Doublelift: This League meta 'isn't fun to play' ESPN.com 15 hours ago

Dope Solo·Jun 23, 2018·12 votes·4,519 views

Dev hubris. Prediction: This 'new meta' is going to make enforcement of ranked roles impossible.

77 Comments

rtbf221651412Jun 23, 201811 votes

He plays bot lane.

No bias going to come from him. Nope.

Dope SoloJun 23, 20184 votes

So does 1/5 of the player base at any given moment.

Almost CreativeJun 23, 201811 votes

{quoted}

He plays bot lane.

No bias going to come from him. Nope.

So because he plays bot he's not allowed to have concerns about these ridiculous changes?

OtterlyLostJun 23, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champagné Papì,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmGaPkjI,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-06-23T16:50:43.886+0000)

So because he plays bot he's not allowed to have concerns about these ridiculous changes?

No because bot lane and marksmen mains are subhuman according to the boards and aren't allowed to be unhappy with having their favorite champs made unfun.

rtbf221651412Jun 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No because bot lane and marksmen mains are subhuman according to the boards and aren't allowed to be unhappy with having their favorite champs made unfun.

Don't be mad that Mordekaiser actually can use his abilities properly now in bot lane.

"PASSIVE: Mordekaiser gains bonus experience when killing a minion near allies equal to 50% of the experience he lost due to them being there, which totals at 82.6 / 71.73 / 66.3 / 63.04 / 60.87% of the minion's experience bounty."

ACTIVE - FIRST CAST: Mordekaiser targets an allied champion or minion and** for the next 4 seconds they gain up to 75 bonus Movement speed icon movement speed while moving towards each other **(increasing the further apart they are), which lingers for 1.5 seconds. **When near enough to each other, each deal magic damage in an area of effect around themselves every second for the duration **(melee and caster minions have a smaller AoE). Harvester of Sorrow ends if Mordekaiser or his ally dies.

"ACTIVE - SECOND CAST: Mordekaiser constricts the area, dealing magic damage to all enemies near himself and his ally as well as healing himself and his ally for the same amount, from up to 2 enemies hit in their respective areas.** Healing is reduced to 25% when harvesting minions**."

"CURSE:** If Mordekaiser's team scores an enemy champion** Damage rating takedown on a Cursed enemy, he temporarily enslaves their soul as a controllable ghost. Enslaving the DragonSquare Dragon will kill Mordekaiser's current ghost and prevent him from summoning a new one while it survives."

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Mordekaiser

Dope SoloJun 23, 20184 votes

Hopefully, riot learns something from this debacle and can use that information to make mordekaiser viable in a meta that doesn't require invalidation of 2 entire classes.

rtbf221651412Jun 23, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmGaPkjI,comment-id=00000001000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-23T17:07:24.674+0000)

Hopefully, riot learns something from this debacle and can use that information to make mordekaiser viable in a meta that doesn't require invalidation of 2 entire classes.

They are buffing and have buffed marksman.

Cry me a river. Use the salt to build a bridge to get over it.

Dope SoloJun 23, 20183 votes

? ooooook. Do you speak in anything that isn't played out memes?

BigBellBruteJun 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmGaPkjI,comment-id=00000001000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-23T17:07:24.674+0000)

Hopefully, riot learns something from this debacle and can use that information to make mordekaiser viable in a meta that doesn't require invalidation of 2 entire classes.

Yeah. Those idiots need to go back to where there was only one valid class. Marksmen.

BigBellBruteJun 23, 20188 votes

{quoted}

No because bot lane and marksmen mains are subhuman according to the boards and aren't allowed to be unhappy with having their favorite champs made unfun.

Oh look How cute. The marksman player is lashing out because the meta is no longer the bot lane and his four slaves.

OtterlyLostJun 23, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Oh look How cute. The marksman player is lashing out because the meta is no longer the bot lane and his four slaves.

I'm not a "his" or a "him" or a "he."
How cute; another circlejerker who, if their class of champions got butchered, would be upset as well and wouldn't listen to everyone just tell them to "adapt" and would call for buffs to their champions too; in fact, they probably did considering they're probably a mage/bruiser main and they're one of the whiniest groups of people in league.
I'm lashing out, yes, because the boards are full of biased people who don't listen to facts or have any personal experience with the things that they claim are broken; they just assume that they fucked up and died to it so it must be over powered, not that they themselves are just shit at the game.
If anything, I'm upset not because the meta doesn't revolve around botlane(newsflash, it never did; the better botlane never won every game and in fact it was usually the better mid or jungler who had the most influence on most matches but we never see players calling for nerfs to the overarching power and sway that these two positions have over the game) but because my class of champions got gutted in the name of opening up "diversity" instead of having them reworked so that they instead could solo lane and not be tied to a support all game and maybe finally have agency over how their own games go. Pardon me for wanting them to actually make marksmen better and more interactive to play against and as instead of just simply trashing them and leaving them to rot like they did with so many specific champions with empty promises of,"We will buff them." News flash, taking 100 gold off an item's price and giving 5 AD to an item that is better suited to assassins is not a buff.

