Just because your jungler isnt ganking doesn't make them useless.

warpenguin555·Oct 11, 2016·51 votes·5,756 views

They can still be doing things like invading or warding. IMO those things are far from useless

79 Comments

HateDaddyOct 11, 201637 votes

Good, I'm glad you keep attempting to invade and either

A) randomly invade super deep and die because we can't possibly follow up

B) randomly invading and stealing camps while the enemy jungler is single handily winning everyone lane for the enemy

I hope you plan on carrying with all that good you get from two camps.

Look, yes, it's not like junglers like hearing this but part of jungling whether you like it or not is ganking. There's a fine balance to farming/ganking/vision control and if you're trying to only do 1-2 of these without the other, you're often being a lackluster jungler. Ganking is the exception here as it puts gold in other teammates pockets and leads to victories. It's not wrong for your team to expect ganks when you decide to play a role with its most important duty being to gank in solo queue. It's wrong for them to flame you, it's wrong for them to even blame you for a loss if you don't gank because it's not 100% your fault as some ganks CAN be avoided. But not pressuring the map at all as a jungler is the equivalent to basically losing lane. And as a laner, I resent this victim complex that junglers have when it comes to taking responsibility for contributing almost nothing meaningful to the team while the enemy jungler is straight up carrying. I don't expect you to carry or win my lane but I expect you to be relevant and warding here and there and randomly invading is not being relevant.

And lord knows, lord fucking knows if I lose lane on my own, I get lit the fuck up by my team and often times my jungler for it. So please, stop pretending doing your job in a role that you elected to play isn't your job. Map pressure aka ganking is part of a junglers job and it's painfully obvious when they don't do it.

DevlinCrowOct 11, 20164 votes

No decent jungler does A or B, or even flames their laners for losing lane. Those are shitty junglers!

However I should point out that it's not always possible to gank the moment you need it, if you get turret dived and I'm on the other side of the map, I'll gank somewhere else or steal enemy camps. Takes communicaton between the laners/junglers, I've had people go 0/3/0 and end up carrying when they communicated instead of arguing

Need Gold 4 TentOct 11, 20161 votes

Sometimes I don't know, it's either coincidence or the enemy is reading and predicting me. Like I literally tell them "Coming top after healing" (which makes sense considering I'm at 1/4 hp after 4 camps). Somehow that top lane manages to die while I'm walking there. Later, I get a successful gank using my ult in mid. I decide to use the next one for bot and tell them. Somehow again, as I'm walking there with 10s left on the CD, bot lane manages to die as well. Either the enemy is calculating my cooldowns or my jungle has been warded like a christmas tree, I don't know.

DevlinCrowOct 11, 20161 votes

Depends on your elo really :P In higher elo the jungler will see you're not near bot and gank, but in low elo it's likely coincidence.

SpoofghoulOct 11, 20169 votes

i don't agree that ganking has to happen all the time, just showing your face once or twice will suffice. as long as you then make sure to help with vision to prevent enemy ganks.

A good alternative strategy is to just take very drake asap, this will also snowball your laners due to the extra stats like regen bonus dmg on neutrals extra ad/ap or movement.

Ive had some of my junglers do just that, go for the neutrals hard and fast and when you then end up with 2 ocean drakes 2 fire drakes a wind drake and a mountain drake, then you sure have alot of extra stats and power then enemy doesn't have and can never get either, they can just stall untill later to make up for that stats deficiency because they can't get those drakes.

Though this does require your jungler to get the ward item and spam wards and take scuttlers to prevent ganks.

i like this strategy better then ganking because it creates an advantage the enemy never can catch up to, and it only requires functional laners who don't feed

DrCyanideOct 11, 20167 votes

{quoted}

A good alternative strategy is to just take very drake asap, this will also snowball your laners due to the extra stats like regen bonus dmg on neutrals extra ad/ap or movement.

Are we sure Jungler's know those exist? I've seen so many Jungler's straight up ignore Dragons, ignore lanes, not hand off Blue Buffs, and wonder why we're losing the game.

In my book, as a Jungler you either need to be prioritizing Neutural objectives or ganking to be doing your job (both is nice, but I'll settle for one or the other). If you're not doing either of those, then why are you even playing?

