Ideas to balance Rengar.

Melkalla·May 31, 2017·8 votes·2,136 views

Things to take into account: Im a Rengar main, I have managed to get into Diamond on previous seasons (not to say that is a lot, I just want to let you guys know that I am not a guy who knows nothing about the game and the champion) and lastly English is not my first language. Rengar’s has always suffered from an identity crisis, since his release he has gone from AD assassin to tank, to AP assassin to bruiser and the list goes on and on. he has gotten 2 reworks so far…which is a lot considering his time in the game, this caused by riot’s attempts to balance him which is not an easy thing to do. According to riot’s vision today’s Rengar is supposed to be an assassin: a squishy champion that sneaks behind enemy lines and that with the correct use of his abilities and positioning is able to eliminate a high priority target in a small window of time, and if done correctly even make it out alive. The problem with Rengar’s current state is that he works way more efficiently as a bruiser, so most people build him that way because of how he can absorb a whole lot of DMG thanks to his W and still dish out a nice amount of DMG that cannot be ignored to a squishy target. The problem with the previously mentioned is not his W, since it is designed to give him a chance to survive a second or two after killing a target or to get out of a sticky situation, where I think the problem lies is on his Q, more specifically on it's base DMG(too low at lv 1 which hurts his first jungle clear quite a bit and at later ranks a good/consistent base DMG for a bruiser) and lastly it’s DMG distribution(it makes no sense that both strikes deal the same amount of DMG considering the second strike is harder to hit plus it also looks more powerful since it is a piercing attack). So what I propose to fix this is the following: Q - Savagery

Cast time reduced by 0.15 seconds.
CD: 5/4.75/4.50/4.25/4 seconds.
First strike's DMG: 15 / 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 ( + 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 % bonus attack damage) physical damage.
Second strike's DMG: 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 ( + 35 / 45 / 55 / 65 / 75 % bonus attack damage) physical damage.
Second strike’s hit box is a little bit narrower kind of like Yasuo’s Q or Nidalee's Q. here is an image to show the difference: http://imgur.com/gallery/s50sd
Empowered Savagery’s Damage unchanged.

23 Comments

v1k7orJun 1, 20174 votes

just revert rengar and remove Q crit

MelkallaJun 2, 20171 votes

i recall that the only part about his old Q that could crit was the bonus total AD it had but not the bonus base Dmg? i dont understand, pls explain in more detail

DreadlocksJun 3, 20171 votes

Exactly? Why is this so hard for people to understand. lol

slsilvernailJun 2, 20174 votes

How about this, Revert q, fero, and ult, rengar took more skill to play before rework with his ferocity management than he does now. Also Q is so awkward to use.

MelkallaJun 2, 20171 votes

I do not think riot will do that, but i do agree his new Q feels awkward, i think that is because you have to stay still while it goes off, maybe if we make Rengar is able to move while casting, it would solve that problem.

DoozkuJun 3, 20171 votes

If they need to keep his Q as a "skillshot" (you can't dodge it.). Then I'd rather they make it a singular, quicker thrust that looks like his crit animation and makes the same sound. That would be really awesome.

MelkallaJun 3, 20171 votes

but would not that make the ability Exactly like Yasuo's Q except for the Dmg and yasuo's being able to proc on-hit effects?

DoozkuJun 3, 20171 votes

Technically, his old Q wasn't very unique. What made it unique was the systems around Rengar, like ferocity. I'd also imagine this Q to feel much faster and more fluid than even Yas's Q.

MelkallaJun 4, 20171 votes

WOW you are actually rigth about that, one quick thrust might be a good idea. i think the priority is to make Rengar's Q actually feel fluid and not clunky, we migth fix that by doing that or at least by making Rengar able to move while casting his Q.

DoozkuJun 4, 20171 votes

Idk, letting Rengar move while Q'ing would end up looking really wonky with its current animation, plus the dash on his Q wouldn't work if you could move around when casting the spell.