CaptainAntiHerozJun 24, 20183 votes

I like this argument about adc's.... Kidding of course, in actually I feel like everyone is ignoring the others who are affected by this (mainly support players like yours truly) Karma has horrible issues and terrible performance track as a support rn Rakan can barely function because they got last pick and o look it's a (insert literally any cc midlane mage) bot lane.... Why.... has WAY to easy a time forcing the enemy bot lane out item 3095 literally punishes any non-tank support You literally can't do anything when the level six storm razor Olaf ults and runs straight for your carry .... Honestly all the supports and adcs need quality of life changes

NemeBroJun 24, 20184 votes

{quoted}

can barely function because they got last pick and o look it's a (insert literally any cc midlane mage) bot lane.... Why....

Rakan is one of the best supports in the game lmao.

CaptainAntiHerozJun 24, 20182 votes

I'm very aware of rakan, I did take the time to get m7 on him But with the meta of bot lane right now good luck landing a knock up without ult Why? Xerath stun Thresh hook and flay Darius e Heimerdinger e eq

The point is the knock up needs a quality of life "it still knocks up" buff because so much counters it, like aatrox before his q was unstoppable

LordGeovanniJun 24, 20181 votes

How cute; another circlejerker who, if their class of champions got butchered, would be upset as well and wouldn't listen to everyone just tell them to "adapt" and would call for buffs to their champions too; in fact, they probably did considering they're probably a mage/bruiser main and they're one of the whiniest groups of people in league.

Bruisers had to adapt in season 4 twice in season 5 twice in season 6 once in season 7 another time. Tanks had to adapt in season 4 twice in season 5 once in season 6 once and in season 7 one season 8 one time so far. Mages adapt in season 4 once season 5 once and season 7 once. Assassins was just bad in season 4-season 6 got broken items then got those broken items gutted then got broken items again in season 7 Supports had to adapt everytime bruisers tanks and mages had to adapt depending on the kind of support they were and extra times for the shuffleing of support items which are weaker than already weak tank items. Adcs gets their item build nerfed 2-3 times and only one of those times are with items they were intended to use and every time they get base stats compensation before the nerfed even go through or the same time. which acts as a buff to every one of their other builds and even a buff to the nerfed build. Most times adcs (and mages) get nerfs they cry until riot reverts them without trying to change anything.

ModAcademy KaynJun 24, 20184 votes

Wow, look, an asshole whose condescending and forming a strawman argument out of a players concern that his favorite role is no longer 'fun'.

IcyPepperJun 24, 20181 votes

The problem here is that both sides have a point. Marksman players deserve to have a place in the game too, but not at the expense of the other four like we've had for so long.

Marksman shouldn't be mandatory (and clearly people are enjoying the freedom of not having "pick ADC or we lose" syndrome when autofilled or otherwise going bot), but they shouldn't be completely dumpstered.

The solution I'm seeing is making changes to marksman to allow some of them to solo lane, but I don't believe Riot is doing significant changes until the end of the season.

Troll for TrumpJun 24, 20181 votes

You can have opinion. Doesn't make them any less biased.

Not to mention ADCs aren't even dead, so they're throwing a fit over nothing. Look at the stats,

GigglesOJun 24, 20182 votes

This is my favorite comment that he made.

"sometimes you might have a great idea, but the execution or the fun of the game goes down so much."

I feel this way every day when we talk about assassins needing to one shot the enemy to be viable.

Its a nice idea, that they should be able to play into that power fantasy, but how am I supposed to fight them without also one shotting them? (That is how we got to the current meta)

CaptainAntiHerozJun 24, 20181 votes

As a support main I'm offended Lulu Rakan Leona item 3070

rtbf221651412Jun 23, 20184 votes

Here for your doublelift 'backup' (Haha):

https://clips.twitch.tv/HumbleExcitedNarwhalFreakinStinkin

ModWulf HelhammerJun 23, 20181 votes

https://twitter.com/TLDoublelift/status/1010560616518508544

And here's his clarification.

rtbf221651412Jun 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmGaPkjI,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-06-23T17:42:50.625+0000)

https://twitter.com/TLDoublelift/status/1010560616518508544

And here's his clarification.

Why do you have it in image format?

