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Riot have you tried making players list their favorite to least favorite position instead of pick 2?

Irelia Bot··27 votes·2,905 views

TL;DR Bring back the players who were alright with supporting sometimes.

Here is a song to listen to while reading. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7leQB_Oe_k

Yes there is a issue currently with a lack of supports compared to other positions. While diamond 1 and higher have classically had a longer waiting time it has drastically increased not just for them but for many other players as well.

Example of the list might be

  1. Top
  2. Support
  3. Mid 4)Jungle 5)Marksmen

This is the order for positions I had last season and yes the current systems has made me abandon support as my second choice and started putting Mid as my second choice just so I might have a real chance at getting Top more then once in a blue moon.

So why are we limited to only 2 positions? Why is it not a list of all positions with the highest rated being the most likely and the lowest rated being something that might happen one out of 100 games if that?

A lot of players actually are fine with supporting every 2 to 4 games but they do no want to support every game which is going to happen more then half the time if they put support as either their first or second option currently. This makes players refuse to put support as an option since it is constant undesired result which in turn results in a support shortage. This result is repeatable making it "scientific" if you so feel the need to call it that.

Has there been any consideration in widening the positions that players might get in a game but after getting a personally less desired position or a second/third most desired position that is unpopular among most players there is a increased likelyhood of getting the most desired position after that?

55 Comments

PDE5 Inhib9 votes

I just wish they had a check box system. "rito, I would like to play ADC, Support, or Mid."

Irelia Bot1 votes

issue is that will still cause a shortage of supports since many players do not want to support ever.

If there was 20% of the player base as support mains the current system would wrok fine but that is not the case.

There are however a good % of players who are fine with playing support when their main position is not an option but so long as you are likely to be forced into support just because you select it the issue will remain.

PDE5 Inhib5 votes

Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't. But, it would allow players to actually "fill". Right now, there is no fill. It's either pick a lane you want to go to, or support.

The thing they should really do is just fucking remove this dynamicQ shit that nobody likes.

Mazariamonti1 votes

It would increase the pool of supports (if only slightly) while doing nothing to harm the system. Seasons 3-5 I was "mid pref, will support if needed", the problem was that while before I was passable/good at support in past seasons, it was never particularly fun. But not having fun was preferable to me over going jungle and losing by default because I'm so bad at it.

The point is is that there are a lot of people who are willing to go support, but few who are willing to go there every single game. If you increase the pool of positions every player is willing to play, you increase the amount of supports, and increase the possibility of getting something besides support when you list it as an option. Maybe it wouldn't work that way, but there is hardly any way this could make the situation worse. (Unless it causes Azir bugs or something, I guess)

High52 votes

The problem is that LoL is not rocket science, but the system caters to the lazy. It's not hard to learn all the roles, but too often, people would rather be selfish than wel rounded players.

I would happily choose fill if it were an equal chance to draw each of the roles. I won't add fill or support as secondary since you'll draw support 95% of the time.

I like support, but don't want to play it every game.

Lastly, having to choose only two roles, my jungling has fallen off dramatically, which is a detriment to everyone. At least with pick order precedence, I had to play it occasionally and keep up to date.

Mazariamonti1 votes

I agree, and I guess I should have added, I'm not a good support anymore. It was a top two (and for a time top) position, but I never enjoyed it. Now that I essentially have the option of 'wait and have fun' or 'never have fun', I choose 'wait and have fun' with some combination of mid and whatever. Now I'm a pretty horrible support, my warding habits are atrocious and I have an ingrained habit of taking kills I know I should not.

Whatever they can do to increase the pool of preferable positions I feel would help mitigate these problems, if only slightly, and that would still be an improvement.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

I won't add fill or support as secondary since you'll draw support 95% of the time.

You can play support any percent of the time that you want. All you have to do is queue up mid/support for a couple games, and if you get support too many times in a row that you don't want to play it anymore, then you can switch to mid/top.

Ta-dah, you can now play support 90% of the time, 1% of the time, or anywhere in between

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EfnGGW8o,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-04-15T03:11:56.312+0000)

There are however a good % of players who are fine with playing support when their main position is not an option but so long as you are likely to be forced into support just because you select it the issue will remain.