MelkallaJun 4, 20171 votes

ummm, that is rigth, but there has got to be a way to make it more fluid.

DreadlocksJun 3, 20171 votes

How does this help? People like lucian and ezreal can still just E away and kite with botrk after dodging the initial combo. Not to mention he can't 1 shot in team fights still with these changes.

MelkallaJun 4, 20171 votes

To being able to 1shot a target you require:

your Q to be at least at rank 4
going full Dmg
aim at a squishy target
not being behind in gold or exp
hitting all of your abilities on the target(specially the guaranteed crit)

alrigth with the changes i propose it would actually be easier for good Rengar players to get that lead they need, since your base Dmg are higher on the early game and so are the ratios. in other words: not only would Rengar deal more Dmg on the early game, but if going glass canon you would deal more Dmg in mid to late game than the current Rengar, and he would also have an easier time snowballing because of that...which means more 1shots.

And the kitting problem...yeah you got me there, but tbh if i hit my E, and the carry does not have EVERYTHING up it usually means instant death, at least late game.

DreadlocksJun 4, 20171 votes

My problem isn't that i dont have enough damage, its usually that carries are too good at getting out of reach of my Q.. Mid air i cast my E my tiamat, my smite and my W/Q right as i land and most adcs are capable of dodging the Q. Caitlyn trap /or/ net Lucian Ezreal E Tristana W Draven E Vayne Q (esp if she has R up its even harder) Xayah R Kalista Passive

Now for the ADCs that are easier to actually hit your Q with... Jinx Ashe (assuming she doesn't R you, but generally i can still get her) Sivir Her spell shield helps but generally isnt enough. KogMaw MissFortune Twitch Varus Jhin and this is assuming they are alone!!! if they are grouped they are just as hard to 1 shot because the chances of you getting your crit on leap are far far less.

MelkallaJun 7, 20171 votes

Umm I would say that it is ok that Ad carries (at least some of them) have an opportunity to escape Rengar and even turn on him if he messes up something and kill him. And although I do agree that his Q could get some fixes for it to be more fluid and less clunky, I think most of Rengar’s current problems revolve around his Q’s damage, before Rengar was nerfed to the ground he could still one shot AD carries (I do admit the new Rengar on release was pretty op) which is why I would like for him to be changed the way I propose, this way he could still do that but it would be in exchange of his Q’s second strike being harder to hit. Before Rengar’s last Q nerf on patch 7.7(the one that killed Assassin Rengar), here is what I would usually do against those ad carries:

Vayne : I would say she is the hardest to kill, after you jump you can no longer see through her stealth so you have to make a tough decision when it comes to empower an ability: you can do your Q if you think the Dmg will kill her, your W if you prefer to get out of her stun in case she condemns you to a wall, or your E in case you want to hold her in place. The thing that if the vayne player knows what he is doing and you messed up he can even turn the hunter into the haunted.

Lucian : if you land your E after breaking out of stealth he should be dead, if he isn’t and tries to escape it is crucial that you use your empowered E to hold him in place (that way you won’t eat a whole culling to the face). Same principle as vayne applies here; he can kill you if you mess up.

Draven : He can duel you if he catches you mid air with his E, best thing to do is to come from a direction he most likely will not expect in order to avoid this.

Ezreal : catch him with your E after he uses arcane shift, then he is yours.

Tristana : she usually dies before she can even ult you or W away.

Caitlyn : Jump on her and Use your empowered W to get out of a trap or hers E’slow, then proceed her to kill her as usual since after the first chunk of Dmg you deal after breaking out of stealth should take away more than half of her Hp if done correctly.

Kalista : if after the initial combo she ain’t dead then then it all comes to hit your empowered E and take out her remaining hp, she might turn on you if you miss tho and if she has a Botrk and you are not near a bush you are toasted.

