It really bugs me that no Rioter has talked about Volibear

CaptainMårvelous · 2015-08-30T17:32:39.023Z

His kit is BORING. Volibear, to me, feels like the only champion Riot made where they said "People will play/buy this no matter what, we don't have to try in making his kit" and made one of the most bland designs I've ever seen. Passive- A min-mundo ult. This really is just a "second life" punishment for hitting him down. Why does a bear have a regeneration mechanic? Because "A bruiser/tank needs some manner of sustain". Q- MS boost plus a flip. There's no creativity to this skill, it was a sandwich between Garen Q but with a Singed flip. The animation is cool but it feels quite unsatisfying to just run up and flip one person. "A bruiser/tank needs some kind of hard CC and gap closer" W- Bonus AS with an execute. The "We want him to jungle" skill. Slap them three times, bite, that's about the sum of it. "A bruiser/tank needs the ability to jungle and have threat" E- AoE slow with a fear component. The fear is an interesting part that separates it from just another generic slow...but outside of that, it's still kind of bland. A short AoE slow where the minion fear doesn't really come into play. "A bruiser needs sticking power" R- The actual interesting part of his kit. Volibear's thunder claws really make for some neat builds and splitpushing/teamfight potential. If there was one skill I'd want preserved in some manner, be it an ultimate or turned into a basic, it's this. Yes, you could apply my arguments to almost any champion but Volibear just feels unsatisfying. His kit doesn't feel particularly unique outside of his ultimate and he really doesn't bring much to the table in terms of meat shield or raw damage. With a concept like a thundering armored bear, Riot really let this guy fall into obscurity and didn't give him anything interesting. Hell, how many people actually KNOW Volibear exists? Sure he gets to the job done but he's so forgettable kit-wise that most just pick him for the sake of aesthetic if they really like bears. I hope Riot has some plan for Volibear because he needs a stronger gameplay identity. This mishmash tank bruiser thing is a really gross holdover from S2.

SexySoapTurtleAug 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

First off, we agree with you on that; there's really not much that's really exciting about the character. Awhile back, we started some early exploration on Volibear that unfortunately didn't really go anywhere promising. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but I figured the response was better than nothing. I'm sure we'll give him another look in the future, but there's nothing really concrete planned at the moment.

Since you didn't seem to specifically mention it, is there a reason you're interested in Volibear? Is it that you like him and would like him updated/modernized? Or is it more just a general reminder to us that he's bland?

Please make voli a support.

ChimeiTekinaNasuAug 30, 20159 votes

{quoted}

Please make voli a support.

ha. Hell no. He don't need to be one

SexySoapTurtleAug 30, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gin Gomi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ElxUeEAn,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-08-30T21:56:59.236+0000)

ha. Hell no. He don't need to be one

Ha thats your opinion. You aren't the majority of players.

ChimeiTekinaNasuAug 30, 201511 votes

ha. That's just you also. The majority of players don't play him as support either

SexySoapTurtleAug 30, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gin Gomi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ElxUeEAn,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-30T22:35:17.870+0000)

ha. That's just you also. The majority of players don't play him as support either

I'm not sure if you actually believe you are correct in this situation. I stated my opinion i didn't ask you to respond or give me yours. I think blocking you will suffice.

ChimeiTekinaNasuAug 30, 20155 votes

lol You block people for having a conversation with you, or you block people for having different opinions than you?? lol

SexySoapTurtleAug 31, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gin Gomi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ElxUeEAn,comment-id=0004000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-30T23:55:12.474+0000)

lol You block people for having a conversation with you, or you block people for having different opinions than you?? lol

Are you stupid? I didn't ask for a conversation. This isn't a conversation. This started with YOU talking to me for no apparent reason. Now you're trying to use my argument against me but failing at it

Jeddy017Aug 31, 20156 votes

So you post on the internet not expecting someone to reply? Bro,whenever you post anything on the internet,you opening the door for people to reply.If you don't want potential response,then don't post anything.

ChimeiTekinaNasuAug 31, 20154 votes

o.o lol Holy crap. This temper tantrum is so real.