And OP clearly said "This 'new meta' is going to make enforcement of ranked roles impossible." So obviously he doesn't want diversity.

RekSai CoffeeCoJun 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

And OP clearly said "This 'new meta' is going to make enforcement of ranked roles impossible." So obviously he doesn't want diversity.

Well riot doesn't want diversity either or they wouldn't have screwed up jungle with 8.10/8.11 changes.

Dope SoloJun 23, 20181 votes

Looks like he got an email from Riots marketing department this morning, and had to "clarify".

rtbf221651412Jun 23, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmGaPkjI,comment-id=000300010001,timestamp=2018-06-23T18:00:50.905+0000)

Looks like he got an email from Riots marketing department this morning, and had to "clarify".

Don't be mad that your base topic had no substance.

Read his twitter. He always said it even before today.

Might want to learn how to admit you were wrong.

Dope SoloJun 23, 20182 votes

I'm just reporting the news kid. Take it up with ESPN.

RenownedWheat42Jun 23, 20183 votes

he also said the new meta is fun so like

D357R0Y3RJun 23, 20184 votes

yea i don't understand where did op get this quote, everytime i saw doublelift's stream he always said that the meta is fun

RenownedWheat42Jun 23, 20184 votes

The problem is that Doublelift is saying both things. Even Perkz called that out.

D357R0Y3RJun 23, 20185 votes

i guess he says that it's not fun when it suits him, and it's fun when it suits him

ModWulf HelhammerJun 23, 20182 votes

Linked the sources in an above reply if you wanted to see

D357R0Y3RJun 23, 20184 votes

stopped reading at when they said yasuo mordekaiser brand vlad are the only thing you can play

Uzi is slaughtering the LPL right now while playing nothing but IMMOBILE ADCS like kai sa ashe vayne (alright this is mobile) xayah

he carries his team in every game and sets up an insane amount of pressure. Dopa himself said that adcs are still the strongest And I don't know why doublelift would go on how the meta is unfun to play when he says few days before that the meta is fun

ModWulf HelhammerJun 23, 20181 votes

Read the tweets I linked. He clarifies.

rtbf221651412Jun 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmGaPkjI,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-23T17:36:08.602+0000)

Read the tweets I linked. He clarifies.

He didn't clarify anything after what he said on his own Twitch.

D357R0Y3RJun 23, 20185 votes

that's fine i read it i agree with him about faker playing taric

but if he thinks ad carry players are only playing irelia and vlad he should take a ss of Uzi and Deft

Alex h8721Jun 23, 20181 votes

The funnel strats in pro play are super shit to watch IMO, for example griffin friday morning got a 2-0 on skt playing funnel kaisa game 1 and funnel yi game 2.

The kaisa game they were getting heavily outplayed for the large part of the game but oh shocker 28 minutes in kai-sa is an unkillable fountain laser and wipes skt w/ all her supports. 2nd game ill give to griffin they took advantage of skt mistakes and won that one easily, but its stupid and boring to watch.

OtterlyLostJun 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

stopped reading at when they said yasuo mordekaiser brand vlad are the only thing you can play

Uzi is slaughtering the LPL right now while playing nothing but IMMOBILE ADCS like kai sa ashe vayne (alright this is mobile) xayah

he carries his team in every game and sets up an insane amount of pressure. Dopa himself said that adcs are still the strongest And I don't know why doublelift would go on how the meta is unfun to play when he says few days before that the meta is fun

??? The only immobile ADC you mentioned was Ashe and she's always good in pro and organized play due to her utility. Vayne has a 2 second dash and stealth and kai sa has a Ms buff, stealth, and also has a dash with a shield. Xayah is closer to being immobile than vayne and kai sa and she's only good because, like Ashe, her utility adds a lot to pro and organized play.

D357R0Y3RJun 23, 20182 votes

vayne is mobile bonus ms is not mobility as stated by riot kai'sa's ult is a single dash, do you really think this makes you mobile? it's good to engage goot to peel yourself but you can only use it once in a fight

Also Varus is immobile but i forgot him

Uzi is single handly proving that if you're doing bad at adcs it's not riot's or adc's fault it's people's fault for not being good

OtterlyLostJun 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

vayne is mobile bonus ms is not mobility as stated by riot kai'sa's ult is a single dash, do you really think this makes you mobile? it's good to engage goot to peel yourself but you can only use it once in a fight

Also Varus is immobile but i forgot him

Uzi is single handly proving that if you're doing bad at adcs it's not riot's or adc's fault it's people's fault for not being good

Except not really because he's playing mobile ADCs(Kai'sa still has a MS buff and stealth and you trying to counter that her dash is an ult is pretty contrary considering you randomly decided Xayah is pushing the "immobile" term when her only mobility spell is a MS buff and her own ult) and ADC's who are always good in pro/organized play due to some kind of utility. He's not playing crit/carry ADCs like Cait, Tristana, Jinx, Twitch, Sivir or Kog'maw.