ApolloclipticOct 11, 20161 votes

Have to go so only read the first line and wanted to agree:

Have played games where the enemy KNOWS my jungler is ignoring my lane, so hardcore pushes me under tower while I desperately try to freeze. The Second I start to push, or even while under my tower the enemy jungler will come and gank, so there is nothing I can do. If our jungler just applies pressure, so that my opponent has to second guess themselves the same way i do, I at least have the opportunity to bluff or farm as they play a little safer.

Map pressure is not the same as an actual gank, just letting them know you're nearby #Kindred's passive mind games and Iverns long range brush maker

Unstoppable MonkOct 11, 20165 votes

Nothing pisses me off more than a gank jungler just farming jungle all day for no reason.

DeathBurstOct 11, 20167 votes

There's a fine balance to farming/ganking/vision control

Yes, sure. Which means that the jungler is not supposed to spend 100% of his time ganking... Because sometimes that's what laners seem to think...

And as a laner, I resent this victim complex that junglers have when it comes to taking responsibility for contributing almost nothing meaningful to the team

As a (secondary) Jungler, it's absolutely annoying when ONE laner says "X ganked me 3 times and I didn't see you once". Weeeell, meanwhile I ganked 3 times the 2 other lanes and stole one of his buffs, so play safe and take one for the team, you spoiled brat... Laners far too often only consider their own lane and don't look at the big picture, and that's not victim complex or refusing to take responsibility.

EDIT: also, we could talk about some match-ups like Shyvana vs Lee Sin. OF COURSE Lee will gank more than Shyv, what do you expect? Flaming your Shyvana won't help, and once again that's not her refusing to take responsibility , that's just the laners not understanding their team comp and their game plan.

EndlessSorcererOct 11, 20164 votes

Yeah, I've gotten that quite a bit. Hell, I had one of them last night.

During a game yesterday, I was playing Nunu Jungle. About 15 minutes into the game, our 0/3 Taliayah decided to stop helping with anything since I didn't gank for her during laning phase against Leblanc. She refused to group, constantly farmed side-lanes and would use her ultimate to split apart our team during fights or let enemies escape.

While she was complaining about the lack of ganks, I was:

Camping bottom lane to get our Brand and Jinx fed since they were the majority of our team's damage
Ganking top-lane occasionally when Kennen overextended
Controlling vision around the map by killing Scuttle Crabs, sweeping the river and lane entrances, deep-warding the enemy jungle
Counterjungling the enemy Jax whenever I had an opportunity
Securing Dragons and Rift Herald for my team

Basically, I did basically everything I should have been except for ganking mid-lane. Considering the results of the game (i.e. Jinx and Brand killing everyone, Leblanc falling off), I stand by that decision.

SwaggyMcGhee420Oct 11, 20161 votes

Some champs are better at invading than ganking.
Some lanes are impossible to gank.
The champ you're playing has a direct impact on the number of ganks you're likely to get.

Little SebastianOct 12, 20162 votes

Seriously boils my blood when im playing shyvana and people are flaming me for never ganking early. I think there should be a PSA on different types of junglers. Ill come if the enemy is pushing but if the wave is in the middle you really dont want a shyvana gank.

SwaggyMcGhee420Oct 12, 20161 votes

Yeah some people expect Yi to be able to countergank and snowball lanes early as well as Lee Sin...

ChaddyFantomeOct 11, 201633 votes

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/66108048.jpg

l Dárius lOct 11, 20168 votes

to bad if they aren't doing those things they are afk farming and that is useless

DukuesOct 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=noxus roolz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmAbxGF0,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-11T02:00:34.797+0000)

to bad if they aren't doing those things they are afk farming and that is useless

How is farming useless?

l Dárius lOct 12, 20162 votes

its only useless when you have better things to do

Baby GhoulOct 11, 20168 votes

I have serious questions about how many of you are actually that type of jungler. We aren't professionals, so I don't know what kind of perfect environment would allow for that kind of strategy either.

The vast majority of AFK farmers I've come across do not contribute anything. Only Lee Sins that AFK farmed have payed special attention to warding in my games. Even if you are, usually you end up dead in the enemy jungle, thus making it pointless. AFK farming in the jungle does little to help your team.