"for no APPARENT reason"?? "make voli a support">"he don't need to be one". So it wasn't apparent nor obvious that I replied to your comment because of that?? O.o..... Okay.

IcyPepperAug 31, 20155 votes

Are you stupid? I didn't ask for a conversation. This isn't a conversation. This started with YOU talking to me for no apparent reason.

Actually, this started with you responding to RiotRepertoir, making it a thread instead of a solo comment, thus inviting other people to respond to your response.

Don't want a conversation? Don't start one.

Chromatic EagleAug 30, 20154 votes

The option should be open, but no. Never remade into one.

TsumikiriAug 30, 20154 votes

Yeah lets not force him into one role like Morde :/

But still leave the option open cuz sometimes voli sup is fun...

KingsgraveAug 30, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Please make voli a support.

Volibear needs to stay a Top and Jungler. Making him a support goes against the majority of his playerbase.

Also do you think the leader of Bear People, a Lightning Mystic, would really be a support? He would be leading the charge not staying behind a flimsy archer. Why do you think he sided with Sejuani over Ashe?

Captain AishiAug 30, 20154 votes

i agree, top lane volibear is AWESOME... and one of the main reasons I yell out loud "IMABEAR!"

SpecterVonBarenAug 31, 20154 votes

Do you really think that a harvester of souls and a torturer of minds would be a support? Thresh

DivewingAug 31, 20152 votes

Well.... yeah.... Graves does the work, Thresh gets all the souls.... >_>

NarzghalSep 1, 20151 votes

Volibear is a great support! I love his versatility. He can top, jg, or supp.

ModCaptainMårvelousAug 30, 201521 votes

Hey there Rep. Thanks for taking time to chit-chat! There were a few reasons I wanted to touch on Voli-

1.) He's forgotten most of the time. Most people really don't know about Volibear or gloss over him. The simplistic kit really doesn't do anything in his favor either.
2.) Volibear has IMMENSE potential. character-and-kit-wise Unlike other ursine characters (Ursa, Druids of the Claw, etc) who are often portrayed as hulking brutes but rather stupid outside of "NATURE!", Volibear is not only wise but an advisor to the Winter's claw. He's a warrior but he's patient, intelligent and probably the smartest in Sejuani's little clique.
3.) I made this thread mostly because when people talk about champions in need of updates or reworks, you see the same problem cases brought up over-and-over. Taric has pizza feet. Poppy is a monster. Yorick is a pile of trash. Evelynn has no clear identity, etc. While, as you said, Volibear isn't an immediate pressing concern, he still has problems. IMO it's important to shine light on guys who may not be a direct problem but could still need some love.
4.) He needs a real name. Someone gave up on naming this guy halfway through.
5.) Juggernaut/Tanks are coming back in a major way. I feel it was important to bring up one of the less spoken-off Juggertank characters. You see stuff talked about for Shyvana, Olaf, Garen, Darius, etc but poor old Volibear is clawing at the windows hoping for someone to let him inside.

Chromatic EagleAug 30, 20152 votes

But I like his name. I don't think Riot has ever changed a champion's name before post-release.

RiotRiotRepertoirAug 31, 201518 votes

I feel it was important to bring up one of the less spoken-off Juggertank characters.

I don't think we ever shared this, but when we started working on Juggernauts earlier this year (before we were even calling them that or anything), Volibear was in the group of characters we were considering, and we even got so far as to playtest some stuff for him. Unfortunately, none of it ever really stuck, and we ultimately decided that the character fantasy of getting on all fours and barreling past everyone was probably better served by changes that didn't restrict his ability to do that. A lot of the Juggernauts to significant hits to their mobility, or at least made that mobility situational, and we thought taking that from Volibear would mean damaging some of the most iconic stuff about him.

Hopefully when we get to placing him and working on him, we can find a really cool execution of the wise thunder bear, but it'll probably be some time.

Teridax68Aug 31, 20152 votes

Would you consider doing a pass on diver-type fighters at some point? Light fighters are pretty consistent in their heavy focus on damage-heavy builds, and are being reworked one by one, and Juggernauts are now their own subclass, but tanky mobile DPS fighters are a hodgepodge of champions who don't really seem to have a consistent subclass theme other than having access to more overall effects than most others. What should the overall fantasy be for a diver? What should be the consistent goals, strengths and weaknesses be for diver champions?

