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@CertainlyT: For the love of all that is purple, make Kalista's innate jump scale cleanly with MS

Z Statistic··52 votes·3,588 views

She jumps X units at 300 MS. If she has 400 MS, she jumps 4/3*X units. If she has 556 MS, she jumps 556/300 units. If she has 230 MS, she jumps 230/300 MS. As it stands now, the following is true:

  1. There is no point to getting furor on Kalista.
  2. There is no point in slowing Kalista; as it stands now, she just jumps away if you slow her. Yeah, she can't walk very quickly, but she can just jump away very easily.
  3. There is no point in buying +%MS on her or using MS quints

If units traveled is dependent on the current movespeed of kalista, then suddenly the following happens:

  1. You can be mechanically better with Kalista by being able to jump at the very start of the furor buff instead of near the middle in order to maximize distance
  2. Slows actually work on her mid and late game
  3. Build %MS on her gives some benefit
  4. There is now a reason to buy something else besides zerker greaves i.e. Swiftness on a Marksman. Zerker gives more raw dps, Swiftness gives more kiting potential. Both of them are fairly slight compared to the other
  5. Crazy shit going on when you use Lulu! W + Shurelya's + Karma haste on Kalista.

19 Comments

JevelFaithful15 votes

I have to admit I like the idea. If Only for slows.

OJ1913 votes

I'm way too tired to comprehend the math and explanation properly, so I'm just going to put my opinion on her passive here. IMO her passive should move her the amount of distance she could have walked in that amount of time with her current movespeed before slows. So it remains anti-slow and can still hop tiny ledges, but if you could keep up with any other champion at the same movespeed, you can keep up with a kalista.

Z Statistic7 votes

I'm way too tired to comprehend the math and explanation properly, so I'm just going to put my opinion on her passive here. IMO her passive should move her the amount of distance she could have walked in that amount of time with her current movespeed before slows. So it remains anti-slow and can still hop tiny ledges, but if you could keep up with any other champion at the same movespeed, you can keep up with a kalista.

So what you're saying is that her jump distance should be increased by boots, haste buffs, and %MS items, not decreased by slows, but decreased by the amount of Attack Speed she has? Because that's what AS does. It first decreases the cooldown of a character's windup and then reduces the cast time of the windup. Decreasing the cast time of the windup means that she can move less distance per windup, which then means she jumps less distance per jump.

That sounds ridiculously unintuitive.

OJ1914 votes

I'm way too tired to comprehend the math and explanation properly, so I'm just going to put my opinion on her passive here. IMO her passive should move her the amount of distance she could have walked in that amount of time with her current movespeed before slows. So it remains anti-slow and can still hop tiny ledges, but if you could keep up with any other champion at the same movespeed, you can keep up with a kalista.

So what you're saying is that her jump distance should be increased by boots, haste buffs, and %MS items, not decreased by slows, but decreased by the amount of Attack Speed she has? Because that's what AS does. It first decreases the cooldown of a character's windup and then reduces the cast time of the windup. Decreasing the cast time of the windup means that she can move less distance per windup, which then means she jumps less distance per jump.

That sounds ridiculously unintuitive.

Eh it's not unintuitive in usage only in description

basically, it's just the exact same as animation cancelling and walking away except instead of animation cancelling and walking away, you dash the same distance - which can go over ledges and ignores slows, because it's a dash.

sleep time now peace all

Talamare3 votes

I'm way too tired to comprehend the math and explanation properly, so I'm just going to put my opinion on her passive here. IMO her passive should move her the amount of distance she could have walked in that amount of time with her current movespeed before slows. So it remains anti-slow and can still hop tiny ledges, but if you could keep up with any other champion at the same movespeed, you can keep up with a kalista.

Basically a % is derived that compares her current movement speed and her base

At no movement speed increases she jumps a certain distance, example 100 If she is slowed by 50%, she will be reduced to 50 jump range while if she stacks movement speed she can potentially double her movement distance

This form of scaling is a really good option since it is dependent on the original divisor value of her base movement speed affecting a flat value

So if she had 900 movespeed, or 3x her base movement speed, her jump distance would be 3x further but it would not be 900~ It would likely only be like ~300, so you can never really super abuse it by stacking all the MS possible At the same time she would be heavily affected by slows, in a basically 1:1 ratio

Well at least with the numbers the OP provided This math can easily be broken by altering a few of the numbers to make her even more stupid than before

Tuss1 votes

This sounds like a good idea.