Their main position is not an option but they are still mad when that means they play support. Then they complain that their queue times are long when they switch to a high-demand off role so they don't end up supporting.

LightIsMyPath1 votes

Uhm. I'm not sure you got the problem here.

Gimpy894 votes

a lot of people that normally are support secondary wont pick support as their secondary because then they will never get their primary (which in turn makes the support issue worse)

SoiledBatwing1 votes

I think this is one of the biggest issues here. I don't mind filling, but I want variety. What if you could dictate how long you search for a role? e.g. primary, search for 3 minutes before looking for secondary.

OyddAWqJ5r4 votes

Orrrr let us just choose the role we want and only that role? I'd like to think people who are Diamond level Junglers should be able to be Diamond level Junglers and not Plat level Jungle-ADC hybrids.

The Lexer3 votes

This

Last 21 games (as either top-fill or mid-fill): -Support - 20 -ADC - 1 (and I was premade with somebody else who also went fill, and got support) -Jungle - 0 -Roles I put in my primary position - 0

LightIsMyPath2 votes

I honestly don't understand why you are getting downvoted. Restored state, I totally agree with you. I was thinking of trying to get some attention on the topic " occasional support players gone". To back me up I 'm playing" fill ", I 'm still uncertain of what number of games could be considered a valid proof.. I guess I 'll try to do 100 to make the exact %. For now I am at 30, and I 'm starting to hate my 2nd favorite role after 23 games in it ( in one of the other 7 ADC requested a swap for the matchup, I was supposed to be the support...)

Brorelia1 votes

{quoted}

I honestly don't understand why you are getting downvoted. Restored state, I totally agree with you. I was thinking of trying to get some attention on the topic " occasional support players gone". To back me up I 'm playing" fill ", I 'm still uncertain of what number of games could be considered a valid proof.. I guess I 'll try to do 100 to make the exact %. For now I am at 30, and I 'm starting to hate my 2nd favorite role after 23 games in it ( in one of the other 7 ADC requested a swap for the matchup, I was supposed to be the support...)

Sadly many bronze and silvers are greedy and will only pick Mid, marksmen or another position outside of support. They feel **entitled ** to be the "carry" even though they clearly have issues consistently carrying games or enabling their teammate to carry the game. They do not understand that support is able to amplify teammates and dampen enemies.

Irelia Bot1 votes

Harsh but has some real truth to it.

LightIsMyPath2 votes

I AM bronze right now( used to be silver last season).. When I see my support trying to act as a damage dealer, no utility items and no sightstone, I feel physical pain.Then if you tell something to them " stfu I am here because I couldn't stay 20 minutes in queue not to support you scrub?" " trolling? Looool I am bot no?" Meanwhile I am prevented from playing it seriously, pfff

High51 votes

Wish I could up upvote this 100x.

If Riot wants to enforce the roles, they should enforce the roles. I see this too often also. It weakens the game and makes it miserable for people who enjoy winning.

Most of us, myself included, are not smarter than the meta.

cloman1001 votes

i am bronze and was a support main last season with Supp > Mid > Adc > jg > top. Now i dont want to put support as one of my roles because i know i will get it 100% of the time. Riot should really up the support role somehow .

OhWanderer1 votes

that system would get to confusing. Besides, this system allows you to pick what you feel like playing instead of determining what u will play.

Irelia Bot1 votes

This system is just a more expanded version of the "pick 2" system.

It only seems complacated becasue I am giving the inner workings explanation but the idea of most desired and least desired poisition will still have a major effect on what you are likely to get.

Basically getting one of your top 3 positions over 90% of the time should be the goal. IUF one of your top 3 positions is a less desired positioncough support cough in popularity then it could easily go above 95%.

OhWanderer1 votes

no its not, your basically saying i want this then this this this or this, but then it has to sort through 5 (rollls) x 62million (players) = 310 million lanes preferences... that is not even the number of possible combinations that you could have, just the number of rolls it has to sort. This current system you redo each time you go into a game so u know it is something u will want to play and there are severely less steps and choices to sort through.

Irelia Bot1 votes

you seem to think a computer can not be programmed to make a system like this work.

OhWanderer1 votes

dude the fucking question is not "is it possible" the question is which one is more efficient and that is our current system. You are mistaking the fact that the que is not necessarily the problem its the other preseason changes to turrets and shit that is causing your games to feel unfair.

