Why are you guys excited about Yasuo's eventual rework?

chipndip1·Jun 19, 2017·21 votes·1,119 views

Nothing they do to Yasuo will make him accepted by the community unless he's literal garbage. You guys honestly think that a rework is going to help this? Half the time when someone puts up a "What I would do to fix Yasuo" post, it's nothing but a bunch of freaking nerfs...and Yasuo isn't even strong right now. He's got a 50% win rate IN BRONZE, and that's his highest win rate by tier. You guys honestly think you guys are objective and impartial enough to not hate him after a measly minor rework? Don't kid yourselves.

Yasuo's needs to be reworked to the point where he goes from a wandering samurai to a safari roaming scythe wielder with 4 arms before people stop hating him just for existing.

73 Comments

Mira Arya EntheJun 19, 201711 votes

Pretty much this, 90% of Yasuo hate is stigma and bias with about 10% genuine complaints about the problems with his kit design. I have almost no problem with Yasuo in general, but I would like to see him have less level 1-2 free lane control even if they buff his lvl3 power drop in exchange. I'd like to see it be a tad harder for him to comeback from behind similar to Riven. And I would like to see Windwall made less powerful than most support ultimates, in exchange for perhaps giving it some use in 1v1 melee fights.

Those are my major grievances. But overall I don't mind the champion and actually would love to be good at playing him.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 20, 20171 votes

And I would like to see Windwall made less powerful than most support ultimates, in exchange for perhaps giving it some use in 1v1 melee fights.

He was intended to be played as melee carry. If u remove this he won't even be able to be played mid. He already have enough for melee fight atm. Btw in most of my game, when yasuo is open nobody have any issue with his windwall. Because we don't use our spell mindlessly

I agree for his early tho.

SteelflameJun 20, 20177 votes

Most of the complaints about Yasuo stem from his bullshit "bonuses" that he gets that make it significantly harder for him to fuck up.

Windwall can absorb projectiles from any direction, even behind, even upon cast. This means a reactive windwall in any direction can eat a major skill, even if it was one where the Yasuo should have fucked up by casting it the wrong direction.
His ult, during tower dives. When Yasuo ults, no matter what his ult will ensure he's outside of the tower attack radius, EVEN if it puts him at an insane distance from the target he ults beyond what he should be at.

Both of these are extreme tilt inducers because Yasuo can fuck up hard and won't be punished for the fuckup in these cases.

Fixing both of these cases will at least stem the tide of some Yasuo complaints, as neither should be a thing.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 20, 20171 votes

Windwall can absorb projectiles from any direction, even behind, even upon cast. This means a reactive windwall in any direction can eat a major skill, even if it was one where the Yasuo should have fucked up by casting it the wrong direction.

No, its a reactive windwall and he f*ck up he'll be hit. If he wall in wrong direction but has enough time to walk for cover himself its totaly legit. There no reason to have a wall blocking just from one side.

But i totaly agree for his ult

IncognonymousJun 19, 20172 votes

I expect it to go about as well as Riot brand Reworks usually do.

Meaning, I suspect he'll be a mage support next.

rtbf221651412Jun 20, 20172 votes

Most of the problems stem from his wind wall accessibility, duration, what it does, and its hitbox.

chipndip1Jun 20, 20173 votes

And any other skirmisher doesn't have annoying defensive mechanics? Cleanses, parries, AA dodges, full on not dying for X amount of time?

rtbf221651412Jun 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And any other skirmisher doesn't have annoying defensive mechanics? Cleanses, parries, AA dodges, full on not dying for X amount of time?

Yes because clearly everyone's dodge lasts longer than his shield and has no counter play whatsoever like putting a Soraka E where Fizz lands.

AhristocatsJun 20, 20172 votes

other's dodge do not have 26 sec cd and they can build cdr without losing power budget

rtbf221651412Jun 20, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Egh6hPig,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-20T00:57:09.946+0000)

other's dodge do not have 26 sec cd and they can build cdr without losing power budget

Let me know when your dodge protects not only you, but also your team...

When it doesn't block everything Ashe does.

When it's hitbox is fucked up (Literally projectiles can vanish before it hits the wall and Yasuo can just stand in front of it without anything hitting him.)