If you aren't putting pressure on the map, then you are not being helpful. Sometimes lanes can survive without it, most times they can't. I don't think anybody should call you out on it in a rude way or become passive aggressive, and certainly we all have bad games so nobody should be talking, but let's not pretend like that's helping anyone either.

I feel like we're forgetting that yeah, you shouldn't be crappy to your jungler, but it is also really crappy to deny a team map pressure. Do not encourage that strategy. I'll be the first to defend someone getting picked on or being unreasonably blamed for things, but you do need to put pressure on the map at some point.

If you aren't, lanes start to break down if the enemy jungler is doing their job. The reason for the loss becomes your fault, and I don't think you should be attacked for it, but I do think you should learn from it.

You don't even need to get a kill. Making an enemy blow summoner spells or lose XP is just as effective. You can even go get an objective afterwards. Another thing, everyone should be warding. You shouldn't get a gold star for doing something so basic and that's coming from a support main. Warding isn't something you do to be extra nice. This is a team game, and even if you may not like one of your teammates, you still tough it out and ward for them and help them whenever you can. Why? Because if they fail your chances of winning get slimmer and slimmer.

The DeckownerOct 11, 20163 votes

A lot if times, due to jungle match up, many weaker early game junglers have to go for a more passive farming and control style, because a failed gank or enemy counter gank can easily allow the enemy jungler to take over.

Baby GhoulOct 12, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmAbxGF0,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-10-11T14:08:55.374+0000)

A lot if times, due to jungle match up, many weaker early game junglers have to go for a more passive farming and control style, because a failed gank or enemy counter gank can easily allow the enemy jungler to take over.

That is your choice though. The meta certainly doesn't favor passive farmers, so that was your choice to put yourself at the disadvantage in a competitive setting where not all players are perfect. You aren't lacking for choice in the jungle role, so nobody is forcing you to play those types of champions that require extra work. It is the most diverse role, and you have so many champions to choose from.

For the majority of us ranked isn't perfect. On top of that we are playing with strangers. Why are you passively farming when you know 9 times out of 10 at least one lane will get crushed because of it? You will maybe be able to end the game with nice farm and a nice looking KDA, but it still counts as a loss and you still lose LP like the rest of the team. I assume that's why we get so many of these topics. Map pressure is what junglers are for and a nice looking KDA and decent farm doesn't mean anything if the rest of your team got crushed.

That's not a good choice, and while it is your choice to make, you do need to take some of the responsibility for the loss instead of shifting blame. Few games allow you to passively farm for the majority of the game. I see so many AFK farmers blame their lanes for a loss when in reality the lack of pressure is a big factor in why they lost. Even if their farming goes smoothly, usually most towers will be gone and the enemy will have dragons. The junglers that passively farm no longer have an high enough advantage to undo what has already been lost.

What the game turns into is the support frantically trying to maintain vision on Baron, knowing the enemy could take it at any moment while the AFK jungler split pushes all while the other teammates try to hold their own under their last remaining towers. It's unfair and it isn't fun. The worst part is that it is completely avoidable by just appearing a few times in lane. Don't take unnecessary risks, but ganking is a risk you need to take one in a while.

We all have bad games, and I know what it is like hitching your wagon to someone who is off their game, but I attribute junglers who don't gank to supports that don't buy Sightstone, build straight AP, and steal kills. It's selfish, and won't get you far against a competent team unless you're significantly more skilled than all 5 of them.

The DeckownerOct 12, 20161 votes

having a weaker early game match up =/=having a weak early game jungler, enemy might just be playing lee sin nidalee.

Baby GhoulOct 12, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmAbxGF0,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-12T04:18:08.004+0000)

having a weaker early game match up =/=having a weak early game jungler, enemy might just be playing lee sin nidalee.

A matchup doesn't mean you stick to just farming. The rest of us deal with getting counterpicked all the time. That isn't an excuse. Your teammates should help you when they can, but you don't get to just stay in the jungle the whole game while towers and objectives are lost then pass the blame onto your laners. Keep track of the enemy jungler and figure out where you're going to go. Counter jungle when you can, but also gank when you can. If you see the jungler camping bot, then go top.

