likes of Zac who is a tank was almost completely forgotten from how popular he was (he is the 4th least played champ in LoL right now overall). Remember when you couldn't watch a pro game without seeing a Zac, and a year later 4th least played out of 123 champions barely above Galio and Urgot.
captainkaiger1 votesThe biggest offender of %damage is Vayne, who does %TRUE damage. It's ridiculous enough having percent damage on an adc already building a botrk, but then getting to ignore all that armor you bought JUST for this, it's annoying to say the least.
Vesarixx1 votesthere is a mastery for this in the defensive tree, also Ninja Tabi kind of already work for this, so what might be better is another option for tanks that provides tenacity.
junglerboy162 votestenacity is becoming near useless because of the number of champions who now have hard displacement in place of stuns roots or other CC that tenacity affects.
KirstyAlter1 votesIf only there was an item like that... Hmmmm....
Giovarco1 votesNo one doubts that is an useful item, but the passive is useless in general (because a tank need to not die, not to deal damage) and can be by-passed by 
.
Rebonack9 votesIt's a combination of things, really. The new Jungle hates tanks and barring some of the more absurd ones (sup, Tree) none of them can really lane effectively in Summoner's Rift. Riot removed the great Quill Coat and Ancient Golem spirit and gave Tanks nothing in return with the new jungle items.
Offensive itemization continues to be improved (AD and IAS have both gotten cheaper, AD and AP items are for the most part cost effective before their passives) while defensive itemization gets nerfed (mitigation and HP has gotten more expensive, %Pen changes back in season 3 made Whisper/Void must buys on everything, purely defensive items are nearly all cost inefficient).
Riot has admitted that Void and Whisper are both broken. They admitted this back in winter of 2013 before Samurai Bob was released. And what has been done about it? Absolutely nothing. It has gotten to the point that many team compositions consist of four squishies and one sorta-tanky Fighter, allowing Assassins to have a field day since there isn't anyone durable enough and disruptive enough to keep them in check.
A good start would be to add some kind of HP multiplicative item into the game, whether that be a literal bonus HP Deathcap or something that gives a shield based on your bonus HP on a fairly low cooldown, the game needs a soft-counter to penetration stacking. To get optimum effective hit points you usually need 1500 HP for every 100 resist, which is pretty doable. To get optimum EHP against someone with Whisper/Void you need 2400 HP for every 100 resist, which is nearly impossible to do right now. Rammus and Leona can pull it off, but they have to clog their inventory with Giant's Belts to do it.
Arveanor9 votesOh really? Because I just won a game as rammus against a full ad comp, so tanks are doing just great, tyvm. /sarcasm.
OK but I did win, but it was only b/c we had a yasuo carry us and invalidate any tankiness their trundle brought.
And did I mention it was rammus vs all ad? blind pick ftw.
Rebonack7 votesI think it's worth mentioning here that there's a difference between a Soak item and a Tank item.
Soak items are purely selfish. They make the holder more durable but they don't make them more of a threat beyond the innate qualities of their kit. Thornmail, Banshee, and Warmog's are classic examples of Soak items.
Tank items, on the other hand, are items that provide defense AND increase the threat of the holder. Frozen Heart does this with CDR (MOAR CC!) and its IAS nerf aura. But Riot nerfed the Tank side of the item (weaker aura) and improved the Soak side (more armor). For shame, Riot. Sunfire is another Tank item. As is Abyssal Scepter.
If Riot really wanted to show some Tank love, they could swap out the Blasting Wand in Abyssal with a Giant's Belt to make it the MR counterpart to Sunfire cape. But that'll never happen because HNNNNNGH MAGES.
What we need right now is a STRONG Tank HP item to serve as a soft counter to %Penetration because there's no way to really itemize for optimum EHP at the moment. Random idea just to throw one out there...
Leviathan
+
++combine cost
20% CDR, buncha HP, and
UNIQUE passive SPELLBLADE: On ability cast, your next basic attack grants a shield to yourself and the lowest HP nearby allied champion for 1.5 seconds equal to (percentage) of your Bonus HP. This ability has a 1.5 second cooldown.
UNIQUE active: For the next 4 seconds you take damage in place of the targeted allied champion (90 second cooldown).
So what do we have right here? What we have right here is a Trinity Force or Infinity Edge or Deathcap for Tanks. A Fighter isn't going to care about that active. A Fighter isn't going to be building enough Bonus HP to take full advantage of the passive. A Fighter is probably going to prefer grabbing Trinity Force (or even Frozen Fist) in place of this thing since the Spellblade passives don't stack. The shields that it grants helps to mitigate %HP damage a little without being too overwhelming. This is, without question, a late game fantasy fulfilling item for Tanks. Between the passive and active you are saving your softer team mates while being an awesome CC-dispensing juggernaut.
Wouldn't that be great?
exiledFromBadmen1 votesDude, all Spellblade things must me built out of Sheen.
But this would be great. An HP Iceborn Gaunlet.
Kamu5 votesLegends say will one day make tanks "OK.," as he puts it, again.