BluePolarizerAug 31, 20152 votes

I don't think that Jax, Irelia, Master Yi, etc. have an identity problem.

They all have some innate tankiness/slipperiness, they all have high sustained damage and they all prefer diving backlines to slugging it out with the frontline. The game fantasy should be being able to jump into the middle of the enemy team while it is in chaos from an initiation, and in the middle of the chaos take down the enemy squishies such as ADC, mid and support.

Their weakness should be needing relatively large amounts of gold to come online, still being very peelable melees and being useless if they don't have gold. Jax and Yi fit that well.

ModCaptainMårvelousAug 31, 20157 votes

That's fine. Like I said, I just wanted to bring attention to him and it makes me quite happy that Voli was looked at in some capacity. Even if it didn't work out, at least you guys tried.

Can't wait to see what you guys have in store when he finally gets to feel the storm!

LankPantsAug 31, 20152 votes

and we ultimately decided that the character fantasy of getting on all fours and barreling past everyone was probably better served by changes that didn't restrict his ability to do that.

Wouldn't that also kind of rule out Shyv and Olaf who you've often talked about in the same vain as the rest?

EnderForHegemonAug 31, 20151 votes

Can Voli have some of Garen's mobility and tenacity? His passive is amazing, but it'd be so much better if he could charge in to engage, tank, have passive popped, and squeak out alive with some added tenacity/mobility

Teridax68Aug 31, 20152 votes

Garen lost his tenacity on his rework, and tenacity is generally heavily frowned upon on champion kits due to how it devalues often crucial and well-used crowd control. Fighters in general are meant to be vulnerable to kiting and control, and there are ways to make them more resistant to crowd control that do not involve making CC just flat-out weaker against them (more situational defenses and cleanses can help, for example).

EnderForHegemonSep 1, 20151 votes

I know the update. I'm saying I want the tenacity that garen lost to find a home somewhere else. Any tanks that you think of when you mention situational cc resistance? I agree that giving tenacity on a kit is a risky thing for game health

Teridax68Sep 1, 20151 votes

Garen isn't a tank, but his Q slow cleanse counts as situational CC resistance ( Volibear isn't really a tank either, more of a diving bruiser with sub-par mobility). Alistar might also count, though he's a support tank. I also don't think on-demand tenacity was ever really iconic or that fun on Garen, nor is it even unique ( Irelia has permanent tenacity, and DrMundo can also give himself CC reduction on demand), so it's not really a mechanic that needs to stay on a champion.

EnderForHegemonSep 1, 20151 votes

Well that's personal I guess, because Garen's W prior to this patch was my favorite part of him by far, playing a tank who can walk in and out of the enemy team at will. Sure, he doesn't do much damage, but his Q lockdown on a priority caster together with his W was the reason I played Garen, and I'm not sure who I can use now for that lockdown-tank-who-can-walk-away. Hence suggesting that vili could possibly take some of the parts of Garen that I found the most enjoyable, now that Garen himself lost them.

cHAncEman1292Sep 1, 20151 votes

I think it'd be an interesting change that if in addition to moving quicker towards enemies if he knocked them out of his way when he passed them - in a manner similar to Vi's ult. I think this captures the "hulking, large" bear fantasy of Volibear. Maybe even have him ignore unit collision to make it easier for him to dive.

I'm curious to see how Riot can push him to be more unique. What if his Thunder Claws proc'd on-hit effects or reactivate it to super changed his AS/ stun units he bites.

The only things i really think that Volibear has that's character defining is his Ult and his run. Even then there's a lot of parrellels that could be made with Skarner, Hecarim, Shyvanna, Mundo+Singed.

