Please lower ekko's base ability damages

IAmWoralo·Apr 4, 2016·219 votes·23,845 views

I just played a game against another Ekko and I must say it is amazing that the guy can build full tank, not a single AP item and still do the single most damage of every player in the game. This in combination with his insane utility kit and unforseable bursts with an almost morgana snare lenght stun, makes this champion way too powerful when mastered.

So I would suggest, lower his base AP dmg on his abilities and increase his AP ratios, because a full tank Ekko shouldn't be able to tank everything, deal damage, be a master of peel and slow and get away with it when he's feeling breezy.

There seems to be no way around this guy, he's like a zac ult but all the time.

238 Comments

LaughingMan11Apr 4, 201652 votes

I'm happy to say this is probably one of the most reasonable complaint threads I've read. Not only did you state your grievance, but you stated a logical solution to the problem, other than "gut this champ." I do agree, base damages are kinda high on Ekko, thats why even full assassin Ekko is so crazy strong, because his AP ratios arent bad currently either.

ChaosThiefApr 4, 20164 votes

Currently I play assassin ekko mainly, and it is quite dumb that early on a single rotation (2Q + E + auto if 1 hit of Q misses) can take 1/3-1/2 an enemy's HP with just a doran's ring.

I wouldn't mind shifting power into the ratios, just be ~~a bit~~extremely careful with it. Ekko can already burst targets down quite easily if you slip up, and late game he does hurt quite a bit...

LaughingMan11Apr 4, 20162 votes

It would have to be a gentle nudge, basically dont take away his late game, while still finding a way to make his early game slightly less oppressive.

GotodeadApr 4, 201632 votes

buffing a champ 3 times in a row that was balancecd, who knew that would cause problems? AYOo CLOWNFIESSTA

Br4ndonApr 4, 20166 votes

Lux

Eevee In A JarApr 4, 20162 votes

But Lux is a grill and can sell as a sexy mascot.

Whut Thuh Apr 5, 20163 votes

lol did you mean a girl? or did you actually call her something you put bbq on

Eevee In A JarApr 5, 20165 votes

You can put your meat on her and watch it sizzle

TotalJerkApr 5, 20163 votes

Lux is among the least sexualized human female characters in the game.

Shrek LuigiApr 5, 20166 votes

that's what makes her so hot--she's the saintly babe amongst a sea of hooker chanps. the biggest tease there ever was Lux

RiotAD YuumiApr 5, 201629 votes

The first thing we're looking at for this is actually going to be things like items and masteries. We're not sure about exact changes yet but it feels like Ekko isn't the only squishier dude up top building "The tank stuff" and being successful.

If those changes don't bring him into line I'd agree with you that the bases are a bit too high and ratios too low for a char we want to build AP. My thoughts would be to hit the E base by a bit and give it more ratio. Goal wouldn't be to "kill" tank Ekko, but to make sure he's closer in power to the AP build. The E numbers were originally made in a time where Luden's Ekko was a lot stronger. Since E could proc Luden's AND Lich Bane it needed to have lower AP scaling to control burst. With Luden's no longer a must buy, E can probably afford to have a higher ratio.

NazzadanApr 5, 201612 votes

Are bruisers going to be compensated for what is probably their masteries and items being changed for the worse?

Troy242621Apr 5, 201626 votes

{quoted}

Are bruisers going to be compensated for what is probably their masteries and items being changed for the worse?

You must be new here.

NazzadanApr 5, 20162 votes

I'm just having Nam flashbacks to when they gutted Gunblade to try and get around nerfing Akali when she was absolutely busted in I believe it was early season 2. They nerfed every item she built, ruining plenty of other champions in the process, and finally after they nerfed every item she built and she was still busted they nerfed her directly. They then didn't rebuff the items, and gave no compensation buffs to the champions that were severely nerfed by the item changes. Just seems like a really bad design philosophy.

Only Play DariusApr 5, 20166 votes

The only compensation bruisers are getting is nerfs to their favorite items. item 3053 item 3025

Thanks ADC's

BADxW0LFApr 5, 201617 votes

Honestly, I think that it is a bad idea to nerf the items because you effectively nerf the champs who actually need those items. Don't nerf the tanks just to buff the over powered champs who abuse them.

TotalJerkApr 5, 20164 votes

It's going to be a necessary sacrifice, though. There are way too many champions abusing them. A high elo streamer even made a point of it by building a bunch of assassins as tanks and still doing well.

BADxW0LFApr 5, 20163 votes

So Riot should do something about the scaling of said champs rather than nerf the tanks themselves. It isn't a necessary sacrifice, it is a cop-out.

Make the scaling higher/lower so it seems more appealing/necessary to buy damage items.