When ADC's are not considered carries.

When Yasuo was a support tank or just support.

When the wall doesn't act like basically an ult.

And when AD items do not have cdr.

AhristocatsJun 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Let me know when your dodge protects not only you, but also your team...

i will because yasuo W: does not heal him does not cleanse cc does not block melee AA is mostly strong against a heavy backline AKA ranged champions useless against melee and frontline has a long cd forces yasuo to stay at the same spot

let me know when you understand this

{quoted}

When Yasuo was a support tank or just support.

you do not know how carries work in a moba, that's certain

rtbf221651412Jun 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Egh6hPig,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-20T01:02:37.688+0000)

Insert passive aggressive not logical argument here.

You clearly are special so let me let you in on a little secret.

Learn to read.

Last time I checked, everything that you listed isn't messed up in hitboxes.

AhristocatsJun 20, 20172 votes

i didn't talk about hitboxes it might needs to be fixed, but the reason i didn't talk about it is because i don't try to cast spells when yasuo uses windwall

{quoted}

Learn to read.

that's not in your favor considering that you're not understanding anything OR you're understanding but refusing to confront the argument?

If windwall is so broken how comes yasuo is never being picked in pro? it has no counterplay right? and is broken?

no, it's just you ignoring its weaknesses what else do you want as an answer?

YumaS2AstralJun 20, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Egh6hPig,comment-id=00070000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-20T01:14:58.184+0000)

If windwall is so broken how comes yasuo is never being picked in pro? it has no counterplay right? and is broken?

Just to say, an ability can be broken but the champion itself may not be. Malzahar's passive for example.

chipndip1Jun 20, 20171 votes

So why is it worth bitching about if the overall product is still weak?

Also, Malz WAS picked in pro...for a long ass time until Riot gutted and worked on him again.

Nik NikersonJun 20, 20172 votes

It's not that windwall is broken. It's just anti-fun against a large number of characters. There are certainly ways to play against it and win, it just leaves a bad taste in people's mouths.

Whether or not it's true, it feels like it just doesn't require that much skill. I'm not saying that there isn't skill required to maximize it's effectiveness, but it doesn't feel like it's that hard to use. When Fizz dodges an ability with his troll pole, it feels like he made a good play. When Fiora parries, it doesn't feel that bad because she has a very small window to use it effectively, and she basically has to time it out properly. Again it feels like they made a good play. It also give a bigger window for those characters to screw it up. Windwall just feels like there isn't really an expression of skill in using it. It's one of the few that you can use reactively, but also if you pre-emptively throw out there, you're generally not punished super hard, because it's still shutting down the potential for any ranged attacks of abilities to be used. All are frustrating, but it's a different level of frustration when you feel like your opponent doesn't even have to work to grief you.

Obviously, it's not broken. It clearly has weaknesses that can be played around. And in many match ups, it's basically a dead ability. But It just leads to really frustrating moments when you're playing a very large number of champions, and people aren't very good at expression that frustration without going "It's OP!"

chipndip1Jun 20, 20171 votes

Since you wanted me to reply to this for some reason.

I mean, Fiora's ult heals her whole team for whatever reason. Team utility on a skirmisher kit isn't entirely unheard of or taboo.
She's a marks-woman...this is entirely within the realm of reason.
Is the hitbox Windwall's fault as a concept or Riot's fault as programmers?
What do marksmen have to do with melee carries, Yasuo, or this conversation...or even this thread?
The fuck is this about Yasuo being a support?
There's plenty of walls that are made without being ults. Braum's, Anivia's, Yorick's. They have different ups and downs to them, but they're still walls.
Yasuo doesn't build AD items with CDR.

rtbf221651412Jun 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Since you wanted me to reply to this for some reason.

I mean, Fiora's ult heals her whole team for whatever reason. Team utility on a skirmisher kit isn't entirely unheard of or taboo.

She's a marks-woman...this is entirely within the realm of reason.

Is the hitbox Windwall's fault as a concept or Riot's fault as programmers?

What do marksmen have to do with melee carries, Yasuo, or this conversation...or even this thread?

The fuck is this about Yasuo being a support?