Shibe the DogeSep 1, 20151 votes

I don't have too many ideas on what you could do to change his kit, but one idea that seems really appealing to me is the idea that, what if instead of his q giving him movespeed, it was like a mini sion/hecarim ult where he targeted an area and charged in a straight line, pushing aside all enemies in his way (similar to dravens axe thing) and flipping the person at the end of his charge. I don't have any more ideas at the moment but that seems like a really fun way to give the bear a little more character on his charge.

cZairSep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't think we ever shared this, but when we started working on Juggernauts earlier this year (before we were even calling them that or anything), Volibear was in the group of characters we were considering, and we even got so far as to playtest some stuff for him. Unfortunately, none of it ever really stuck, and we ultimately decided that the character fantasy of getting on all fours and barreling past everyone was probably better served by changes that didn't restrict his ability to do that. A lot of the Juggernauts to significant hits to their mobility, or at least made that mobility situational, and we thought taking that from Volibear would mean damaging some of the most iconic stuff about him.

Hopefully when we get to placing him and working on him, we can find a really cool execution of the wise thunder bear, but it'll probably be some time.

I don't know if you would read this, but what do you think of using his frenzy stacks to make his Q and E stronger. Yes, you still can't uses your W because you have to build up your stacks again but it be cool. Like at 3 stacks E it's a Bigger AoE and it fears champs and his Q either makes him do a dash because of how much power he's using or make him have a faster speed.

For his Ult I love that you made his range longer for the lighting and made it that the slow from item 3116 would work. I will say I love the idea of him shooting out lighting when he does his animation for his Ult and this lighing shoots out of him. But it's only one. I think it be cooler if it was 4 that can also hit chain 4 champs, but it can only stack up 2 times per champ. So if 1 champ get's hit by 4 chains of lighting it would only be the damage of 2 (150/230/310(0.6AP)). This would make his ult seem more bad ass then he stats it up. Then the rest what he does normally does for his ult. I was thinking of giving him a passive for his ult but I think it be to much because of the idea of the idea for his activation for his ult. It seems to me what you guys were thinking of making Voli AP when you made him and I don't see people doing AP on him. so I was thinking of him converting AP into Armor because he's the armor bear.

But yeah I don't think he needs everything reworked but I thought he could be like updated and given some cool new tools.

P.s. If would also be cool to have a %AP on his Q because of the tornado that's made when he flips a champion Please. Also it's still physical damage.

CujoDec 23, 20151 votes

I'm honestly just shocked and appalled you guys were legit proposing and actively working on retooling him.

All the people on this thread seem to be saying: "I picked up Voli and liked him. Played him quite a bit. I only see him as tank and I build him tank and don't think he is a fighter type champion. I just don't know why I can't deal more damage than I want to. I think we should totally change his kit."

Sometimes, he just can pan out to be the greatest pick, but do people really feel like he's "lackluster"??? Plenty of other factors go into the way he can perform in a game. Things/events that turn out in a single match itself, team comps or IDK how bout the god dang TENACITY NERFS. Mercury's treads nerfed, Elixir is nice... when I can afford to take over finishing an item. You pretty much gotta have the elixir and boots to get anything that actually feels like Tenacity. And why is it that I gotta take a Resolve Keystone to get 15% Tenacity? Why are the keystone Masteries called Keystone masteries but the five points i gotta spend above them aren't? Meanwhile I have to then choose between only taking one other mastery tree's % increases for my bite.

ahh.. I digress. Just saying a lot of factors add up to affect this champ besides his kit. Voli gets away with a lot. He can do things no one else can. But he still has problems. Let's keep those problems, but decide how disastrous they have to be for him by nerfing fiora or the mages or something :)

You could buff his Q. I think that would be the proper maximum effort into specifically helping Voli. Yes, do that.

IcyPepperAug 30, 201511 votes

I wouldn't mind him a bit more modernized, and to fit his theme a bit more.

Volibear, the Thunder's Roar. A tribal warrior and mystic powered by lightning.

Chosen of the Storm is just health regen when he gets low?

Rolling Thunder is just him running. Where's the lightning or thunder? Where's the BOOM!?

Frenzy fits, I guess.

Majestic Roar is pretty alright, but I feel like it could be more majestic since it's just more roar at the moment.

Thunder Claws is awesome.

What I think Voli needs is to take a page out of Riven's book. Make his abilities a little more flashy (I know that sounds really bad, but it's lightning! Lightning is flashy) and more "Power of the storm!" than a bear running around and flipping things. I can see something of the likes where his abilities are channeling the power of lightning with some more visual effects, but his ultimate buffs his abilities like Riven does.

