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The biggest mistake Riot ever made

Pommel Knight··44 votes·3,035 views

Is Giving item 3026 ad and armor. Because it is making mobile fighters and skirmishers like LeeSin Yasuo Graves Fiora Irelia and other a nightmare to deal with. This is mainly because these champions were a bit tanky before in lane (mostly ad matchups) and GA is great stat stick that let's them be even more tanky, alongside ninja tabi and being allowed to fuck up more often.

This item might not be a big problem in lane, but if you see one of these champions rushing it as their 3rd item or second if they are junglers. Then that is a big problem. Especially for junglers, as it gives them a free dive and a lot more pressure than the other jungler in every regard. You want to go dragon, but wait lee has GA and he does a lot of dmg, but we also can't ignore the {one of the 3 adc's}.

Any item if it was given ad with armor would be a problem. Even more so that it is Ga with its passive. This is because you are gaining dmg while reducing the opponents own. This is ok for ap champions, where you don't get to aa your ap 3 times per sec. But with ad it is a horrible combo and GA is like a zonias and hp from a tank item combined.

So I suggest that GA be returned its previous stats, because even though you aimed it for Adc's, the champions that aren't meant to have it, which shouldn't have it, are abusing it.

55 Comments

SwiftKitten8833 votes

first it was

AD can get item 3139 becuase AP have item 3157 then it was AD can get item 3156 becuase AP have item 3157 then it was AD can get item 3814 becuase AP have item 3157

NOW its AD can get item 3026 becuase AP have item 3157

....

and yet EVERY SINGLE ONE of those items is more valuable to AD than item 3157 is to ap..

this is getting stupid Riot...

if you are going to get FOUR items for us having item 3157 .. then it better have some seriously broken shit like 250 AP 150 armor and have a 30 second cooldown on the active.. (this was an exaggerated example.. I'm NOT actually suggesting this)

or you know.. you could give US three more items.. and u know actually make it BALANCED

becuase not only did you make it so AD champs more get OFFENSE stats... you made it so AP champs CAN'T get it anymore due to gold slot efficiency

CØulrophobia3 votes

Is it to late to ask for WOTA to be returned?

Kubox3 votes

Now now, let's be honest here, the real comparison to new item 3026 is new item 3102 .

That being said, both are bullshit changes and I hope Riot changes them back or does something different with them.

The Bardic Gay1 votes

{quoted}

Now now, let's be honest here, the real comparison to new item 3026 is new item 3102 .

That being said, both are bullshit changes and I hope Riot changes them back or does something different with them.

I really don't think you can compare GA to Banshee's when AD champions have their own spellsheild item that can't be preemptively popped before a teamfight like BV.

SwiftKitten887 votes

{quoted}

Now now, let's be honest here, the real comparison to new item 3026 is new item 3102 .

That being said, both are bullshit changes and I hope Riot changes them back or does something different with them.

partially yes

no not really... all they did was make it so AD cant get the passive of item 3102 (which they already have a batter version of in item 3814 anyways... you know one that the enemy cant choose proc with a worthless spell 10 seconds before a team fight starts and leave you without it) so why on earth would they want it anyways.

i rarely ever BOUGHT GA. but no one ever did its was a defensive item that made you completely sacrifice and offensive slot. and gave you BOTH armor and MR regardless of which one you wanted.

NOW there IS no sacrifice for AD champs... to get armor.. they do NOT need to give up any item slots...

if AP wants offense and armor we got item 3157 if we want offense and MR we got item 3102

there ARE no other options.. if we want to build ANY more defensive than that.. we NEED to drop a damage slot. and no HP does NOT equal defense

AD not only get item 3156 item 3139 item 3814 which ALL can be built against AP, all with unique passives not overlapping...

item 3026 they not don't even need to sacrifice an item slot for item 3026.

my computer has been fried at the moment so i am LUCKY enough not to have to face someone with all 4 of those..

but just think about trying to KILL any freaking champion in the game.. with those 4 items as an ap champ...

oh and just for icing.. we gave every champ MR scaling now too..

FilDaFunk4 votes

Also, huge problem with Banshee's is that it doesn't build out of item 1057 .