There's plenty of walls that are made without being ults. Braum's, Anivia's, Yorick's. They have different ups and downs to them, but they're still walls.

Yasuo doesn't build AD items with CDR.

"Fiora ult"

It's an ult. Slow on the topic much?

Yasuo doesn't have access to CDR items? You are telling me that he gets punished hard for building a CDR item that is in favor of helping his matchup?

lul

NipsahoyJun 20, 20177 votes

{quoted}

And any other skirmisher doesn't have annoying defensive mechanics? Cleanses, parries, AA dodges, full on not dying for X amount of time?

Comparing wind wall to parry is completely moronic.

chipndip1Jun 20, 20171 votes

One blocks a flurry of projectiles.

One blocks ANYTHING but for one person.

Seems fair to me.

HeeroTXJun 20, 20172 votes

One lasts for 4 seconds and has an incredibly large amount of utility

The other lasts 0.75 seconds and is only good for protecting the champ who uses it.

chipndip1Jun 20, 20171 votes

One lasts for 4 seconds, protecting a team.

One lasts for almost one, protecting one person and soft/hard cc'ing enemies back depending on if she took hard cc in that time frame.

Still fair to me.

rtbf221651412Jun 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

One lasts for 4 seconds, protecting a team.

One lasts for almost one, protecting one person and soft/hard cc'ing enemies back depending on if she took hard cc in that time frame.

Still fair to me.

I heard you avoided typing back to me about the same conversation because you lost the debate in one sentence.

chipndip1Jun 20, 20171 votes

What? Even after searching different instances of your name in this thread...what? Someone else already took up talking to you. I was hoping he made it clear that there's different advantages and disadvantages to the types of defensive abilities that different skirmishers have.

rtbf221651412Jun 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What? Even after searching different instances of your name in this thread...what? Someone else already took up talking to you. I was hoping he made it clear that there's different advantages and disadvantages to the types of defensive abilities that different skirmishers have.

You made a comment that was so bad that if you took at as sarcasm as first then realized it wasn't sarcasm, there is a problem.

{quoted}

One lasts for 4 seconds, protecting a team.

One lasts for almost one, protecting one person and soft/hard cc'ing enemies back depending on if she took hard cc in that time frame.

Still fair to me.

This gives everyone cancer if not taken sarcastically.

chipndip1Jun 21, 20171 votes

You know, it gets to a point where we can't REALLY just be perfectly fine with some low elo Bronzie talking like he/she's big shit to everyone else in a conversation. I peeped how you were talking to others in the thread, too. The hell died and made you honorary not shit at this game to act all high and mighty?

Not to mention you just dismiss everyone as "wrong" and "ridiculous" without bringing up an actual valid point of your own. Comparing the defensive abilities of two skirmishers, each with positives and negatives to thrive in different situations? WOW THAT'S CANCER IF IT'S SERIOUS! What type of argument is that? No why, no how, just blatantly tossing out insults like some pre-teen edge lord. You're actually a piece of work.

rtbf221651412Jun 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You know, it gets to a point where we can't REALLY just be perfectly fine with some low elo Bronzie talking like he/she's big shit to everyone else in a conversation. I peeped how you were talking to others in the thread, too. The hell died and made you honorary not shit at this game to act all high and mighty?

Not to mention you just dismiss everyone as "wrong" and "ridiculous" without bringing up an actual valid point of your own. Comparing the defensive abilities of two skirmishers, each with positives and negatives to thrive in different situations? WOW THAT'S CANCER IF IT'S SERIOUS! What type of argument is that? No why, no how, just blatantly tossing out insults like some pre-teen edge lord. You're actually a piece of work.

I'm waiting for your comments to actually mean something and not ignore common word usage online.

Last time I checked, I never said HeeroTX. You made a public thread. Deal with the consequences of people disagreeing and you shitting on them or get out.

chipndip1Jun 21, 20171 votes

The fuck is HeeroTX!?
THIS IS MY THREAD. You literally waltzed into MY thread, started talking like some high and mighty wanna-be to people in it, and then told the OP to get out of his own thread. To boot, you STILL haven't defended anything about your criticisms against what I said comparing Yasuo's Windwall to Fiora's Riposte outside of random insults.

