Anyone find it weird that Kha'Zix doesn't do true damage?

Maple Crusader·Feb 8, 2016·43 votes·10,566 views

deal true damage in their kit, but doesn't.

Then again, Kha'Zix would get broken if he did true damage to isolated targets with his passive.

86 Comments

RiotMeddlerFeb 8, 201645 votes

Thematically it'd be great to have true damage on Kha'Zix. In terms of intended strengths though true damage is something we try to use only where an ability should be consistently strong against a range of targets. Cho's ult's meant to threaten anyone, Kog's passive should be reasonable against whoever he can reach (and he's a partial tank killer marksman too), Vel'Koz is intended to be stronger against tanky dudes than most mages and with Rek'Sai we wanted to give her a bit more power against defense stacking enemies without offering as much extra power against squishies. Kha'Zix however, as an assassin, is intended to be really strong against squishy targets, who he has multiple tools to reach, and weak against those building defenses, armor especially. True damage isn't an appropriate fit as a result, sad though that be from the void=true damage angle.

ShínyFeb 8, 20169 votes

Isn't Kha'zix's unique intended strength to be strong against isolated targets, no matter who it is? Perhaps when you guys do the assassin roster updates, you could give Kha'zix some target-agnostic damage vs isolated targets?

RebonackFeb 8, 20168 votes

{quoted}

Thematically it'd be great to have true damage on Kha'Zix. In terms of intended strengths though true damage is something we try to use only where an ability should be consistently strong against a range of targets. Cho's ult's meant to threaten anyone, Kog's passive should be reasonable against whoever he can reach (and he's a partial tank killer marksman too), Vel'Koz is intended to be stronger against tanky dudes than most mages and with Rek'Sai we wanted to give her a bit more power against defense stacking enemies without offering as much extra power against squishies. Kha'Zix however, as an assassin, is intended to be really strong against squishy targets, who he has multiple tools to reach, and weak against those building defenses, armor especially. True damage isn't an appropriate fit as a result, sad though that be from the void=true damage angle.

True Damage on his Passive if he evolves his R.

Suddenly evolving R might be worth it.

CasterGilgameshFeb 8, 201610 votes

with that logic why does someone like MasterYi an assassin have true damage in his kit with having a crazy speed buff plus an older version of fiora's pre-rework ult on a basic ability.....?

TurquoiseYoshiFeb 8, 201620 votes

Master Yi is more meant to be a melee AD carry rather than an assassin. He melts through people, but doesn't just instakill them like most assassins.

RiotMeddlerFeb 8, 201624 votes

{quoted}

Master Yi is more meant to be a melee AD carry rather than an assassin. He melts through people, but doesn't just instakill them like most assassins.

Yi's intended to have a somewhat longer kill pattern than assassins do, with slightly less ability to get onto his choice of target. Between that, and chaining through multiple enemies if unchecked being an intended strength, we feel it's appropriate he's got some effectiveness against a range of targets.

Lonely FlameFeb 8, 20161 votes

What if you had it so that if he has both Unseen Threat and Evolved Taste Their Fear on the one target it occurs, and only apply a small amount? Or it could occur once you have evolved 3 times, so that his early game/potential laneing phase wouldn't be affected as much but his late game has a little extra boost.

By adding on to Unseen Threat, you reinforce the 'safety in numbers' thing, and punish those who go lone wolf.

It would also be cool because then you would be getting a sort of 'trifecta' damage, in that Unseen Threat is dealing Magic Damage, and Taste their Fear would be deal Attack and True damage.

The LovelessFeb 8, 20162 votes

Add some true damage when exiting stealth, so that way you can deal all 3 damage types simultaneously!!!!!

Make the damage small on the first stealth, but then it stacks up. This might encourage people to evolve stealth if they're in a game where they need to ignore armor.

C9 Scott Free Feb 8, 20165 votes

{quoted}

^^

Yi's intended to have a somewhat longer kill pattern than assassins do, with slightly less ability to get onto his choice of target. Between that, and chaining through multiple enemies if unchecked being an intended strength, we feel it's appropriate he's got some effectiveness against a range of targets.