Only Play Darius2 votes

Hourglass can't be strong because Fiddlesticks Kennen Swain would be broken

Dextix LT3 votes

Doesnt stop the ad items, does it?

Schàdenfreude2 votes

Everyone also gets armor per level.

Ratbert13 votes

Everyone gets mr per level now too.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Armor per level is still higher than MR per level.

Schàdenfreude1 votes

People don't want to accept facts XD

FilDaFunk3 votes

Don't forget, item 3814 has Lethality.

TheHappyReaperz2 votes

Didn't Riot say they made an AP version of GA, while the items were in testing, and no-one bought it, so they scrapped it?

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

I haven't heard that, but it makes sense. All the AP users (basically just Akali) that can actually use GA's revive worth a shit have AD scalings, too, anyways.

Thilmer1 votes

{quoted}

first it was

AD can get item 3139 becuase AP have item 3157 then it was AD can get item 3156 becuase AP have item 3157 then it was AD can get item 3814 becuase AP have item 3157

NOW its AD can get item 3026 becuase AP have item 3157

....

and yet EVERY SINGLE ONE of those items is more valuable to AD than item 3157 is to ap..

this is getting stupid Riot...

I remember discussing this a few days ago.

We came to the conclussion that maybe Riot should remove the Zhonya's so the AP champions can get 3 or 4 good ítems instead of getting shit like item 3030 item 3152 because "Zhonya is so good that if we create other good AP ítems AP champions may dominate the meta".

Meanwhile, AD champions keep getting incredibly good ítems and nobody seems worried about.

Arhkadian4 votes

{quoted}

first it was

AD can get item 3139 becuase AP have item 3157 then it was AD can get item 3156 becuase AP have item 3157 then it was AD can get item 3814 becuase AP have item 3157

NOW its AD can get item 3026 becuase AP have item 3157

....

and yet EVERY SINGLE ONE of those items is more valuable to AD than item 3157 is to ap..

this is getting stupid Riot...

if you are going to get FOUR items for us having item 3157 .. then it better have some seriously broken shit like 250 AP 150 armor and have a 30 second cooldown on the active.. (this was an exaggerated example.. I'm NOT actually suggesting this)

or you know.. you could give US three more items.. and u know actually make it BALANCED

becuase not only did you make it so AD champs more get OFFENSE stats... you made it so AP champs CAN'T get it anymore due to gold slot efficiency

item 3157 isn't even a good item anymore :/ if it was still as good as it used to be, then MAYBE you could use that argument, but it doesnt matter, ad champions get whatever they want and more.

THE RlVER KlNG11 votes

{quoted}

Any item if it was given ad with armor would be a problem. Even more so that it is Ga with its passive. This is because you are gaining dmg while reducing the opponents own. This is ok for ap champions, where you don't get to aa your ap 3 times per sec. But with ad it is a horrible combo and GA is like a zonias and hp from a tank item combined.

Really underappreciated comment.

It still boggles my mind that ADCs, AD assassins, and other AD champions have practically every way imaginable to fuck over AP champions with their itemization but AP only gets Zhonyas.

AP itemization has always gotten the short end of the stick item 1058 and GA is just another slap in the face.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Well, the main difference for me is that AD champs have a wider variety of stats they need to fulfill their job... Stats to improve AD damage: AD, AS, crit, armor pen, lethality Stats to improve AP damage: AP, mr pen

Different AD champ playstyles require different stats and so they all get specific items to do their job. We need AD, crit and AS items additionally to armor pen for marksmen to work with. We need AD and lethality items for AD assassins to work.

AP champions on the other hand all just need these 2 stats: AP and mr pen. The only thing I would like to see added is better itemization for AP divers. But besides that.... as long as AP damage always works the same way like that, there is actually no need for more distinctive itemization.

Azure Dancer10 votes

GA is a great stat stick

Only thing worth it is the passive. Stats are not worth the slot.

Pommel Knight11 votes

The reason I called it stat stick is because it gives the two opposite stats. AD and Armor should never mix. Doesn't matter if it's item 3026 , item 3025 , item 3053 , item 3071 or item 3748 should ever be given armor with ad.