And even if he were, what he's doing in his professional, organized games does not equate in any way, shape or form that Marksmen are in a good position in normal, everyday soloqueue play. Arguing that people are still playing them bot also does not equate that they are good in soloqueue either as no one seems willing to take the fact that there are people who actually enjoy playing marksmen, who like the champions as a class, and who aren't interested in playing mages/tanks/bruisers/assassins. If they enjoyed playing those kinds of champions they would be playing them in the three other lanes that all of those champions can work in. And since this is soloqueue, these players aren't going to pick for comps or for competitive integrity or for what is "meta" but instead for what they like in a champion. So no matter how good or bad marksmen are, they will still have the lion share of bot lane because that's what people who play botlane enjoy. :/ Making their champions garbage is just going to upset and alienate them and make them play the game less overall, which is what's happened recently. Botlane is getting to be autofilled more and more every day and, despite them not being allowed to be more vocal, there is a pretty substantial group of players who don't like the change and are asking for things to be fixed.

D357R0Y3RJun 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

And even if he were, what he's doing in his professional, organized games does not equate in any way, shape or form that Marksmen are in a good position in normal, everyday soloqueue play.

you quote fucking doubelift then tell me to not talk about professional play bonus MS is not mobility period and he plays ashe and varus

OH NO THE HORROR HE ISNT PLAYING TRISTANA AND CAITLYN IT MEANS ALL ADCS ARE BAD AND THE ADC CLASS IS DOING BAD

more than half of the roster is viable, adcs are fine and i don't know why doublelift would literally contradict himself few days later

OtterlyLostJun 24, 20184 votes

{quoted}

you quote fucking doubelift then tell me to not talk about professional play bonus MS is not mobility period and he plays ashe and varus

OH NO THE HORROR HE ISNT PLAYING TRISTANA AND CAITLYN IT MEANS ALL ADCS ARE BAD AND THE ADC CLASS IS DOING BAD

more than half of the roster is viable, adcs are fine and i don't know why doublelift would literally contradict himself few days later

Excuse? I never once quoted doublelift personally. I never quote any of the pro players because i have a brain and can make my own decisions about the game without someone telling me what to think. So my point still stands and is accurate. Pro players and what they play in their professional, organized games does not have any bearing on whether a champion or class is good in soloqueue. This is supported by the fact that Ryze was a monster in pro play but was scraping out only a 48% winrate in soloqueue.

And MS is mobility. It makes you go fast and move around, giving you the ability to dodge cc and kite or get in range. And this isn't even to touch on the stealth. Kai sa is more mobile than xayah. And again, ashe and varus are good in pro play no matter what. Both of them have consistently, since their release, been seen as a pick in a professional game regardless of meta because they are utility ADCs and bring a lot to the table.

And sure, half the roster is "viable" but this is a game. Are they enjoyable to play? Are they fun? Do they feel impactful or relevant or rewarding? Or are your only options the same four champions? This isn't a good balance and regardless of what people say, the difference between the top tier, cream of the crop marksmen and the bottom of the barrel ones has never been larger or more gaping.

ModWulf HelhammerJun 23, 20181 votes

This last night: http://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/23879125/yiliang-doublelift-peng-not-fan-new-league-legends-meta

And then these this morning to clarify: https://twitter.com/TLDoublelift/status/1010560616518508544

https://twitter.com/TLDoublelift/status/1010561163149508608

IcyPepperJun 24, 20181 votes

"And when previously, the way to have the most game impact from the bottom lane was to pick only marksmen -- generally marksmen who can spike after two or three items -- and play with relative safety. ...

only marksman

That's why a great number of us are enjoying bot lane.

We enjoy having options and variety.

Dope SoloJun 24, 20181 votes

I enjoy it too. Especially as a previously midlane mage main, with no where else to go now. Wheres the variety there? Talon Zed Zoe We didn't get variety, we got assassins and bruisers, and a handful of others.

IcyPepperJun 24, 20182 votes

Let's just hope marksman get the same opportunity soon. I wanna see shit like bird duo mid or Cait top + Vi jungle strats. Not fair to leave that class dumpstered for the sake of our fun. Marksman mains deserve to have fun too.

Dope SoloJun 24, 20181 votes

Agreed. But I don't see the new ranked roles system really working out. My guess is that people are going to get counterpicked harder than before, and as a result they're going to be moving around a lot.