1 800 MID LANEAug 31, 20152 votes

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

coralsAug 30, 20154 votes

I like his ult, and his bite. His Q is alright. I kind of hate his slow since it can be so much more. I think his ult is what attracted me to the character. He feels like he should be given a juggernaut update to be honest, he sort of fits the theme. Along with udyr, who looks like he is over shadowed by my favorite champ (still) skarner right now.

EDIT: His innate is sort of meh. Its cool when you barely survive, but if something has to go to introduce new elements in the kit it is definitely up there on my list of things I am not attached to about the character.

ChimeiTekinaNasuAug 30, 20151 votes

WOW. ANOTHER PLAYER ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT MY FAVORITE CHAMPION. MIRACLE OP. I remember when I use to play him all the time. I had like 600+ games with him in Season 3. Then when I was being in better and tougher matches, I realized how useless he kind of was. Then I started to play him less and less in Season 4. Now I rarely play him. I have changed his runes and masteries so much before.

2 main things I notice on him.

His attack speed is a bit slow to get his 3rd W charge, especially since you build him more tank than attack speed. You would build a Randuin on him before you ever get a Phantom Dancer on him. There's no tank item with attack speed to help him get his W up when he needs it in fights. That, and in fights, after you bite one person, you're kind of useless for 10-15 seconds. Even enemy has hard CC, you won't be able to get out of the fight in time for to use your bite again. Even if you were able to, it'd take too long to get another W charged up again. Your team can't wait 10+ seconds for you to be useful again and you're going to die before it's off CD if you stay in the fight instead of getting out after you use it once.
When a champion has a tough laning phase, they can always wait it out to be useful later. Like Nasus, or a Riven after she gets her first few items and can then nuke ADCs. However, a behind Volibear is a horrible Volibear. Period. Late game?? Please. He won't last that long. When you get behind, it's easier for ADC to kite you with their faster attack speed and with their mechanics, which in higher ranks, people know how to kite very well and you won't have the items to be able to catch them. Even if you manage to get your items, enemy will be further ahead for you to kill them in time. Volibear needs to be ahead to be any good. Even or behind is kind of meh, and Volibear can't always snowball his lane.

Hmmm, I feel like I'm forgetting something on that. Well, I would like a little faster attack speed, maybe 2-3 sec less CD on W, and would really want a better quality skin for him like Runeguard but with white fur. Like 975-1350 quality with white fur. Kind of wish his Runeguard skin can just be changed to white. HE'S A POLAR BEAR, NOT A BROWN BEAR.

Oh. I remember something now. His Q. Man, there is no hope for that. Some champs can just kite that crap for days. It's not very reliable. Unless they manage to let you get 2 inches from them, then charge and get them. Mobile champs>Volibear, and there's just too many mobile ones that can easily escape his Q for anyone to bother playing him. You would basically need a champ or two like Jarvan or Vi to help him get his target. He has no mobility cause his very strong bite makes up for it, but neither is that reliable or much good, especially after one use.

coralsAug 30, 20152 votes

I played a lot of him, till his kit got kind of stale. I love his ultimate, but beyond that its hard to pin down what I like about him.

I have mixed feelings about his bite. I think it takes up a lot of his power budget, and its damage can be brought down in exchange for a cooldown reduction. With the power shifted else where. But then I feel like that would make him less unique, since then his W would be more like elises and other nukes. Just an ability with ok damage that gets a little better at lower health. So I guess I kind of like that its something to be feared.

What do you think?

SuperLuigiLXIVAug 31, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gin Gomi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ElxUeEAn,comment-id=00040004,timestamp=2015-08-30T22:32:35.954+0000)

Oh. I remember something now. His Q. Man, there is no hope for that. Some champs can just kite that crap for days. It's not very reliable. Unless they manage to let you get 2 inches from them, then charge and get them. Mobile champs>Volibear, and there's just too many mobile ones that can easily escape his Q for anyone to bother playing him. You would basically need a champ or two like Jarvan or Vi to help him get his target. He has no mobility cause his very strong bite makes up for it, but neither is that reliable or much good, especially after one use.