Then you should really look into Sated Guinsoo Yi because I don't feel like I actually have optimal reaction time available when that guy shows up.

Rinky DinkyFeb 8, 20168 votes

This makes no sense. That build specifically takes more time to kill someone than any other.

AlëkFeb 8, 20163 votes

O_o Sated Yi doesn't kill you nearly as fast as old Crit Yi. The reason why that's strong is that he can build Guinsoo with a devourer and BotrK then go tanky and shred through anyone in the game while actually being able to take a few hits before going down. Old pattern used to be just CC yi once and he died. It takes a lot more focus now and THAT is why he's broken. Guinsoo gives too many stats.

HighH1Feb 8, 20165 votes

you're talking about old Crit yi killing fast? AP Yi was the true pinnacle of bullshit

C9 Scott Free Feb 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

O_o Sated Yi doesn't kill you nearly as fast as old Crit Yi. The reason why that's strong is that he can build Guinsoo with a devourer and BotrK then go tanky and shred through anyone in the game while actually being able to take a few hits before going down. Old pattern used to be just CC yi once and he died. It takes a lot more focus now and THAT is why he's broken. Guinsoo gives too many stats.

I still feel like I'm dying too fast as any non tank and even some tanks against Yi ATM. You have to hope he wasn't doing a camp and wont just show up q quadruple auto melt your head off. Luckily his popularity slumped recently and randomly

laststanding6Feb 8, 20161 votes

So, to you, it's balanced that all master yi needs to melt anyone is sated and bork and all he does then is build full tank yet can out dps jinx and mf and is nearly un-killable?

AbyssphereFeb 8, 20169 votes

{quoted}

with that logic why does someone like an assassin have true damage in his kit with having a crazy speed buff plus an older version of fiora's pre-rework ult on a basic ability.....?

Because Yi isn't designed specifically to kill squishies. He's designed to kill everyone and kills squishies quickly as a result.

Every melee ADC is an "assassin" because if you can 10-shot a tank you can 2-shot a squishy.

OyddAWqJ5rFeb 8, 20163 votes

How much true damage does he really get off on his target before killing them though?

It's just more of an incentive to build attack speed and AD.

TotalJerkFeb 8, 20161 votes

Yi can kill anything but if he gets CC'd anything can kill Yi.

JQKAndreiFeb 8, 20167 votes

Unless he's tankyi haha

RottedApplesFeb 8, 20164 votes

i've got a great solution for you:

kha now does 1 true damage every time he ults. now he fits this theme

SpecterVonBarenFeb 8, 20165 votes

Why not just make his passive deal true damage instead of magic damage and retune it so it's not broken?

8rRa2h0505Feb 8, 20164 votes

Consider: Kha's passive does (bonus?) true damage if the target is isolated. It's fairly clinch, minor, helps him not get completely shut down, and brings back thematic unity.

Best KhaZix VoidFeb 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Thematically it'd be great to have true damage on Kha'Zix. In terms of intended strengths though true damage is something we try to use only where an ability should be consistently strong against a range of targets. Cho's ult's meant to threaten anyone, Kog's passive should be reasonable against whoever he can reach (and he's a partial tank killer marksman too), Vel'Koz is intended to be stronger against tanky dudes than most mages and with Rek'Sai we wanted to give her a bit more power against defense stacking enemies without offering as much extra power against squishies. Kha'Zix however, as an assassin, is intended to be really strong against squishy targets, who he has multiple tools to reach, and weak against those building defenses, armor especially. True damage isn't an appropriate fit as a result, sad though that be from the void=true damage angle.