This is because any item with an active with some impact, or in GA's case a passive with an active part, will be unhealthy. It will either provide greater resilience or added effect alongside damage and mitigation. It would be ok if it was ap and armor or ad and mr, because those two wouldn't contradict themselves. But ad works off of auto attacks, and providing defense against your opponents aa's while giving yourself a boost is a net positive.

This is different from ap and mr items like I said in the post, you reduce the damage way more. Not just the abilities output, but their aa's too. This doesn't happen with mr, true they don't build ad, but they only lower one way outputting damage while gaining damage. They will still be weak to aa's.

AirKingNeo7 votes

Then it isn't a stat stick.

A stat stick is Deathcap, IE, Rageblade.

Anidan8 votes

A stat stick is any item whose primary function is the stats it provides. GA isn't technically a stat stick even though it has stats because it has functionality that isn't described by stats (revive) that it's primarily purchased for. AirKingNeo pointed out a few, but one could also justifiably call most of the itemization in League stat sticks, because they are.

Azure Dancer3 votes

None of those even give armor and ad. You even gave only one armor item.

Ahristocats1 votes

GA lost 20% gold efficiency and lost overall better stats because MR was better than AD

the reason it's broken atm is because it revives with 50% hp

CØulrophobia2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azure Dancer,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EgoEEY5e,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-05-10T21:06:47.115+0000)

Only thing worth it is the passive. Stats are not worth the slot.

Time to blow your mind with math my friend. Take base HP of 2020(Fizz lv18), we will round it to 2000 so math is easier. 50% of 2000 is 1000. Easy enough right? next MP is 1000 (probably even more because we are countung maximum mana, but this will do for now). 30% Of 1000 is 300. Now gold per point of stats for HP is 2.67 and 1.4 for MP. 1000 x 2.67=2670 300 x 1.4=420 Now we add the 2 together for a whooping 3090 worth of gold. So yeah please explain to me how is G.A. not a stat stick, at least while passive is up.

But wait!!! It is not all! We can futher milk this item by buying Spirit Visage which will increase our heailing to 65% base HP and mana items which will also milk some more cost effecfivity from it. So calculating this with the highest base Hp and MP with Spirit Visage, we can get dum dum dum 6700 gold worth of stats. :D This can of course go even futher but i think i proved my point. While passive is up this item is very very cost effective.

Azure Dancer1 votes

when the passive is up

Plus those "highly efficient" stats only happen when you die with the passive off cd

Corriandr4 votes

I have a love/hate relationship with the new GA. On the one hand, given the champs I like to play, it is good for them. On the other hand, the recent item changes have made them a little over-tuned, with GA being the largest culprit. If they REALLY want to go this route with the changes, they should cut the AD by about Half. Maybe make it build out of a pickaxe rather than a BF sword?

CØulrophobia2 votes

Ad should be removed and instead of it we should get Crit rate and attack speed so it is actualy ADC-item it was meant to be.

AirKingNeo3 votes

You're saying AD champions who build offensively won't build GA? Do you think Riot was stupid enough to think "No damage building Fighter will build this?" They're a far out, but they aren't completely incompetent. No sir, they are not abusing anything. You just want to throw buzzwords around to make your argument seem good. GA's stats are literally one of the least slot efficient in the game. 40 AD? Heavy AD items have near double that. 30 Armor? Laughable. Trying to call it oppressive? Every item that gives offensive and defensive stats always look oppressive while ahead.

Before someone wants to mention Malzahar's or Kog'Maw's reworks, that is the Class Update team, not the Balance team.