Not being able to countergank =/= not ganking the lanes at all.

ValyrianBladeOct 11, 20166 votes

{quoted}

They can still be doing things like invading or warding. IMO those things are far from useless

Yes, but the "jungler isn't making a mistake" mindset doesn't help either.

I had a game this morning, where from 3min to 14min I kept the minion wave frozen literally right at my turret (top). The enemy Gragas did not back off of a single wave. He also harassed me while I kept it frozen. I ALSO had the tri-brush pinked (I was red side). I didn't get a gank until 14min, at which point I was low mana (I had backed and TP'd back to lane at one point too) AND my Kindred jungle didn't want to flank around but insisted on coming via the pink ward and through lane (so he made no use of the freeze, Gragas wasn't over extended if you're coming via lane...). Got his flash still, but really doesn't help much.

When a laner freezes a lane and pings a target on his lane opponent, I don't care which jungler you are you should be ganking within 3 minutes. There's no excuse not to. If I hold a freeze for over 10 minutes before I get a gank, I'm not going to be happy with my jungler.

(We did still win that game, and I individually did reasonably well. His mid-lane ganks worked I guess although I don't understand why he kept ganking a Riven that was back at her tower rather than the Gragas at mine. W/e, maybe he was duo with our Orianna).

Basically, in short (too late?) - a jungler not ganking isn't useless, but a jungler not ganking WHEN HE SHOULD is pretty bad.

DevlinCrowOct 11, 20164 votes

If you have the ability to keep farming against a harassing extending opponent you bet your shit I would gank that, give you the kill and let you snowball, easy win. Your jungler should really have taken advantage of that golden opportunity

ValyrianBladeOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you have the ability to keep farming against a harassing extending opponent you bet your shit I would gank that, give you the kill and let you snowball, easy win. Your jungler should really have taken advantage of that golden opportunity

Thank you! :P

Yes, it's really frustrating. I mean at least we won that game. I really hope he was just duo'd with our mid who he seemed to camp for. Choosing to tower dive rather than gank the extended enemy just doesn't make sense otherwise. orianna played really well with her lead though, so we won. Not all is lost. I agree though, if I can survive under tower hitting over 90% farm for that long against an over extended opponent - I'm showing that I know how to play the game. So give me something to work with, lol.

The Yetii RiderOct 11, 20163 votes

"I don't care which jungler you are, you should gank in three minutes"

Nocturne, Warwick, Amumu, Nunu, Rengar, Malphite, Sion, Master Yi, Shyvana, and Ivern are all better off farming to 6 than they are ganking a frozen lane.

More importantly, some junglers just don't want to gank. I know I don't. Ganking involves risk, it reveals you on the map. You could give up buffs, you could get your laner killed, you could lose a tower, you could lose dragon or Herald.

The possibility of giving my laner 300 gold and a wave of free farm is not worth the risk of potentially losing a huge amount of map control.

That's why I leave roaming to my mid laner, who usually builds more offensively earlier, has more offensive runes and masteries, and more mobility/kill pressure.

ValyrianBladeOct 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmAbxGF0,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-10-11T15:07:56.132+0000)

"I don't care which jungler you are, you should gank in three minutes"

Nocturne, Warwick, Amumu, Nunu, Rengar, Malphite, Sion, Master Yi, Shyvana, and Ivern are all better off farming to 6 than they are ganking a frozen lane.

More importantly, some junglers just don't want to gank. I know I don't. Ganking involves risk, it reveals you on the map. You could give up buffs, you could get your laner killed, you could lose a tower, you could lose dragon or Herald.

The possibility of giving my laner 300 gold and a wave of free farm is not worth the risk of potentially losing a huge amount of map control.

That's why I leave roaming to my mid laner, who usually builds more offensively earlier, has more offensive runes and masteries, and more mobility/kill pressure.

a) I said within 3 minutes of the lane freeze. You can't set it up in the first 3 min. Most "farm to 6" junglers can hit 6 by 6min, if not shortly thereafter. So the point remains - if I have a lane frozen ripe for a gank, that's where you come first at 6.

b) refusing to gank because of the risk of revealing yourself? Stop jungling, please. There's avoiding dumb ganks which is fine. Outright not ganking as a jungler is just asking to lose. If you have a 50% win rate it's because your elo has dropped significantly below where your mechanical skill and teamfight-decision-making lie. A jungler that never ganks is an awful jungler. If you can't recognize a good gank opportunity and take it - stop jungling.

