The real problem with "unusual playstyles"

Finn Teh Human·Mar 28, 2017·27 votes·1,672 views

The problem is not that it's different. It's not that it isn't meta. It's that it's now becoming an excuse for someone who was autofilled support. I don't care if they're not actually trolling. It's not fair that now I'm fully dependent on that person knowing exactly what they're doing and actually making it work. (And the funny thing is, they lost about 70% of games they did that in...) IMO it's just as bad as someone trolling because they're forcing people to play solo in a 2v1 lane.

48 Comments

Milla JovovichMar 28, 201716 votes

I like it how everyone defended Nunu "support" but those same people would not play in a 1v2 lane

Finn Teh HumanMar 28, 20175 votes

Exactly lmao

MarshbouyMar 29, 20172 votes

Hell most of those people would probably get angry if a guy went 0/3 in lane let alone 0/9

GULAG 4 UMar 29, 20171 votes

Hypocrisy on the boards isn't something new, lol.

IcyPepperMar 29, 20172 votes

but those same people would not play in a 1v2 lane

but how do you know tho

Milla JovovichMar 29, 20171 votes

Would you play 1v2 ?

5000000000000000Mar 29, 20174 votes

Would anyone want to play 1v2 tbh

Milla JovovichMar 29, 20176 votes

There are some twisted minds out there

Papa AndreiMar 29, 20176 votes

raises hand

Milla JovovichMar 29, 20178 votes

Thresh Draven :"Ah,we were expecting you"

Ariel the CruelMar 29, 20173 votes

Welcome to Twisted Treeline. Rotating support is just as common as jungling. So 2v1's are just something you accept.

. . . Until riot finishes Dominioning it.

5000000000000000Mar 29, 20171 votes

I've actually only saw one rotating support in my games (in like 30~40 games?), and that was in a premade. The comp was Nasus/Veigar/Soraka, which makes me believe they wanted to stall out for their late game, with Soraka helping to sustain them.

Are rotating supports more common in higher elo?

Ariel the CruelMar 29, 20171 votes

Elo is kind of hard to judge since I only play normals (and screw around still). (>_>)

That said. It's probably about 50/50 when I group (duo/trio-queue), and about 60/40 when I solo (in favor of jungle). TT games are generally shorter (though the snowballing on SR us quickly catching up), so it's just a question of preferred strategy. Roam: try to force down early turret(s) and gain map prescience; jungle: exploit the third revenue stream for greater overall team strength.

At least, that's my experience.

I'd defiantly label the Susan/Veiger picks as odd-balls though.

5000000000000000Mar 29, 20171 votes

Yeah, I think they didn't understand how snowbally the map was. We steamrolled them before they hit late game. And understanding the reasoning behind roaming support, Soraka support is pretty bad too.

SanctimoniousMar 29, 20172 votes

Lots do. We call those psychopaths top laners. :^)

IcyPepperMar 29, 20171 votes

Possibly, it entirely depends on several match-ups. Just as how I view metabreaking, doing a 1v2 to accomodate a metabreaker isn't something I can solidly answer with a "yes" or "no" on.

If I were playing Jinx versus a Graves and Leona? I would cry tears and beg the metabreaker to hold my hand a little.

If I were Caitlyn against an Ashe and Soraka? I'd be a bit more comfortable.

Granted, I'm not an ADC main so I'd probably get my ass kicked regardless, but since I play only normals and not ranked I'd enter the game knowing everyone else would be carrying and let the metabreaker try out their strategy. Hell, I might adjust my pick and pick something a lot more safer than an ADC anyway, especially if top lane decides to pick an ADC (or Graves jungle, whenever that thing is meta at the time). Azir, if I practiced him with this in mind, might be a solid safe pick. Maybe ZIggs? Maybe I could be a dick and learn Brand, but I'm not sure he's "safe" in a 1v2.