CØulrophobia5 votes

You dont get the point do you? This is a perfect item that makes a circle around the AD builds full and perfect. 1.If an AD champion was against full AD team they would either have to go for an entire tank item or go for HP/AD item and hope their other defenses can cover up the weakness. This was made in order to prevent endless fights of lifestealing. Now its gone. 2.But now look at this situation. Fiora is against a mix of AP and AD dmg comp. Normaly she would either have to take a ninja tabi or skip an armor item until later into the game. Now she can build an armor item while not delaying her damage, put in a quick Dervish or Maw and Black Cleaver/Trinity and have boots of her choice. And now she completely rounded up her defense against true dmg, physical dmg and magic dmg. All that on a champion that has way overpumped stats and healing. This makes her have no real weakness, and duelers like Fiora must have a weakness. 3.Next stasis of this item is REALLY long. And now that it has AD its perfect for champions that like to dive IN recklessly ahhmLeeahhhmm. Now these champions can do their job of initiating, diving into enemy team, blowing off their cooldowns, then redoing it a few seconds later AND they get rewarded(instead of punished) for going in to deep and dying by simply getting to go their full rotation again for their team. 4. Next dont forget tanks that do physical dmg. They now have hell on top, bot and jg. 5.It increases value of lifesteal. 6. Its flexible buildpath offers adcs to buy BF sword and if they get ahead they can still buy I.E. while still having a safe pillow to fall on if they mess up, and then another one. Mages cant do this because they need mana on first item. And since adcs nowdays buy ninjatabi i am safe to assume they can even take a cloth armor without much waste. 7.It boosts generalist playstyles. 8.It has no real weakness, and later into the game you can just sell it for more cost efficient item until cooldown is over and it works for any AD champion and that is over 70 champions.

One way i would like to see this item reworked is by simply giving it crit rate and attack speed instead of AD, so it is actualy ADC only item, and far to many champions benefit from AD alone, especialy AD assasins and bruisers.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Is there a problem having an item that an AD can use against other ADs?

Cool but Fiora is buying a slot ineffective item that gives little armor an AD.

Sounds exactly kike Zhonyas only worse stats.

So Poppy? Poppy happens to have a lot of damage already and utility. Her W was indirectly buffed.

Actually it's buildpath is not flexible. It was when the PBE had it be Cloth Armor + Pickaxe + Longsword.

No it does not. You have no idea what generalist means based on this context.

It has a massive weakness. Low sell cost, low slot efficiency, high cooldown. And old GA worked on literally every champion, your point?

CØulrophobia3 votes

{quoted}

Is there a problem having an item that an AD can use against other ADs?

Yes, because AD armor item increases the value of any healing AD champions receive. If you are lifestealing 25hp per hit. Your lifesteal is worth more if you have 500 gold worth of armor as opposed to 500 gold worth of HP. As i stated before some AD champions have an additional healing abbilities, plus we have healing items and supports and buffs which can amplify this. This makes it so one can get into the Fight of AD champions where you deal 17 dmg and heal for 25, and your opponent does the same thing, which is more ridiculous then the tank fights.

Cool but Fiora is buying a slot ineffective item that gives little armor an AD.

Why do you consider it cost ineffective? 40AD, 40AR 50% Base HP is actualy cost effective. For example Fiora has 1999HP lv18(checked the wiki XD) that means she will revive with 1000 HP plus some mana(which is for some reason based around Maximum mana not base mana) , even if she died manaless. When you calculate gold effectivity of mana and hp you get you will see its actualy Gold effective for most champions. In this case we take 1000 HPx2.67=2670 worth in gold. Do you still think its cost inefficient? Mana 300x1.4= 420. I took multipliers from wiki dont kill me if they are wrong. So from my perspective while you have the passive, this item is extremely cost effective for all but 1% of the squishiest champions in LoL(which ironicly should be the one using it).

Sounds exactly kike Zhonyas only worse stats.

No, not Zhonyas. This item is way past Zhonyas level. 4s with heal and mana regen as opposed to 2.5 seconds of just stasis. Not even stats are worse, i explained above. Only thing Zhonya does have better is that you can choose when you want to activate it.

So Poppy? Poppy happens to have a lot of damage already and utility. Her W was indirectly buffed.

Many more though. And I dont really want to, but i will have to say we might see comeback of these tanks after they get buffed.

Actually it's buildpath is not flexible. It was when the PBE had it be Cloth Armor + Pickaxe + Longsword.