Hinagiku33Apr 6, 20163 votes

The problem is that Fiora MasterYi Akali all scale really hard as it is and were still built tanky. This is because damage in general is extremely high right now and Marksmen are basically god-tier just for being in that class, so squishy melee champs just explode before just trying to get into range.

Even if you do some AD/AP scaling adjustment it won't matter. Melee champs don't feel good building full-damage because they won't get to use it. Being a tanky, stat-ball that soaks damage and dishes it out isn't good for the game in general. I think Riot is trying to lower the power of bruiser tank/damage items to make "Sunfire/Iceborn/Titanic for everyone!" no longer optimal and then they can put the necessary power into champ kits that need it.

MinuanoApr 5, 201611 votes

The problem is that just about any champion can build sunfire + iceborn/titanic and suddenly they do tons of damage and are also tanky. Tank itemization right now gives too much damage on top of the defense.

L0ve Is BlueApr 5, 201610 votes

Maybe not nerf, but make them stronger on the intended champions. For example:

item 3053 item 3748 scaling of BONUS health would be amazing

item 3025 item 3053 meelee only

item 3025 AOE doesn't scale with the items armor, but scales better with bonus armor

ModAcademy KaynApr 5, 20166 votes

Luden's Ekko

What you did there. I see it.

Old Man TeetoApr 5, 20168 votes

The issue it just how inefficient full AP damage builds are for short-range champions.

Ekko has to build the tank items to not die in fights before he can kill someone since between Maw, Schimitar, Sterakk's, and all the normal defensive stuff he isn't going to burst out people reliably.

Magic damage is a requirement on a team -- or we get the issue of god-mode tank with pure armor stack -- and if you can put some magic damage NOT Mid, it's strong since it can affect the top lane. Either between the top/jungle you have mixed damage for ganks, or you force a heavy MR item for a tank's first item so your ADC can get past their 2~3 item pressure point to their 4 item evaporate tanks.

The basic's is that tanks are really strong. However, delaying a tank or forcing them into sub-optimal paths by forcing them to build early MR is great for overall team success since the AP doesn't want to hit the tank anyways in team fights, and the ADC needs to be able to beat the tank in fights.

Jesus is SaviorApr 5, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Goal wouldn't be to "kill" tank Ekko,

Funny, because that was your goal last time you nerfed it.

SantanaTheSlick Apr 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The first thing we're looking at for this is actually going to be things like items and masteries. We're not sure about exact changes yet but it feels like Ekko isn't the only squishier dude up top building "The tank stuff" and being successful.

If those changes don't bring him into line I'd agree with you that the bases are a bit too high and ratios too low for a char we want to build AP. My thoughts would be to hit the E base by a bit and give it more ratio. Goal wouldn't be to "kill" tank Ekko, but to make sure he's closer in power to the AP build. The E numbers were originally made in a time where Luden's Ekko was a lot stronger. Since E could proc Luden's AND Lich Bane it needed to have lower AP scaling to control burst. With Luden's no longer a must buy, E can probably afford to have a higher ratio.

Ekko passive is the problem not the items. WHY DO YOU ALWAYS DO THIS. JUST NERF HIS PASSIVE AND TONED DOWN HIS KIT AS A WHOLE.

CitadelOfIceApr 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The first thing we're looking at for this is actually going to be things like items and masteries. We're not sure about exact changes yet but it feels like Ekko isn't the only squishier dude up top building "The tank stuff" and being successful.

If those changes don't bring him into line I'd agree with you that the bases are a bit too high and ratios too low for a char we want to build AP. My thoughts would be to hit the E base by a bit and give it more ratio. Goal wouldn't be to "kill" tank Ekko, but to make sure he's closer in power to the AP build. The E numbers were originally made in a time where Luden's Ekko was a lot stronger. Since E could proc Luden's AND Lich Bane it needed to have lower AP scaling to control burst. With Luden's no longer a must buy, E can probably afford to have a higher ratio.

Fix one problem at a time and try to do it in such a way that dose not make more problems. What you are proposing makes as much sense as re-plumbing a house to fix a leek in the bathroom. Yes you may fix the problem along the way but you have messed with so much that you more then likely made 2 more somewhere else. You are going to mess up other champions by changing items and masteries. I know you guys don't want to just play wack-a-mole with problems anymore but there comes a time when you need to do that and stop messing with the base lines.

C9 KingApr 6, 20162 votes

Why not just revet the buffs in patch 6.6? He didn't really need the buffs then.

Privileged JewApr 4, 201614 votes

He's also immune to anything that doesn't cc lock him/burst him to 0 before he can ult - which oh by the way becomes impossible when he builds tank. So unfair. I hate this new tank assassin meta.