I'd give it a chance. If I found that I absolutely cannot 1v2 in any circumstance, I'd just cut my losses and admit it to the person (and on a meta level, you and others). So, uh, yeah. There's my answer? I think it's a fair one that's not too black and white.

hhaavviikkMar 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I like it how everyone defended Nunu "support" but those same people would not play in a 1v2 lane

I totally would, got used to it as back in 2009/2010 the ''adc's support'' was the teams support so you had to go 1 vs 2 plenty of times

GULAG 4 UMar 28, 20174 votes

There's a difference between playing nunu support in the enemy jungle with KDA's of an Inter and me, who actually bothers trying on kha'zix support, who builds sightstone, who has the KDA of a normal kha'zix.

Only Play DariusMar 29, 20174 votes

There's a difference between someone queueing for support every game and leaving you to 1v2 while they "counterjungle" and someone who was autofilled and at least stays in lane with you while they play Riven support.

FegoneMar 29, 20173 votes

I 100% agree. Yesterday I had a Sona in bot lane, supporting a Vayne. Vayne gave them first blood, which made Sona tilt. Sona decided to roam and go jungle, take cs from mid and top, to "support other lanes". When we asked her not to troll and to please go back to lane, she said: That's just an alternative playstyle, and Riot said this is not punishable, so I can do whatever I want.

needless to say we lost that game.

ChargeItDownMidMar 28, 20172 votes

[deleted]

CatastropMar 28, 20171 votes

That would be good idea if this game wasn't prone to W/L streaks. Really, I could see how it could suck for someone to get banned just because they had the misfortune of going on a Losing streak.

5000000000000000Mar 28, 20174 votes

What counts as meta champion, though? http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Middle Ryze mid is 39% WR in mid lane. Fiddlesticks has 51% WR in mid.

If you picked Mordekaiser mid with 45% WR, would that be fine? What if you picked Ahri but at 35% WR?

ChargeItDownMidMar 28, 20171 votes

[deleted]

5000000000000000Mar 28, 20172 votes

But is Ryze meta midlaner? How do we define "meta?"

ChargeItDownMidMar 29, 20171 votes

[deleted]

5000000000000000Mar 29, 20172 votes

So are we simply going by pick rate? If enough people start picking, I don't know, Janna mid, and have 10% win rate, is that a meta pick?

My point is that what's "meta" is really not a good indicator of what should be allowed in game.

ChargeItDownMidMar 29, 20171 votes

[deleted]

5000000000000000Mar 29, 20171 votes

How about based on whether it's griefing, like we do now? Are they actually trying to win or are they basically trolling but pretending not to? How is gameplay experience of everyone involved affected? Things like that.

Also I said 10% win rate, not pick rate, for hypothetical Janna mid. People pick Ryze with 39% win rate with 1.91%, so it doesn't seem like people pick the strongest champions.

ChargeItDownMidMar 29, 20171 votes

[deleted]

5000000000000000Mar 29, 20171 votes

People who think Nunu support wasn't griefing is the people who didn't see him play, and assumed what he said on the boards is true. I know because I was like that too. If you don't even come to lane just to mess a little bit with the enemy jungler, that's clearly not working.

So are you rather proposing that the win rate of high skill cap champions should be used instead? That's definitely less vague, although I still have some reservations about using win rate as the standard. There are loss streaks, and in most cases just one person is not going to be enough sample size to determine whether the strategy is actually viable.

SanctimoniousMar 29, 20171 votes

I'd define "Meta" as the most successful champions in a certain role. Basically, it shifts based on Elo because effective picks change based on skill. In other words, Ryze may not be meta in bronze, but can be picked / banned in diamond. He gave a pretty trash definition, and it's a pretty bad argument.

IMO off the wall picks should be allowed, even at the expense of a dependant role, if they communicate well. Its simply a pain to regulate this.

Troll for TrumpMar 29, 20171 votes

Hey, Darius support has been working for 3 seasons now, and I ain't stoppin' :]

Finn Teh HumanMar 29, 20171 votes

I'm not against that, but "supports" who leave lane I am.

Troll for TrumpMar 29, 20172 votes

You mean roaming?

I get that if you roam 24/7 it's bad, but some ADCs are just too needy.

RookPusherMar 29, 20171 votes

Roaming on support to get mid fed is a pretty good idea. Esp. if you're a utility support where you're basically going to give mid the kill

Chembaron YamadaMar 29, 20172 votes

Bard chimes sadly.