When it comes to: Ashe , Jinx and Varus is the same procedure, just use your empowered W to get out of an arrow stun or a snare and then continue to follow up and kill him/her (these guys usually die rather quickly so this is obviously in the case of them surviving your combo).

Sivir is all about catching her with one of your bolas and then she is doneso.

These ones are…doomed: Twitch , KogMaw , MissFortune and Jhin are pretty much dead the moment you ult if they are alone.

DreadlocksJun 7, 20171 votes

They should just revert his Q and W and probably remove the ad steroid in his passive... Basically, a reksai level rework.

MelkallaJun 7, 20171 votes

Tbh I do not dislike his new Q(i just hate how they overnerfed the damn thing) and W, but i do agree that his Bonetooth Necklace should be changed, i think it would be cool if it was a combination of his first Bonetooth Necklace and the one he got on his second rework, that way it would give both Dmg and utility. For example:

1 Trophy bonus: +25 movement speed out of combat. 2 Trophy bonus: Increased vision range while in a brush. 3 Trophy bonus: +10 Attack damage + 10% bonus attack damage 4 Trophy bonus: +15 Attack damage + 15% bonus attack damage 5 Trophy bonus: +15 Lethality

Head of Kha'Zix bonus: ???????

DreadlocksJun 8, 20172 votes

Man its not even worth thinking about all the changes we could make to Rengar because we have zero control over it even being tested. Riot isn't going to be like "okay rengar community, we fucked up and we would love some feedback as to how you think he could be fixed".. In my dreams that would happen...

MelkallaJun 8, 20171 votes

Awww man you are rigth...i just want to believe :( Is not there a way to get Riot's atention or something? item 3070

I miss herJun 15, 20171 votes

Jinx, Twitch, Kog, MF and Jhin are the only ones where you're guaranteed a kill (if they are alone), Caitlyn being relatively easy as well. Varus can just R and Flash and then even if you keep on chasing (assuming you used emp W to get out of snare and you missed at least 1 part of your Q) you usually won't catch up to them or have enough damage (cooldowns cuz Rengar is now an AD Caster) to finish him of. Ashe lategame destroys you even if you empower W her stun (she heals up at least half of the dmg taken) but up until 4-5 items she doesn't really stand a chance. Kalista is squishy and she has no CC so her getting away even with the passive is unlikely. Tristana can put to great of a distance between you for you to ever catch up (W and R), Ezreal just kites you assuming he has blue build and if Draven manages to stop your leap and escape your crit he is usually able to kill you. Lucian and Vayne (maybe Xayah too) are the pinnacle of annoyance. Lucian is usually pretty tanky because of BC and Vayne with her ultimate has so too much kiting potential. This means you can safely assume 5 ADCs will die when you jump at them if they are alone out of a total of 16 (without including other unconventional picks). This for a champion that is supposed to live up the fantasy of an assassin is mindblowing

MelkallaJun 15, 20171 votes

Most likely dead: Jinx, Twitch, Kog, MF, Jhin, Caitlyn, Varus(I don’t really have a problem killing him), Kalista.
Dead under certain circumstances: Ashe (if it is not late game), Tristana(if she dies before she can react), Ezreal(if not going blue build and he does not have all SS up) Draven(if he does not have SS up or he does not interrupt you mid air).
A Real problem since if you do not pull it off perfectly and are not behind. and unless the adc does not have SS up or makes some sort of mistake, you will go home empty handed or die on the spot: Lucian, Vayne.

I think some ADC should have an opportunity to outplay Rengar, but in other cases I do agree Rengar falls short even if playing correctly,but what would you say causes the problem:

Rengar’s Damage?
Not hitting Q?
The kitting?
Something else?

Operation NAJun 16, 20171 votes

You dont use your W as you land, you use it a little bit late to absorb the damage.

DreadlocksJun 16, 20171 votes

And then get cc locked and die for not having empowered ready. Sure it's fine to hold ur w if ur playing more of a tanky initiator, but if ur trying to kill someone quickly.. Use it early