Its not flexible buying BF sword on your first back as an ADC? How is that not flexible. You have so many items that build out of BF sword and if you also buy a cloth armor, and never buy the GA, you can turn cloth armor into ninjatabi. Its flexible even for AD champs like trynda, yi, fiora and many more. Only ones i would not consider it flexible is somebody like Lee, who was never intended to be stuck with B.F. sword in his invemtory in the first place. But considering I play a lot of mages, my flexible is a bit different then your flexible. But yeah its more flexibilish XD.

No it does not. You have no idea what generalist means based on this context.

Please explain to me, how is a single AD generalist not buffed by this item? Please I need to hear this?

It has a massive weakness. Low sell cost, low slot efficiency, high cooldown. And old GA worked on literally every champion, your point?

Already explained it above. Lategame its even more broken, since you can switch it out while passive is on CD.

AirKingNeo1 votes

If I buy GA my opponent can buy more damage and win with an item that's slot effective.

Passive doesn't count towards gold efficiency. Plus, the SAME LONG COOLDOWN.

Except Zhonya's has better stats.

What tank besides Poppy deals physical damage? None I know of.

NO. ONE. BUILDS. GUARDIAN. ANGEL. FIRST. ITEM. BUILDING BF SWORD IS NOT FLEXIBLE.

Because you're saying the item supports an AD generalist style. That's completely false, it supports every AD champion, much like Zhonya's for every AP. Again, stop using buzzwords to make your argument seem better.

AS IT HAS ALREADY BEEN STATED YOU COULD ALREADY sell GA late game, therefore that argument makes no sense.

DarkVladimr1 votes

G.A. is cost effective, and only gets more cost effective as game goes on. Lategame you can get 5000 gold worth passive. And passive does in fact counts towards gold efficency, because you can actualy calculate stats it gives you upon revival. And keeping this in mind, no. Zhonya doesnt have better stats. Hmm i can also think of quite a few tanks that do physical dmg. Such as Mundo, Garen, Darius, Nasus. Then we habe champions that are built tanky such as Xin, AAtrox and others which are also in ad-tanks caregory. Dude you dont even know champion pool and you are trying to argue omg. Not to mention you are contradicting yourself every couple of sentences lol.

AirKingNeo1 votes

G.A. isn't slot effective. Rylai's is gold efficient, but the stats just suck in general.

Who is Taliyah3 votes

New GA is an indirect buff to Caitlyn. She can place traps under the target when GA pops.

ExcusemeFellows2 votes

It's not really a buff considering she can do that anyways.

Who is Taliyah4 votes

Well it's kinda indirectly a buff. More people buying GA > they think they survive more shit and overextent > GA pops > cait uses traps and deed

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Cait isn't the only one able to do that, though. Jinx place your E under their feet, they are dead. Jhin place your E under their feet, follow up with W, they are dead. Gangplank time your E with the revive and they are dead.

Hell, basically this works with every champ who has hard CC or a strong skillshot as long as you are able to time it properly.

DunkinNoobs2 votes

We all know the reason they changed GA, right? It's so tanks stop building that shit. I've had enough Poppy's with GA, tyvm.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

And enough 4k health, already basically unkillable Nauts running around.

Sp33d Zer02 votes

GA is a terrible stat stick. Sure it has the stats you WANT, but for the cost, when that revival is down, and if it doesn't activate, its gold efficiency is one of the worst in the game

Pommel Knight1 votes

It's also the only item with those stats, and a revive to boot. Doesn't matter how gold efficient they are as long as you get them both from 1 item.

Ejeffers12391 votes

at least ga isnt an excessively stat efficient item compared to some of the other ad item cough cough IE cough cough death's dance cough

l Dárius l1 votes

and most people still didnt believe me when i said giving squishy ad champs and item to give them damage and armor would be an issue... wow imagine that

Ashen Rider1 votes

At least GA's build path sucks.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

GA is not an effective stat stick, though; it's less than 100% gold efficient.

Melledoneus1 votes

GA is a better and more effective defensive item than any tank item in the game. But that's fine, it's not like tanks were supposed to soak up damage for more than 3 seconds, anyway.

Nilok1 votes

Ironically, this is the very reason they removed Atma's Impaler from the game, even though it gave most of its damage to high hp champions.

It really feels like Riot is relearning the misakes they already made, and why they made the decisions they did before.

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