You could perhaps make it so that his passive does true damage when the target is isolated, that way you're still bumping him towards isolation damage, without giving him a gigantic, tank melting nuke or make it so much more effective against squishier targets (considering it's flat true damage)

iamleburkFeb 8, 20161 votes

Hey that part about Vel'koz being a anti tank mage; if that's the direction you plan on making his niche via the rework, you're going to want to be very open about that. Because most Vel mains I've talked to were more hoping for a mid lane miss fortune type deal.

forrestoFeb 8, 20161 votes

what about making the isolation damage a flat amount of true damage which scales with level? that way you could give it that bonus while being able to tweak the numbers for balance. it would have a lot more clarity on the math side, and could mitigate some of his recent itemization problems. On the flip side, it could be balanced in such a way that it's still strong for assassination/dueling, but not significant enough to wreck tanks. Since it would be a per level scaling rather than scaling with AD or something, it would be easy to pull that off.

Earl EulrichFeb 8, 20161 votes

don´t you think it´s sad that you don´t have a theme for void-champions anymore? earlier in the game all of them apart from koggy had silences, and i think that really gave them a good identity. I think you could have putten a lot more effort into this instead of just outright removing about any silence you could find (e.g. Kassadin surly shouldn´t have the instant silence, but as a q-mark->w-proccs the silence combo move it would promote a high risk-high reward melee pattern for him opposed to the usual step->q+e->run away save harrass // for Kha he could have a small silence on an evolved passive to help him out in some matchups without making it overbearing).

KhâmulFeb 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Thematically it'd be great to have true damage on Kha'Zix. In terms of intended strengths though true damage is something we try to use only where an ability should be consistently strong against a range of targets. Cho's ult's meant to threaten anyone, Kog's passive should be reasonable against whoever he can reach (and he's a partial tank killer marksman too), Vel'Koz is intended to be stronger against tanky dudes than most mages and with Rek'Sai we wanted to give her a bit more power against defense stacking enemies without offering as much extra power against squishies. Kha'Zix however, as an assassin, is intended to be really strong against squishy targets, who he has multiple tools to reach, and weak against those building defenses, armor especially. True damage isn't an appropriate fit as a result, sad though that be from the void=true damage angle.

Good evening , I don't think that khazix really needs true damages since the damages he put on isolated damages is high and the target is almost always isolated in the jungle. I don't think it'll give him something. Giving him true damages will surely imply a nerf in his ratio,making him weaker on non-isolated targets. Sorry,i'm off topic. I just wanted to clarify something you said about Mordekaiser (working on him far in the future). Would it be 6 months?1 year or 2 years? Another thing I would like to know: can a RIOT member establish a ranking of strenght/power between champions (in their lore). We can only make suppositions according to the descriptions in the lores but sometimes it's really hard to compare them. Have a good day :)

TusutakiFeb 8, 20161 votes

The thing is that as Khazix's theme is isolation. Plenty other assassins fill that role of assassinating but better like Rengar for example. So the point comes down to is what can Khazix do what Rengar, his rival, cannot? When you look at their individual effectiveness, K6 is the poor man's Rengar. Rengar doesnt need his target to be isolated but can still deal insane amounts of damage while k6 is essentially his requirement to be effective. And by far, Rengar is more effective against tanks than K6.

DessemFeb 8, 20163 votes

"Kha'Zix now does 1 true damage when he directly leaps onto someone."

abdul569Feb 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Thematically it'd be great to have true damage on Kha'Zix. In terms of intended strengths though true damage is something we try to use only where an ability should be consistently strong against a range of targets. Cho's ult's meant to threaten anyone, Kog's passive should be reasonable against whoever he can reach (and he's a partial tank killer marksman too), Vel'Koz is intended to be stronger against tanky dudes than most mages and with Rek'Sai we wanted to give her a bit more power against defense stacking enemies without offering as much extra power against squishies. Kha'Zix however, as an assassin, is intended to be really strong against squishy targets, who he has multiple tools to reach, and weak against those building defenses, armor especially. True damage isn't an appropriate fit as a result, sad though that be from the void=true damage angle.

how about we can update the evolutions of khazix so that maybe an evolved R means his passive does true instead of magic damage instead (when his ult is activated)

WimbledofyFeb 8, 20162 votes

Just give him a passive that gives him 1 true damage on all his abilities. Then he can have true damage in his kit without it really doing anything. XD

SpeedphoenixFeb 8, 20162 votes

What about making it symbolic? You could add 1 true damage to his q-spell (and reduce it's physical damage by one), it wouldn't change his play-stile in any way but that way we can say that, as a void champ, Kha'Zix has true damage :)

Chaotic ReksFeb 8, 20161 votes

Why not put it on his passive? Just reduce the base damage and convert it to true damage from magic damage maybe?