Irelia Bot1 votes

NO I am saying that I am alright with randomly having to support sometimes but I will not put support as a position if I am going to be force into support nearly every time.

OhWanderer1 votes

yes but what makes u think your system will be any better? You think people randomly having to support (even if they dont want to is going to go so much better than teh current system where they expect it to some degree if they choose said option (or fill)

Irelia Bot1 votes

It worked for 5 seasons so yes I do.

OhWanderer1 votes

LMAO NO IT DIDNT THAT IS WHY THEY CHANGED IT

Irelia Bot1 votes

If government "changed" the current system to take everything you have and give you extremely basic food rations would that be good?

Change does not mean good or for the better. Never assume it does.

OhWanderer1 votes

that is an invalid argument and a stupid analogy. lol kid stop before you embarrass yourself more lmao. it would be more like the grocery store going from a manned cash register to automated self checkout. You cant just take two random-ass things and compare them.

Irelia Bot1 votes

Calls me stupid but keeps bumping a thread which he disagrees with.

I'm just using you for the hell if it.

OhWanderer1 votes

lol looses and argument so he tries to make it look like he was trolling.

Irelia Bot1 votes

oh look

Another up vote

I could keep arguing with you but it would be as much of a waste of time as me arguing with Sanders supporters. No one has their mind changed.

LightIsMyPath1 votes

Except he didn' t loose the argument but ok lol. Old system was not" you are placed in a random role", it was all about pick order. In the system Irelia suggests you maybe will be forced to support once in a while to allow others supports to get their role sometimes, still I, picking support as second, will get it x times more then you ( no idea of the math, I would need stats about how many people plays each position, and how many of them would have support at least in the first 3). Besides, our current system is all but ideal , unless you are a support main or a support hater. In the first case, you get your main role in more then 90% of games, in the second you are ok with the role you have to put as preference, and your only downside is little more time in queue. Now take me: I main mid and second support. I pick my roles, I see my main role in 0,385 % of games ( this was the exact % when I sadly decided to completely quit the role). If I want a slight chance to get my role I literally can't play a role I like, in which ( compared accordingly to my low skill level oc ) I am good, in which I have tons of fun, and which some of my favorite champions are tied, champions for which I bought stuff too. If I put support as an option, the same speech can be done for my main role. I am unable to use half my content anyway on a regular base , and this is a clear spy something is wrong.

To all this add the fact that if I put my main and something else I still have the chance ( about 40ish % in my experience) to get a) a role in which I am bad, hate most of the champions, hate the general playstyle it is tied to, don't know most matchup, from which I have no idea of how to influence the game even if I do good " in my garden" , and in which overall I have not fun. B) A role in which I painfully suck for its mechanics and whose playstyle is boring for a high portion of the game, in which you are tied to another person, whose ability counts more then yours for several minutes... And often even more. C)I'd be honest, I might even like this one, with the map focus it requires, the major possibility of being actually followed if you shotcall exc.. But I feel to be REALLY good in it you have to main it, and I simply don't want it. And, it seems I'm going to receive flame in every game no matter what I do. Plus, there are relatively few champions I like for the role, meaning my pool is somewhat poor.

Now after you read my wall of text try to put yourself in my shoes.. If you hate support, you will have it on a very low % of games and I will happily grab for a good amount of times. If you happen to like one of the roles I listed, think that right now every time you don't get that role it might be because someone like me, that thinks what I do about it, ends up playing it almost half of the time. Wouldn't you please be disposed to play something like 1% of support and maybe get a 50-30% of that role you like and I hate , so I could happily grab my 30-40 % of games as support and reduce to 1% chance that unpleasant experience that right now I am forced to pass in at least 3/4 games out of 10, just to get a chance I will get my role in these other 7/6?

OhWanderer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EfnGGW8o,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-15T04:23:26.099+0000)

oh look

Another up vote

I could keep arguing with you but it would be as much of a waste of time as me arguing with Sanders supporters. No one has their mind changed.