You probably have some sort of mental deficit. Consider this conversation over. It's the last time I take a bronze player seriously. I'll make doubly sure to use my "Diamond: No Back Talk" card from here on out.

HeeroTXJun 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

One lasts for 4 seconds, protecting a team.

(... and objectives)

LauchmelderJun 20, 20172 votes

They do have annoying parts in their kit, but they actually have cooldowns on those parts.

chipndip1Jun 20, 20171 votes

Yasuo's W has a huge cd, and his passive's cd is dependent on him moving around. To boot, Yasuo himself doesn't build cdr because some of his moves aren't affected by cdr.

This is the same old back and forth that I don't want to do with every individual hate-blinded person. There's totally logical justification as to why each part of his kit is the way it is, but we're gonna just skirt around it "because Yasuo". It's so pathetic.

LauchmelderJun 20, 20172 votes

His passive refreshes on ult and is gated by his movement.

And I wasn't even talking about his W. I'm talking about his Q and E that have no cooldown with his E actually being the annoying part of his kit.

chipndip1Jun 20, 20171 votes

Keywords: Annoying defensive mechanics.

LauchmelderJun 20, 20172 votes

Yes, but does he really need this defensive mechanic if he already got W and his passive to help him out?

SpecterVonBarenJun 20, 20171 votes

So his windwall in its entirety.

rtbf221651412Jun 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So his windwall in its entirety.

Learn 2 read. As I said. kthxbai.

Fixing hitbox isn't his windwall entirely.

SpecterVonBarenJun 20, 20171 votes

Saying that the problems are, "accessibility, duration, what it does, and its hitbox." is the entirety of the ability, you didn't just say, "the hitbox".

rtbf221651412Jun 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Saying that the problems are, "accessibility, duration, what it does, and its hitbox." is the entirety of the ability, you didn't just say, "the hitbox".

The combination is the problem.

I don't know what is so hard to understand,

The wall itself isn't the problem. It's the fact it has too much in it for something that isn't an ult.

I can put Soraka's W on shorter CDR, make it not damage her, decrease the mana cost, have it heal an extra amount overtime for an entire minute, and make it give attack boosting. Does that mean the W is the problem? Or does it need fixing/tuning up?

SpecterVonBarenJun 21, 20171 votes

If one of your complaints is "what it does" that's EVERYTHING.

rtbf221651412Jun 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If one of your complaints is "what it does" that's EVERYTHING.

And you always ignore the fact I am comparing it to an ult and saying it is overloaded basically. Hush if you can't read.

HeeroTXJun 20, 20173 votes

{quoted}

So his windwall in its entirety.

Even if other people say no, I'll say yes. :)

Winters DawnJun 20, 20172 votes

Personally I don't think yas is strong in power its his stupid mobility that makes him unbelievably anoyying

hhaavviikkJun 20, 20172 votes

considering their reworks as of late yasuo might just be deleted and replaced by a new champion galio style

ShablagooJun 20, 20172 votes

Why do ppl ignore that he is like one of the easiest champions to gank because he always pushes in with his e. Whenever I play Jg and I have yas i dont gank till he loses his lane(always fking losing) because thats when the lane is actually gankable.

AeróJun 20, 20172 votes

What if?!?!!? Hear me out. What if they made it so you can hit the windwall to destroy it earlier. O.o !?!?!?!

chipndip1Jun 20, 20171 votes

They'd compensation buff him and you'd perma-ban him because of the compensation buff?

LauchmelderJun 20, 20172 votes

Unlike the Yasuo defenders who constantly twist the words it's not him being OP, it's him being annoying. Making him less annoying will get him OFF permaban status, not back on.

AeróJun 21, 20171 votes

Its about him being annoying af to deal with because if you fuckup just a little bit he goes off. But i think he will always be permananned because of the stigma bronzies put on him. Maybe plat/dia+ he will not be banned as much

LauchmelderJun 21, 20171 votes

I mean, he's annoying to lane against at best. I can easily beat him with Viktor or Orianna, but do I really have to play every second game I play against him (and that's literally how often I would have to do it in my elo based on experience)?

Being annoying in a game once is ok, twice? Sure thing, but 50% of all of my games is way too much.