My Waifu VanillaApr 4, 201612 votes

They already have done this and it has caused AP Ekko to already be mostly unplayable. AP Ekko is already in a completely contradictory state that is feast or famine, except 9 times out of 10 feasts (and feeds). AP Ekko is a snowball relaint champion that needs items to do relavent damage. However, AP Ekko has piss poor bases for an ASSASSIN to get this lead in the first place and suffers from being a melee AP with zero wave clear to fall back on just a high creep score if his lane goes south (unlike Zed who will just farm anyway and 1 shot the ADC regardless of if he kills his lane opponent).

Tank Ekko does "meaningful" damage only because it is ALL sustained damage and is decently high for a tank. Lowering the bases on his abilities will ruin ALL forms of Ekko and instead hitting his innate scaling with bulk (thriving in extended fights and thus does better by LIVING these fights) and also making his ult all flat or not scale 90%+ with damage taken like it currently does.

Try playing actual AP Ekko. He has very little kill potential in lane against a competent opponent and cannot wave clear AT ALL so is in a lose-lose situation and hitting his bases will make these infinitely worse.

Voluug13Apr 4, 20165 votes

AP Ekko is a snowball relaint champion that needs items to do relavent damage.

You mean like literally every assassin should be?

Choo6Apr 5, 20162 votes

You didn't even bother reading the next sentence explaining that.

"However, AP Ekko has piss poor bases for an ASSASSIN to get this lead in the first place and suffers from being a melee AP with zero wave clear to fall back on just a high creep score if his lane goes south (unlike Zed who will just farm anyway and 1 shot the ADC regardless of if he kills his lane opponent)."

Chuck CharlesApr 4, 20162 votes

ekko does not have nearly high enough ratios on his abilities for an assassin. his E has like a 20% ratio and his Q has a measly 10% on way out. 60% maybe 70% i believe on the way back.

all of his damage is loaded into passive (80%), return Q (60...maybe 70% i cant remember), and ultimate (130%)

besides passive, two of those are the most unreliable parts of his kit. his kit is balanced around basically having to land his stun to get his damage off. if you dont land the stun you are never going to kill anyone and in lane it is impractical to land that stun on someone. this is why ekko really suffers.

ekko early game damage is actually not as bad as you make it out to seem. you can easily chunk someone pretty hard if you get the passive off in lane. the problem is its pretty hard to keep getting it off against a competent opponent.

his wave clear is pretty average. the Q basically instantly clears a wave with ludens or does enough that he is in line with most mid laners. and its a pretty safe wave clear as well as its ranged. i would not say wave clear is an "issue" as it is not a "strength"

ekko just needs a bigger ratio on E and initial Q to give him more pop. his E is very very lack luster right now and it baffles me. sure its targeted undodgeable spell, but it also puts him point blank on top of his enemy and is risky as all hell. it needs to be buffed.

Top Lane TerryApr 4, 201611 votes

In my opinion, it's his passive that's the problem.

Lady HammerlockApr 4, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=not good,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ek1TYEty,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-04T12:06:13.206+0000)

In my opinion, it's his passive that's the problem.

i remember the day they MOVED most of ekko's dmg to his passive and the return portion of the Q his passive does retarded amounts of damage its unreal..

foinhasApr 4, 20163 votes

why is this getting downvoted? he's completely right. His passive is waaay too overload... MS+damge+permaslow... If they reworked his passive it would be much easier to balance him

ReposerApr 4, 20163 votes

To be fair, it's the only reliable damage that he has. I think it's a fair enough spell on its own, especially after they nerfed the slow. The only direction I see being good for it to nerf would be its slow, whilst keeping the movespeed. Either that, or I could see it being fair to reduce how long the stacks last, or increase the cooldown between stacking. One of the biggest things when I play him is how easy it is to stack if your opponent is unaware, or if you have safety against them, either due to them having unreliable CC or low damage in general. But if you think about it, almost all of his general output is on that passive, or is unreliable.

His ultimate is powerful, but generally difficult to hit, and if you do, you lose your main safety. On top of that, his Q does a pittance of damage unless it hits both times, and even then, it's nothing great. His E is more of a mobility tool, with low scaling and low base damage, but is decently powerful with Lich Bane, buy that's obviously perfectly synergized with the ability.

SlaktarTaskenApr 4, 201611 votes

But aren't we having FUN!!!!! God, this season gives me so much space aids, I'm seriously considering settling for my gold badge and getting the fuck out. Hextech, rotating game modes, Draven day, all of this is just shitty bandaids for a season that is lamer than ever.

KING 5HARKApr 4, 20163 votes

Then get out

MelledoneusApr 4, 20161 votes

Found one.

AnidanApr 4, 20166 votes

Er... found one what? There wasn't any lead-up to that. Just a dude responding with 'found one'

TurquoiseYoshiApr 4, 20162 votes

An EU player?

StealthWardenApr 4, 201612 votes

i highly suggest going to a space clinic and receiving treatment...if only aids was something that was funny, then we could all laugh with you.

hopefully you wont have to learn this lesson the hard way.