The Yetii RiderOct 11, 20161 votes

I do have an over 50 win rate, and I never gank. Primarily the reason I never gank is because I have an extremely unreliable connection and occasionally have very sharp lag spikes and frame rate drops. That has to do with my internet provider. I have had enough situations where a random, unpredictable lag spike has cost the lane and the game that I refuse to do it anymore.

Doesn't matter. A jungler's main goal is map control, objective control, and being able to collect XP and gold without being pressured by an enemy laner, all of which I do very well.

Irish RoastOct 11, 20162 votes

This is some ignorant stuff here. I watch challenger streams, and they do like 2 or 3 ganks in the first 15 minutes if at all. If you get a gank consider yourself lucky. I'm not going to gank a lane unless it has a high percentage change of killing or blowing summoners. Counter-jungling enemy camps or clearing my own camps yields more gold. The biggest crime is trying to tell your jungler what they should do and try to stretch them thin across the map.

As far as top lane is concerned, many junglers don't even mess with top lane because the minute they show top they could instantly lose a dragon just for being on the wrong side of the map. Play your lane and don't feed. Also buy pink wards, and tell the jungler when your opponent has no flash, THAT is how you get them to come gank your lane.

A gragas can just E, flash, and use his ult to keep him safe, so that isn't really as gankable as you think.

ValyrianBladeOct 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irish Roast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmAbxGF0,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2016-10-11T17:27:02.550+0000)

This is some ignorant stuff here. I watch challenger streams, and they do like 2 or 3 ganks in the first 15 minutes if at all. If you get a gank consider yourself lucky. I'm not going to gank a lane unless it has a high percentage change of killing or blowing summoners. Counter-jungling enemy camps or clearing my own camps yields more gold. The biggest crime is trying to tell your jungler what they should do and try to stretch them thin across the map.

As far as top lane is concerned, many junglers don't even mess with top lane because the minute they show top they could instantly lose a dragon just for being on the wrong side of the map. Play your lane and don't feed. Also buy pink wards, and tell the jungler when your opponent has no flash, THAT is how you get them to come gank your lane.

A gragas can just E, flash, and use his ult to keep him safe, so that isn't really as gankable as you think.

"ignorant"

What part of "literally frozen at my turret for over 10 minutes" do you not understand?

I'm not exaggerating here at all. It was literally at 3min (the 3rd wave) when I got it frozen at my tower. I pushed the first two waves so he pushed back to try to freeze, then he went to push the third and I sat back. Frozen instantly. He kept trying to push in to tower and I kept taking minions towards the tribrush and refusing to let them hit tower. The one time he got them to tower i cleared and recalled, he tried to push to make me miss a wave and I tp'd on my last caster minion back to lane and re-froze.

3 minutes is well before he has his ultimate as well. The lane was ripe for a gank and I was asking for one (not verbally and not obsessively, I just pinged target on him 3 separate times). Dragon was taken well before I let up the freeze, so it's not like it was even there to be taken again.

Again, I'll reiterate from my first post - ganking isn't always necessary and you don't always get one, but people (like you) need to stop saying that the junglers aren't making mistakes. There are clearly times when they should be ganking. A lane that's frozen at tower for over 10min and not ganking that is inexcusable. It's a mistake, regardless of what champion it is. Even just burning his flash would be enough. It's enough to say that the 11 minute freeze ended because the enemy jungler tower dove me. If he had ganked at that point it would have been a double kill for us. Any time before that a single kill. The point isn't that you should always get the gank, but that Junglers do make large mistakes, often. No one wants to farm under tower for the entire laning phase either. There's no excuse for not ganking a lane that's constantly over extended unless he's already snowballing.

Maximum MordeOct 11, 20166 votes

Yes it does if the enemy jungler is ganking and snowballing every lane to high hell.