Xela Syab4 votesIdk tanks are still viable in the game, some just need buffs. Malph needs garen treatment on his passive so minions dont delay it and maybe a health scaling on something in his kit, Taric needs a health as cdr item as well as shen and Volibear, Singed and Amu is awesome always will be, Cho needs either more ms, a half second shaved off his q delay, or some way to gapclose, Rammus still has a >50% winrate so he doesnt need anything, Galio is in serious need of a rework, he either needs hard cc on his q (silence, snare, stun) damage reduction on his ult cause it can kill him, or a reverse mechanic on his w so he can heal allies instead of himself. Naut needs an overhaul, he's been weak since release, he can't lane or gank well and he's less tanky than sup alistar. Bruam needs some damn offense, ap scaling on q, maybe aoe damage on w, or lower cd on ult?
tldr: We need an hp/as/cdr item for health tanks, naut needs buffs, galio a rework, braum some offense, cho needs to move or gapclose. That would fix all the tanks in the game.
Xonra2 votes[{quoted}](name=Xela Syab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enuct2fK,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2015-01-01T20:38:21.808+0000)
Idk tanks are still viable in the game, some just need buffs. Malph needs garen treatment on his passive so minions dont delay it and maybe a health scaling on something in his kit, Taric needs a health as cdr item as well as shen and Volibear, Singed and Amu is awesome always will be, Cho needs either more ms, a half second shaved off his q delay, or some way to gapclose, Rammus still has a >50% winrate so he doesnt need anything, Galio is in serious need of a rework, he either needs hard cc on his q (silence, snare, stun) damage reduction on his ult cause it can kill him, or a reverse mechanic on his w so he can heal allies instead of himself. Naut needs an overhaul, he's been weak since release, he can't lane or gank well and he's less tanky than sup alistar. Bruam needs some damn offense, ap scaling on q, maybe aoe damage on w, or lower cd on ult?
tldr: We need an hp/as/cdr item for health tanks, naut needs buffs, galio a rework, braum some offense, cho needs to move or gapclose. That would fix all the tanks in the game.
Really if Galio had a bigger mana pool or more mana cost efficient abilities he would actually be really really good, not as a tank but as a fun bruiser mage type. He would be like the Bruiser of ap because he does great damage and can soak some damage but his mana costs hinder him quite a bit.
Xela Syab1 votesI dont think that would fix his issues though, because then he'd just be another utility mage like Ori and Lux and not a support tank. So far his role is better taken by Soraka than any other champ ( I feel like she's a true tank now with her hard cc and ability to save teamates). Plus if he's a counter mage he really should have something that stops spells. Hey he could have a windwall on his E that would be kinda cool. Plus I don't feel that his W actually can save anyone even though it is a major stat boost it just gives more value to LW and VS
Sammystorm4 votesI would love to see more armor + health and mr + health items in the game.
GameyRouge383 votesI agree I rarely see any tanks anymore. I play Singed a lot and when I do I feel like I'm the only Singed player in NA (ik im not).
Aurelius Maximus3 votesHi I'm a tank main and im doing just fine
Sion Naut udyr
all particularly hard to kill
Xonra3 votes[{quoted}](name=Owl Or Nothing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enuct2fK,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2015-01-01T19:41:30.166+0000)
Hi I'm a tank main and im doing just fine
Sion Naut udyr
all particularly hard to kill
Sion is already being regarded as "that was a cool rework, but..." since the shiny is wearing off, Nautilus is really underwhelming right now regardless of how much I personally DO like him a lot (even compared to other tanks), and Udyr is good in some situations, yes.
So I'll give you 1 out of 3 there.
Leti the Yeti2 votesfed tanks are still scary as hell tho once had a tanky as hell cho gath, garen, and nasus going whereever the fk they please and no one could kill em lmao
darkdill9 votesYour team must not have had a Vayne or Kog'Maw.
Leti the Yeti6 voteswe had a vayne with last whisper, them tanks werent going anywhere
Linna Excel2 votesTanks also need a healer to work to full effect and most people don't play healers.
1nconceivable2 votesWhat they were trying to do was make it so the tanks can soak the first round of abilities for their team. Riot didn't want it where the tanks can soak and keep soaking and stay there to run everyone else over. atm you are no longer able to stay in the fight indefinitely and have to learn when to disengage before dying. If your team works together you will be able to soak enough cds for your team to win the fight. What really helps a tank is having a support who can use abilities to make him last longer.
tldr? you need to focus on timing and positioning now when you decide to engage. Otherwise the now (very short window to be useful) will be wasted.
WooBeeWoo2 votesThis is very very true. I actually love playing tanks (full tanks) and I never do cause I think they are basically trash almost always.
Gorzke1 votesThey just need an Hyper-Tank item, something like:
Ancient Bulwark (3600g)
Build Path: 
+ 
+ 
+ 250g
400 Health
50 Armor
25 Magic Resist
UNIQUE Passive - Cold Steel: When hit by basic attacks, reduces the attackers Attack Speed by 20% for 1 second
UNIQUE Passive - Legion: Grants nearby allies +25 Magic Resist and +100% Base Health Regen
UNIQUE Passive: Receives 50% less damage from Critical Strikes.