JasiwelApr 4, 20165 votes

To be fair, Hextech Crafting is perfectly fine on its own; it just came in during a rough patch. Rotating Game Modes will be a breath of fresh air and has been long awaited.

I wouldn't call them bandaids because that implies their goal was to provide temporary relief for outstanding issues. They solved outstanding issues (lack of player reward, lack of fun modes, etc) in actuality.

That said, this season has been the least enjoyable. I think "pulling teeth" would be a good comparison to this season...and either you're the dentist or the patient.

Brimaz The KingApr 4, 20167 votes

First it was fiora then gangplank then Mordekaiser then Darius then xin then yi last was zed now it's ekko every week there's always someone bitching about how strong a champ is. I will say it now for the record ekko qq thread incoming all month of April.

MhihnjApr 4, 20161 votes

funny that you only put the icon for morde

Brimaz The KingApr 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

funny that you only put the icon for morde

I didn't know how to spell his name properly. Lol

10TicklerApr 4, 20168 votes

And yet, each of these champions DO have discernable issues, quite a few stemming from the massive buff that AD-based items got. Fiora : Between Passive Procs, and good Base damages, was able to build Juggernaut, and moved from the "Grand Duelist" Fantasy, into a Generic bruiser playstyle, doing ADC-damages without the weaknesses that come from being forced to buy only damage.

Gangplank : Chain-barrels and Quick-casts, along with Parrley procs and the Armor Pen and speed boosts that were associated with the barrels made laning tough for champions who, traditionally were strong counters to our Pirate Lord and Savior. Also, the new Juggernaut Items that provide AD or Waveclear made it that much harder to kill the Scurvy Swashbuckling Buccaneer.

MaliciousMetal: Everything that's needed to be said about the Iron Revenant has been said, mostly by Malicious himself. Dude's played a lot of Morde, and when someone who mains him is appalled at that level about a rework, well, it says a LOT. He was taken from being one of the few, true AP Bruisers/Juggernauts, and turned into a Supporty-carry-y-duo laner who didn't do anything very well anymore.

Darius : has been an issue since the day he was released. It's easy to see why too. His Armor-piercing passive synergizes well with items that he'd buy naturally anyways ( item 3071 ), and despite his immobility, the Bleed-stack passive and again Juggernaut update, just made him a rather overbearing force in lane. 'Specially with that Heal on his Q. That said, I feel like his ult's the fairest it's been in two seasons, so there is that.

XinZhao / MasterYi / Jax : And all of the other AA-reliant champions who just...jesus. Devourer isn't that strong, not in competitive play, and without devourer or Kog'Maw's 5.0 attack speed, Guinsoo's isn't all that strong either, but the fine tuning done to both items has REALLY scaled well with some champions, the main offenders being Master Q (E True Damage Procs + Guinsoo's stacks + Crits and a Q that avoids pretty much all of the things), Free Win (As he's called in my lowly Bronze, what with the Guinsoo's procs and Heals that would allow him to out-sustain baron EASILY once he'd gotten just base devourer and Guinsoo's) and Jax, who's always scaled well with hybrid damage and on-hit builds that end up making him less of a fighter, and more of an Assassin.

Finally...oh dear.

Zed : Zed, Zed...Zed Zed Zed. Zed's always had a problem with what he does, and doing it just slightly too efficiently. He's a massive bully in lane, with Ranged poke and no mana issues to deter him. Shen's rework did something really smart, and increased his energy costs, balancing him quite well imho. Zed doesn't particularly have that issue, and between that, an AD steroid on his W, an AA steroid for his passive that makes Safely turret farming easier, and the Duskblade giving him even more burst potential...well. And that's not even mentioning the current offenders, Maw/Mercurial, who offer REALLY great stats on top of their passive, ensuring that Zed can survive the enemy mage's burst, and come back with one of his own.

Turrets are feeling pretty weak this season too, but that's an afterthought, considering that if Zed wants to dive you and get the kill, he will, and if you're lucky, he might take ONE turret shot, so long as he has some idea of WTF he's doing.

ayNigerianPrinceApr 5, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Various Felonies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ek1TYEty,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2016-04-04T16:54:54.449+0000)Shen's rework did something really smart, and increased his energy costs, balancing him quite well imho.

What the fuck.

MatezoideApr 4, 20167 votes

Heres the thing: They already did. More than once.

The problem here is that Ekko is ridiculously overloaded. He isnt like Fizz when people built him tank, Ekko legitimately has utility to go full tank.

He is an assassin with enough utility to function as a tank. The only way to kill tank Ekko for good is if he gets a minor rework so he doesnt do 3 different things in a single ability.

SuicideJApr 4, 20166 votes

You do realize that by asking Riot to lower base damage on ekko, they will just nuke items he abuses and watch the other champs that use those items suffer... Instead of lowering base stats.. Fiora anyone?