Your play must adapt to the situation and if the enemy jungler is playing high pressure, get off fucking wraiths and counter gank.

Ben SharpioOct 11, 20165 votes

Yes it does. You dont win by farming you win by ganking and snowballing lanes. If you just want to farm play nasus

Immortal spaxOct 11, 20165 votes

But if meanwhile the enemy jungler is perma-ganking, you are going to lose the game.

Burnt LightOct 11, 20165 votes

Invading means nothing if the enemy jungler has gotten their team more kills than you have cause you were busy trying to steal blue.

It's everyone's job to ward. It's nothing to praise yourself for to do a basic job.

If you are not ganking at all when there are several opportunities for you to do so that would assist the team greatly OR if you're not getting objectives like dragon or turret, then you are useless and act as a parasite to the team since all you're doing is draining resources for your own selfishness.

RequiemsfireOct 11, 20164 votes

If all lanes are losing hard enough it's not entirely unreasonable for the jungler to try and power farm tp stay relevant, keep the lanes pushed out, and generally maintain vision of the jungle because if your whole team is struggling trying to make plays might just push them further behind.

HateDaddyOct 11, 20168 votes

{quoted}

If all lanes are losing hard enough it's not entirely unreasonable for the jungler to try and power farm tp stay relevant, keep the lanes pushed out, and generally maintain vision of the jungle because if your whole team is struggling trying to make plays might just push them further behind.

Power farming won't work. 1 farmed jungler (which isn't even the equivalent to a farmed laner) won't outcarry 3-4 fed enemies. Farming stops becoming an option after awhile and you have to make aggressive moves somewhere on the map to get back into the game.

Supreme Senpai69Oct 11, 20164 votes

On the other hand sometimes every lane is just bad. Ganking might not be worth it because you lose out on gold and exp while the laner might not be able to do anything with the gank. I'll say that for every decent jungler I've seen that I've seen 9 awful ones, but sometimes you just gotta try to farm and carry

ShifuneOct 11, 20161 votes

The power-farm method works just fine when done properly. I just played 2 games of power-farm Shyvana. Nothing like hitting level 18 2-3 levels before anyone else and being the first person to finish your build in the game. You're practically unkillable and can literally singe-handily carry teamfights.

That being said, it has to be done properly. You can't just go full lockscreen and ignore the rest of your team. When I play power-farm style, I gank/counter-gank every now and then, but I don't actively hunt for ganks. If a gank/counter-gank opportunity is within my proximity, I'll go for it, but I'm not going to run all the way across the map just to try to gank a lane. My priorities when playing that style are: Dragon/Baron control, my farm, ganking. In that order.

But I see where you are coming from. It's kinda like bad Nasus players. They afk farm and just completely ignore the rest of the team. Then, when they finally decide to help out, it's like "Yea, you have a ton of farm, finished your build, and are a higher level than the rest of us, but the game is already over so what's the point?"

You have to adapt to the situations in the game.

Just Blame JennyOct 12, 20161 votes

Yep, pretty much this. Sometimes, powerfarming is the right call as long as you don't ignore the game. I recently had a game as Nidalee where I was forced to do just that. Literally every time I tried to gank a lane within the first 15 mins of the game, my laners had already elected to engage by themselves and die. No just die, but get slaughtered. Nothing to clean up. They were simply bad. There was absolutely nothing I could do.

So I spent the first portion of the game farming like the idea was going out of style. I let no farm go to waste. 25 minutes into the game, I was sitting on about 230 farm. Despite having no kills, I could 1v1 pretty much anyone on the enemy team.

Now, was this an ideal situation to be in? Most definitely not! The game would've been far easier if our team had control of the map early on. But that wasn't an option. Every lane threw. However, because I farmed I was able to skirmish with the enemy team, contest objectives, and help my team mates get back into the game.

This bit is important, though: farming is a means to an end, not an end in itself. If you're ignoring the game around you, you're doing it wrong. On the other hand, powerfarming so you can impact the game around you is the right call when there is no other option.

KnoyleOct 11, 20162 votes

It's a bad idea to gank lanes that are really behind because chances are it will just put you behind. Playing passive and scaling is how you turn games around.