LeeDark2 votes

Your opinion became meaningless when you said you weren't going to bother even comprehending the math, so that's where I stopped reading.

The5lacker3 votes

How about we make her jump range...her MS?

Gasp

A Slime Appears1 votes

So...more than half her attack range? Don't think that would be a little bit broken?

The5lacker1 votes

Considering it's already roughly 400-450, no.

Kingsgrave1 votes

zephyr rush op

Ryan the Skitzo1 votes

Yes, yes to everything. As of now boots are a must on her even late game when most would trade for zephyr.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

there should still be a cap on it. or she picks up ghost and basically gets to flash after every auto attack during the duration.

riot has really fucked up lately, when it comes to counterplay on some of the champions. azirs kit should have been designed around destructible units. kallistas passive should be less effective while shes slowed, and disabled while shes silenced.

BetaDude401 votes

That is, if Rito doesn't immediately slap a 99% slow onto any silence in the game they don't like.

kDrakari1 votes

I like the "can theoretically catch up to her by using slows" part, I think having a champion that is basically 100% immune to slows is pretty toxic to the game. It means that her power against some champions (Skarner comes to mind, though he's pretty well in need of some buffs to begin with) that rely on slows to get into or stay in range to do their work simply have no capability to affect even a moderately skilled Kalista, so she'd either have to be so weak that any OTHER champion could wreck her, (thus letting those slow-reliant champs have maybe a little chance) or she'll simply shut out a significant part of the champion pool just from the threat of her being picked. Scaling with move speed gives her both an interesting option to build for super speedy repositioning with AS + MS stacking (though MS stacking is pretty difficult so it may not be the most effective) or at least some possibilities for slightly different build paths (Valid Youmuu's rush hype! Also maybe Zephyr somewhere other than late-game boots replacement and a possible added incentive for Mercurial Scimitar to make a nice safe carry with lower damage but great repositioning) and allows for slow-reliant champions to have a chance (Nasus would counter her hard... though he's one of the few that already has a chance since he also reduces AS).

But on the other hand, I have a hard time believing Riot didn't try this in internal testing. Any comments from the Reds on the topic?

Viro Melchior1 votes

I agree with this, but use a bell curve (to prevent abuse). If her current jump is 150 distance, then base that around 350 move speed (so she gets a small buff once she gets boots). All these values can be simply swapped with the current value.

Move speed // Distance jumped 000 // 20.3 050 // 30.3 100 // 42.4 150 // 56.8 200 // 74.2 250 // 95 300 // 120 350 // 150 400 // 180 450 // 205 500 // 227.8 550 // 243.2 600 // 257.7 650 // 269.7 700 // 279.8 750 // 288.1 800 // 295.1

So at 0 speed, Kallista still hops 13% her current distance (or the distance she is balanced to at 350 speed). At speed 200 (about a 50% slow, with boots), she hops 50% the distance of current, and 41% of her pre-slow speed (400). Speed 350 is the "balanced" level. Speed 450 (boots 2 plus a single minor speed boost) lets her leap 33% further than currently. Going from speed 500 to 800 (which takes a massive amount of effort) yields a further 29% increase in range.

If she's jumping too far with these numbers, just trim them all by a bit to get her to the "ideal" spot. But she'll at least be vulnerable to slows - enough that a good slow can catch her.

Right now, the only slow in the game that can catch her is Nasus' slow (because it also hits movement speed).

Z Statistic1 votes

The jump distance is approximately Quickdraw distance. The distance itself really isn't the problem as her AS. It really makes the effective movement speed scale out of control.

Viro Melchior1 votes

2.5 AS is only 4x as good as lvl 1 (.6 - .7).

Thus, simply making her jump distance be impacted by slows does provide a solution. Probably not the optimal one, but it'd at least help.

LordVeral1 votes

i don't know exactly how it works, but her passive specifically states "on the TIER of the boots" not "how much movement speed" so it wont matter if you have swiftness or zerks..she'll jump just as far either way

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