WeatheredFeb 8, 20168 votes

Better question is why does Kha'Zix's lore specify that he evolves and gets better from each kill, yet he evolves from exp/levels and Rengar get's per kill benefits instead.

EndlessSorcererFeb 8, 20163 votes

I don't think Rek'sai is a void creature.

Isn't she from the Shimura desert?

Maple CrusaderFeb 8, 201611 votes

{quoted}

I don't think Rek'sai is a void creature.

Isn't she from the Shimura desert?

Rek'Sai is a Void creature. The Xer'Sai originated from the Void.

FowusFeb 8, 20169 votes

{quoted}

I don't think Rek'sai is a void creature.

Isn't she from the Shimura desert?

Rek'sai the Void Burrower

XeroKimoFeb 8, 20163 votes

Meanwhile Malzahar - "Where's my true damage?"

{{Baron Nashor}} - "I dunno, maybe in your update? But I'll never get my true damage T_T"

Malzahar - "I probably won't so I feel you T_T"

FantasySniperFeb 8, 201612 votes

He's not a void creature. Neither is Kassadin .

AezanthyaFeb 8, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile - "Where's my true damage?"

{{Baron Nashor}} - "I dunno, maybe in your update? But I'll never get my true damage T_T"

- "I probably won't so I feel you T_T"

He has his pool that deals quite a lot of damage if you stay in it. And it melts squishy and tank alike.

HoridasFeb 8, 20161 votes

They're probably afraid that Kha'zix would get too overpowered. I don't think many assassins are allowed to do true damage.

CasterGilgameshFeb 8, 20168 votes

MasterYi Fiora

SquidblimpFeb 8, 20162 votes

They aren't assassins that are particularly bursty, and they lack long-ranged gapclosers. They're melee ADCs designed to shred tanks and they kill squishes fairly fast as a result.

mogonkFeb 8, 20161 votes

True damage is a tool for dealing with tanks.

Assassins aren't supposed to have tools for dealing with tanks.

Kinda obvious.

OyddAWqJ5rFeb 8, 20163 votes

% health true damage is for tanks.

Flat true damage is countered by health.

The LovelessFeb 8, 20161 votes

Eh..well I wouldn't pick Vel or Rek to deal with tanks.

KhâmulFeb 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Loveless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EhgnOYaz,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2016-02-08T13:36:27.949+0000)

Eh..well I wouldn't pick Vel or Rek to deal with tanks.

velkoz doesn't 100-0 a tank. But he has high base damages so in late game,you have to build item 3135 item 3020 item 3151 . you'll melt their hp with your rotation and passive. Basically,you become a threat for them and they can't ignore your damages (compared to fizz or LB 's rotation which is as deadly as a fart for tanks)

bulletbearFeb 8, 20161 votes

when kha'zix evolves his ultimate his passive now deals true damage instead. numbers stay the same. Thoughts on this? numbers might need to be bounced around for balance. but that might make his R worth evolving instead of his W

Restless SlumberFeb 10, 20161 votes

Kog'Maw doesn't do true damage. What are you smoking?

Maple CrusaderFeb 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Kog'Maw doesn't do true damage. What are you smoking?

Icathian Surprise

Upon taking fatal damage, Kog'Maw remains active for 4 seconds, losing the ability to use abilities and basic attacks but becoming untargetable and invulnerable and gaining bonus movement speed over the duration, increasing to up to to 40% bonus movement speed. He then explodes, dealing 125 - 550 (based on level) true damage to all nearby enemies.