SmalltomahawkerOct 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

If all lanes are losing hard enough it's not entirely unreasonable for the jungler to try and power farm tp stay relevant, keep the lanes pushed out, and generally maintain vision of the jungle because if your whole team is struggling trying to make plays might just push them further behind.

This. Although junglers need to try to gank and put pressure on the map it makes it very hard if every lane is losing. In games like this you almost have to stick to farming just to stay somewhat relevant and look for opportunities as a team to pick off some of the enemy members.

I love jungling but I can't stand it when every lane losses. At the same time in the rare games where every lane wins I feel like I don't contribute too much. I feel as long as I have one lane win or stay even I can contribute enough to bring out a win. But in the games where every lane losses hard its pretty damn hard to pull out the win.

Sire HippingtonOct 11, 20164 votes

They **can **still be doing things

'CAN', this is the big issue. If a jungler doesn't gank, then he should well damn make sure he gets deepwards in the opposing jungle and/or sets up counterganks. A jungler needs to impact the map, and there are generally two ways to do it: applying ganking pressure(which includes ganking an empty lane to take a fast tower or just zoneing an opponent so you laner can savely catch that huge wave), or by preventing the opposing jungler from applying pressure by deepwarding so you can keep track of him, counterganking, counterjungleing and simply figthing him in the jungle(which requires backup from lanes usually). If a jungler does neither of that, which sadly happens often enough, he just fails and allows the opposing jungler to take controll of the game. Ofc there are also situations where the jungler can't do any of those whether he wants to or not, like if midlane looses hard and their mid+jungle are coordinated(which is why dominant laneing picks are prefered in proplay, if you controll mid, you controll the jungle and thus the game).

TL;DR: IF the jungler does those things it's fine, but many simply stay in their jungle or think just takeing wraiths is enough counterjungleing, which simply is job not done. Also, ganks don't have to be kills, it's about applying preassure or takeing preassure from teamates. Showing your face in a lane just to scare the opponent away and allow your preassured laner to take a breath and savely farm that big wave hitting his tower is totally legit.

dominusxOct 11, 20163 votes

well as far as i'm concerned if i focus another part of the map and you die 1v1/2v2 without enemy jungle preassure and you talk shit to me about it you sure as fcuk gonna play the rest of the game 4v5

Immortal spaxOct 11, 20165 votes

And you both are going to lose the game. Nice trade off.

MarshbouyOct 11, 20162 votes

Tell that to literally ever riven i have ever played with.

Ariel the CruelOct 12, 20162 votes

Didn't you get the memo? Not winning my lane for me is the definition of being useless.

I should be able to go 0/50/0 with 3 CS and still win lane. Anything less means the jungler [and Support if ADC] isn't doing their job!

VeritariusNov 5, 20162 votes

Solo q priority is to gank , especially if u see there is an option to gank . invading and warding are secondary tasks since the whole game is based around winning lanes . just had a game where i froze top and enemy toplaner was deep in lane , easy to gank but my jungler ignored it even after i asked . Enemy jungler and toplaner dove me 3 times since they had lock in ults . i had favorable match up but since i recieved no help i lost the lane . So don't tell me jungler is not useless if he is not ganking , you can counter jungle only if you have pressure in lanes , how do you creat that preassure ? BY GANKING, HELPING LANERS .

SylvantOct 12, 20161 votes

im actually not bothered by the fact my team call me useless when im unable to gank, because i do feel useless in such situations. What bothers me is they dont understand the reasons why im "useless" and often they have nothing to do with how good i am, or at least its not because im bad. Very often is because they push lanes, or im simply unlucky to hit the right moment for good gank and spend time for unproductive camping which sets me back and when the enemy has good opportunities(provided by my team) and win fights and comes ahead....yes i become useless.

LaserDeathBladeOct 12, 20161 votes

A good amount of time, jungler actually is useless

In my experience laners don't understand that jungle can get completely screwed by factors they have very little control over. Sometimes rather than working to overcome that, people just rage.

OglafNov 5, 20161 votes

The best situation is when they keep the enemy huddled under their tower, and when they inevitably get ganked by the enemy jungler they rage "OMGWTFBBF NO GANKS REPORT!" or somesuch.

Trust me, it happens all the friggin' time.