"i lost the argument and now im out of snoty remarks so im just gonna tell you your wasting my time"

OhWanderer1 votes

{quoted}

Except he didn' t loose the argument but ok lol. Old system was not" you are placed in a random role", it was all about pick order. In the system Irelia suggests you maybe will be forced to support once in a while to allow others supports to get their role sometimes, still I, picking support as second, will get it x times more then you ( no idea of the math, I would need stats about how many people plays each position, and how many of them would have support at least in the first 3). Besides, our current system is all but ideal , unless you are a support main or a support hater. In the first case, you get your main role in more then 90% of games, in the second you are ok with the role you have to put as preference, and your only downside is little more time in queue. Now take me: I main mid and second support. I pick my roles, I see my main role in 0,385 % of games ( this was the exact % when I sadly decided to completely quit the role). If I want a slight chance to get my role I literally can't play a role I like, in which ( compared accordingly to my low skill level oc ) I am good, in which I have tons of fun, and which some of my favorite champions are tied, champions for which I bought stuff too. If I put support as an option, the same speech can be done for my main role. I am unable to use half my content anyway on a regular base , and this is a clear spy something is wrong.

To all this add the fact that if I put my main and something else I still have the chance ( about 40ish % in my experience) to get a) a role in which I am bad, hate most of the champions, hate the general playstyle it is tied to, don't know most matchup, from which I have no idea of how to influence the game even if I do good " in my garden" , and in which overall I have not fun. B) A role in which I painfully suck for its mechanics and whose playstyle is boring for a high portion of the game, in which you are tied to another person, whose ability counts more then yours for several minutes... And often even more. C)I'd be honest, I might even like this one, with the map focus it requires, the major possibility of being actually followed if you shotcall exc.. But I feel to be REALLY good in it you have to main it, and I simply don't want it. And, it seems I'm going to receive flame in every game no matter what I do. Plus, there are relatively few champions I like for the role, meaning my pool is somewhat poor.

Now after you read my wall of text try to put yourself in my shoes.. If you hate support, you will have it on a very low % of games and I will happily grab for a good amount of times. If you happen to like one of the roles I listed, think that right now every time you don't get that role it might be because someone like me, that thinks what I do about it, ends up playing it almost half of the time. Wouldn't you please be disposed to play something like 1% of support and maybe get a 50-30% of that role you like and I hate , so I could happily grab my 30-40 % of games as support and reduce to 1% chance that unpleasant experience that right now I am forced to pass in at least 3/4 games out of 10, just to get a chance I will get my role in these other 7/6?

if you cant condesnse what your point is into something less than an essay draft i am not reading that, and besides nothing you can say will change the fact that 2(rolls) x 62 million (players) is a lot simpler than 5(rolls) x 62 million (players), not to mention the algorithms needed to sort out everyones least to most favorite. This system is efficient and you get to pick your two top role u feel like playing atm ... or support. There is no reason to pick 5 role you feel like playing, and the old system caused a lot of tension which is why they threw it out the window.

Irelia Bot2 votes

I have still not see a valid counter argument from you.

OhWanderer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EfnGGW8o,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005,timestamp=2016-04-15T14:43:40.033+0000)

I have still not see a valid counter argument from you.

you still in preschool then? cuz im done arguing with a trolling 5 year old

LightIsMyPath1 votes

My point is I shouldn't be allowed my top 2 roles OR support because support IS my 2nd top role, I don't know if the system irelia suggests could be good or not but something needs to be done about the fact the system is done to allow us to play our 2 best roles and is not allowing this to 10 categories of players.

LightIsMyPath1 votes

My point is I shouldn't be allowed my top 2 roles OR support because support IS my 2nd top role, I don't know if the system irelia suggests could be good or not but something needs to be done about the fact the system is done to allow us to play our 2 best roles and is not allowing this to 10 categories of players.

Also, I spent time to write, it would be kind from you to spend a little to read.

LightIsMyPath1 votes

you get to pick your two top role u feel like playing atm

This statement alone is the flow of the current system. Because I am left out if support IS one of my top 2 roles.

So, my point is: something needs to be done to eliminate this problem that is leaving out of system's goal 10 categories of players.

I have no idea if what Irelia suggests could be the possible solution, but it would lead to a situation in which you, hating support, could maybe get it 1 or 2 games out of 100, while I could get it even 40 or so ( being my secondary ).. in all these games now I am getting a role that I hate and you like: you have increased queue time because I am stealing it, I have a miserable experience because I am prevented to choosing my best 2 roles without them becoming 1.