I think Voli needs a pass around the same time as Shyvana and Olaf, myself. But I'm not sure making his Q more reliable is the answer...I mean, his kit basically leaves him the same as Garen, easily kited but terrifying if he catches you. Garen can remove slows, making it easier for him to get on you, but I'd argue that Voli is way scarier when he DOES get on you, since he can execute so much more often.

I think they need to take the concept of Voli's chain lightning and run with that. Garen is scary one on one. Darius is scary if he can get into the middle of your team. I think Voli should be particularly scary in skirmishes, where he deals the maximum amount of damage when he has 2-3 champions to pound on at once. That would improve his ganks as a jungler, since if he gets on you, he can do some real damage, and it would make him one of those top laners that does really well turning and standing his ground against a gank, like Renekton or Aatrox.

Okay, just to throw this out there: What if his W passive caused his autos to cleave and hit 2 additional targets, instead of ramping his attack speed up? And his autos and cleaves marked enemy champions? Then his active could be to launch a single blast of chain lightning that jumped between all marked targets (provided they were within "chain" range of one another) and also damaged anything in the lightning's path, consuming the marks in the process?

As for his Q, one thing I think that would help would be to make it so he runs through minions when he uses it, and either have it clear slows like Garen, or give it scaling slow resistance.

E...what if Voli could tether himself to a champion with lightning? Say, give the move 600 range or something, and have Voli tether himself to a champion for 2 seconds. During that time, any time Volibear suffers crowd control, his tethered target suffers from the same crowd control. That wouldn't stop champions from running from him, but they couldn't just fire a slow/snare skillshot at him and spam laugh since they know he has to run in more or less a straight line at them. Vayne pushes him away? She gets shoved in the same direction and is no farther away from him than she was before. This would probably be a little too strong in teamfights though :/

Captain AishiAug 30, 20152 votes

I feel like his Q is the only thing that need tweaking to make him awesome, maybe transform it into a skillshot dash that ignores unit collison until it reaches the targeted area and flips every enemy in that small aoe zone upon arrival or something...

his current E is vital for trading in the laning phase when played top

his ult is really strong and synergizes very well with wits end/sated devourer (i think it does?) but he has trouble staying on his target for more than a few autoattacks because of how his CC work

and W for biting people's heads off is a simple but really satisfying ability

cZairSep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

First off, we agree with you on that; there's really not much that's really exciting about the character. Awhile back, we started some early exploration on Volibear that unfortunately didn't really go anywhere promising. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but I figured the response was better than nothing. I'm sure we'll give him another look in the future, but there's nothing really concrete planned at the moment.

Since you didn't seem to specifically mention it, is there a reason you're interested in Volibear? Is it that you like him and would like him updated/modernized? Or is it more just a general reminder to us that he's bland?

I think Volibear should uses his frenzy as a niche, Like giving him the power to make his Q and E better when he has all 3 of his frenzy stacks. Like His Q makes him run faster and do more damage than his normal q and his E range is bigger and champs can be feared for 1.5 secs. Of course he can still not use his w without his stacks. So you have to make a choose.

I was thinking for his Ult Sense it shoots out a chain of lighting when activated that is can shoot out more than just one. Like 2-4 but 2 chains lighting is the max a champ can be damaged by. He's also at full frenzy stacks after the activation.

Also for his Q I really like to add on some AP% on it and when he flips a champ when he has thunder claws activated. The damage from the thunder claws hits twice.

Tell me what you think. I think it's op but I'm trying to think of ways to scale this back something. I was mainly trying to think what would be a good niche for voli and a better ult.

CujoDec 23, 20151 votes

Don't you ever change Volibear. Ever. Don't do it.

Buff his Q to the effect of what you did with W getting reduced CD on Monsters. Small things. Those "quality of life" type buffs you talked about. He's just gotta be one of those champs that is a role model of a balanced kit that may or may not be as viable in different metas and/or team comps. And it should only be up to the player to be able to adapt strategy around those.

Please. I have played thousands of Volibear games.

It really bugs me that no Rioter has talked about Volibear

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