With these two UNIQUE Passive's, the user can't stack this item with 
, 
or 
. With that huge ammount of cost, Bruisers shouldn't afford to buy it unless they sacrifice a huge amount of damage, but tanks can buy its components as they are allmost necesary in any Tank build ( plus ).
ExecutorDill1 votesThey just need an Hyper-Tank item, something like:
Ancient Bulwark (3600g) Build Path:
With these two UNIQUE Passive's, the user can't stack this item with
How about this 
+ 
+ 400 gold
225 qhealth 15 Attack Damage 10% Cooldown Reduction 15% Max Health 60 Armor
Unique Passive- Mighty Brawn- (Permanately gain 1 attack damage for every 100 bonus HP.)
Unique Passive - Reduce total damage from auto attacks by 5%. (Stacks with Ninja Tabi)
And 
+ 
+ 
+ + 450
500 HP 55 Magic Resist 30 Ability Power 125% Base Health Regen Unique Passive- Mystic Shroud- (1 Ability Power Every 5 bonus Magic Resist)
Gorzke3 votesTank doesn't need items to deal damage, they need items to survive the fights (and apply their CC)
Xonra2 votesTank doesn't need items to deal damage, they need items to survive the fights (and apply their CC)
Which is the issue. Tanks aren't bruisers, they are...tanks, don't don't have the proper itemization compared to the tons of different damage items.
I truly believe Riot doesn't like tanks because Riot doesn't like extended fights, they like quick flashy fights, which is why they were happy to delete dodge but will never delete crit, and keep adding in more and more % health abilities while constantly nerfing the CC that tanks need to be able to apply when they get the chance between being kited on top of being shredded with crit and %health damage.
A Random Newbie1 votesWhich is the issue. Tanks aren't bruisers, they are...tanks, don't don't have the proper itemization compared to the tons of different damage items.
I truly believe Riot doesn't like tanks because Riot doesn't like extended fights, they like quick flashy fights, which is why they were happy to delete dodge but will never delete crit, and keep adding in more and more % health abilities while constantly nerfing the CC that tanks need to be able to apply when they get the chance between being kited on top of being shredded with crit and %health damage.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
Ever since S3, their design "philosophy" has been "what will look the most exciting to the spectators?" and "how can we exacerbate the ping handicap we force east coast players to labor under?". Their answer to both is usually "MOAR kills, shorter fights, less farming! Screw depth, strategy, and complexity; everyone pick adc/assassin/Riven, mash your buttons, and see who lives closer to the Riot servers. WWF FOR LYFE"
Done251 votesTank doesn't need items to deal damage, they need items to survive the fights (and apply their CC)
I would argue otherwise. You can't give a kit just pure CC because there would be no way to deal with it outside of tenacity. (Think: Fiddle Fear, Rammus Taunt, etc.)
Tanks NEED damage as a balancing lever in their kits. And yes, tanks ARE allowed to have damage. It's just all AoE AP (Sejuani, Amumu) so they can't 1v1 the ADC. (That's a Fighter's role.)
Xonra1 votesI would argue otherwise. You can't give a kit just pure CC because there would be no way to deal with it outside of tenacity. (Think: Fiddle Fear, Rammus Taunt, etc.)
Tanks NEED damage as a balancing lever in their kits. And yes, tanks ARE allowed to have damage. It's just all AoE AP (Sejuani, Amumu) so they can't 1v1 the ADC. (That's a Fighter's role.)
Tanks need damage as a balancing lever in their kits yes but I think they meant they don't need damage items, they are saying they need itemization for better survivability to apply the CC they already have, not that they need moire CC. If you aren't able to get to someone to apply damage because they can kite you all day or kill you with Crit and %damage before you get to them then what is the point of the CC.
I don't think anyone is arguing a kit needs pure CC, more so a need for itemization to apply it more consistently.
Done251 votesTanks need damage as a balancing lever in their kits yes but I think they meant they don't need damage items, they are saying they need itemization for better survivability to apply the CC they already have, not that they need moire CC. If you aren't able to get to someone to apply damage because they can kite you all day or kill you with Crit and %damage before you get to them then what is the point of the CC.
I don't think anyone is arguing a kit needs pure CC, more so a need for itemization to apply it more consistently.
I think Tank itemization is a bit on the weak side, but the largest problem is Last Whisper. Every Marksman and Assassin will get it in every single match. They have no reason NOT to. And since Last Whisper is balanced as an anti-tank item, Tanks suffer as a result.
badooga1 votesI do agree with you, but certain tanks are still viable, such as Singed, who is awesome at being chased and getting away and at proxy farming and stuff. Just because they can't take out turrets easily doesn't mean that they can't splitpush.
Done252 votesI do agree with you, but certain tanks are still viable, such as Singed, who is awesome at being chased and getting away and at proxy farming and stuff. Just because they can't take out turrets easily doesn't mean that they can't splitpush.
A lot of tanks are actually good at wave clear due to the AoE nature of their kits.