Also, I wrote much it's true, but I spent some time doing that, it would be kind from you to spent a little time too to read ^^

Dehitay1 votes

This system lives or dies based on whether people pre-emptively put support as their last pick based on the crapstorm that dynamic queue has already caused. If people are straight up honest, it would likely be vastly superior to the current system. There are all kinds of beautiful algorithms that could be made with honest data that would speed up queue times immensely. However, if everybody puts support as their last choice due to Riot's failure to this point, those algorithms are completely useless.

Irelia Bot1 votes

IF everyone puts support last then someone will always be force to be support.

The idea should be that if you are getting a lower personal choice of position one game you get one of your highest for the next few games to even it out.

Also if you have a less desired position as your second or third choice you will get your first choice more often for having that less popularaly demended position as soemthing you are saying you are up for doing. Basically rewarding the people who are up for supporting every third or forth game by givng them higher prioroty.

I tried to coem up with a math system one night when I was drunk so math my be off but here is the result. http://i.imgur.com/R5OC2WM.png

JUst ignore the bottom equation since I was not thinking streight on what that equation will actually do but the top 2 are a basic idea for how to make something liek this work out.

The .28next to mid, .24 next to marksmen etc. is overall popularity of the position since the chart does not explain that. IT is designed to have both less popular positions give higher points gains but getting your least desired position gives the highest increase overall.

The math is anything but final however it is intended to who a basic system of how it could become balanced out after a while.

KillerKell1 votes

With this System you could still get stuck with Choice 5, largely your weakest area and weakest Champion Pool.

The idea was to get people into Roles they actual like and can perform at to make it MORE Competitive.

Irelia Bot1 votes

The idea is to make position 4 and 5 only happen if literally no one puts them high on their list and to make it extremely rare for you to get your 4th or 5th option.

So if everyone has the list of Mid bot Top Jungle Support

The person with the highest hidden number used to decide this will get mid and the one with the lowest will get support. But in turn the person who plays mid this game gets the fewest points while the one getting their least desired position of support will get the most meaning they will likely have a position reversal for their next games or something to that effect.

Also there needs to be a reward for having a less popular position ranked higher in some way which will in turn make people with support as their second or third choice tend to get more games and their top preferred position more often.

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EfnGGW8o,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-15T00:50:57.674+0000)

So why are we limited to only 2 positions? Why is it not a list of all positions with the highest rated being the most likely and the lowest rated being something that might happen one out of 100 games if that?

My guess is that it was much easier to implement and they'd like to implement a more robust system eventually, but getting a workable 2-role queue out first was more useful so they can collect more data to see how to move forward with changes to the queue system.

Morticianjohn1 votes

I basically stopped playing draft but just using the numbers from my brother's ranked games (he always chooses jg primary fill secondary) he is getting support more than 80% of the time (over 100 games so not a really small sample size). This is a real issue. I have a feeling that he will stop choosing fill as many other players and will instead increase his wait times by choosing jg/top or some such. One fewer support to fill those games. The problem is getting worse and not better.

Honestly, they need to make support a more fun position. Why even have a role that no one wants to play when it's a game that is made for having fun make each role equally fun and the issue resolves itself.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

It's awfully nice for support mains, though. 100% of my games have been support, and that's exactly what I wanted. Absolutely zero conflict.

LightIsMyPath1 votes

This system is efficient and you get to pick your two top role u feel like playing atm ... or support.

This statement alone is the flow of the current system. Because I am left out if support IS one of my top 2 roles.

So, my point is: something needs to be done to eliminate this problem that is leaving out of system's goal 10 categories of players.

I have no idea if what Irelia suggests could be the possible solution, but it would lead to a situation in which you, hating support, could maybe get it 1 or 2 games out of 100, while I could get it even 40 or so ( being my secondary ).. in all these games now I am getting a role that I hate and you like: you have increased queue time because I am stealing it, I have a miserable experience because I am prevented to choosing my best 2 roles without them becoming 1.

Also, I wrote much it's true, but I spent some time doing that, it would be kind from you to spent a little time too to read ^^

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