Only Play DariusMar 29, 20171 votes

Should I be building damage or tank? Whenever I build tank I get ignored and when I build damage I get poked out, and don't have the budget to build both as usual

Troll for TrumpMar 29, 20173 votes

Build whatever would be the best for dealing with a 2 person lane.

I usually like taking ghost/flash still, to allow me to get as close to the squishy target (usually ADC) without being peeled off.

If you absolutely have to, grab exhaust.

Screw sightstone. They'll tell you to build it, ignore them. Your budget's small, as you said, you don't have enough money to get it. Grab targon's, 3 hp pots, and rush black cleaver, as that lets you basically do true dmg to the squishy, counter the armor from the support, and give you some hp to tank both of them.

After cleaver, if your team needs more tankiness, build accordingly.

If they don't need you to peel or you're super ahead, build dmg.

Youmuus isn't a bad buy.

If you are going dmg, get cleaver->dmg item->tank item->tank item -> dmg item

Boots are built somewhere between items 1 and 3.

You have to play much more differently than top; you're playing in a lane with 4 ppl.

That's probably the hardest part.

Some lanes will just be unwinnable.

Also, Lulu is absolute hell to deal with.

Naomi CoffeeGoatMar 29, 20173 votes

Doesn't Darius function with a black cleaver into full tank?

Laxfan52Mar 29, 20171 votes

i just had a xin zhao support becuase he wanted to play naut but the other team picked it. He and the adc were both 0 and 6 by 10 minutes

PuttybloMar 29, 20171 votes

You ever wonder if people are just bored of LoL because it really is the same crap. I mean, most people in D3+ pre' much just troll because going any higher is absolutely pointless.

BIAKabooseMar 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=gosus girIfriend,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EgebA3Ld,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-28T20:13:07.531+0000)

The problem is not that it's different. It's not that it isn't meta. It's that it's now becoming an excuse for someone who was autofilled support.

Looks at my selection of support/fill "Welp, I guess me playing Skarner this game is just an excuse."

Jokes aside, supporting can kind of suck from time to time, it's nice to mix things up and say "screw it, I'm doing something random this game and I don't really care what people think of it" I've played Syndra, got Veigar to Mastery 5 almost purely playing him support even in ARAMs, Skarner, Urgot, Morde (That one admittedly was doomed to fail, I'm a trash Morde). Funny thing is that most of them are somewhat common support picks for me now. Sure people who get autofilled will look for any excuse to not help the team properly, but honestly a good bit of it is just a lot of the top tier supports being kind of boring.

Edit; When I say "Screw it" though, I do at least give fair warning in champ select and I don't do the experiments themselves in ranked because, well, I don't really play ranked much, normal draft is pretty much the same thing but with less stress.

Finn Teh HumanMar 29, 20171 votes

Using different champions, though sometimes can be a bad idea vs certain comps, doesn't just straight up put your team/your fellow laner at a huge disadvantage.

BIAKabooseMar 29, 20171 votes

That's fair, if I'm going roam Heavy I go Smite Ivern Support, instead of warding River you just get to freely take Scuttles whenever it's up and you counter jungle camps in less than 12 seconds between leaving and getting back lol it's really good with Caitlyn too because for some reason she can still place a trap under your non-moving foot that is on the ground... Because logic.

JedenVojakMar 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=gosus girIfriend,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EgebA3Ld,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-28T20:13:07.531+0000)

IMO it's just as bad as someone trolling because they're forcing people to play solo in a 2v1 lane.

There's no such thing as a 2v1 lane. Lanes are just lanes - the fact that the bottom lane happens to be most often played 2v1 is arbitrary. In any case, so long as the "support" in question is legitimately trying to win the game, they are not trolling even if you feel personally inconvenienced by that.

If you're tired of crappy supports, play support yourself.

Finn Teh HumanMar 30, 20171 votes

This is our problem people lmao. You wouldn't say that if you had to play 2v1. And yes, when there are two enemies botlane or 2 allies and 1 enemy/ally botlane then it makes it 2v1.

JedenVojakApr 2, 20171 votes

2v1 is fun too - if you win you feel like a badass.