Those Black Cleaver changes on the PBE.

InSingedWeTrust·Apr 8, 2015·3 votes·1,344 views

Are you trying to make Riven broken again? On top of a slew of other champions.

The Black Cleaver The Black Cleaver has received significant changes! Recipe: Phage + Kindlegem + 825 gold (3000 gold total) 400 HP 40 AD 20% CD Unique Passive - Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion Cleaves them, reducing their Armor by 5% for 6 seconds (stacks up to 6 times, up to 30%). Unique passive - Rage - "Dealing physical damage grants 20 movement speed for 2 seconds. Assists on Cleaved enemy champions or kills on any unit grant 80 movement speed for 4 seconds instead. This Movement Speed is halved for ranged champions (Unique Passives with the same name don't stack.)

10 Comments

Sailor MintApr 8, 20153 votes

Movement speed only applies to actual walking (funny how that works). So it doesn't help Riven all that much. Realistically, it has a worse build path and it's at best a sidegrade on her (less AD, more CDR).

magic poleApr 8, 20153 votes

seems like a little too much on 1 item considering the slew of premier stats on it. kind of like when SV had 20% cdr.

Idk I like when you have to make tough choices between items. for example, "ugh I need armor. should i get randuin's or FH? I REALLY need cdr though...well guess I'll be missing out on some health. (nervous smile) "

this new BC seems so strong that there would be no reason to not buy it on a melee AD. Ever.

Malix FarwinApr 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=magic pole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EfiE493U,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-04-08T02:59:02.303+0000)

seems like a little too much on 1 item considering the slew of premier stats on it. kind of like when SV had 20% cdr.

Idk I like when you have to make tough choices between items. for example, "ugh I need armor. should i get randuin's or FH? I REALLY need cdr though...well guess I'll be missing out on some health. (nervous smile) "

this new BC seems so strong that there would be no reason to not buy it on a melee AD. Ever.

its an AD item and you know how much riot loves those.

AHeroNamedHawkeApr 8, 20152 votes

Darius Darius Darius Darius SCURRY WEAKLINGS Darius Darius Darius Darius

NilokApr 8, 20151 votes

Urgot I hope they aren't all scurrying, I need some new legs.

LilxPaprikaApr 8, 20151 votes

I know a lot of us have dreamt up this item or one like it, thought of merging phage with cleaver, I know I have. I like where they're going with it. It seems a lot stronger. Seems like it has more stats on it for the cost. The flat armor pen is gone though so there's that. Assuming the HP and base AD changes cancel each other out. You're pretty much removing armor pen and giving it 10% more CDR and phage passive. Seems fair. I really like the ability to get phage elsewhere than triforce, that is for sure.

Will there be another item that will build out of brutalizer aside from ghostblade, in the works if this goes through? Or another flat armor pen item? How about something similar to wits end auto remove flat armor instead of %.

This could negatively impact ADCs though. I've had a few games where the adc needed more than . maybe armorpen marks will

MetikulusApr 8, 20151 votes

ADC will be so broken with this. If you have 200 armor, an ADC can ignore 109 of it with this and LW. At 300 armor, they ignore 163 armor. I assumed max stacks. Effectively killing all tanks once again.

Garlyle WildsApr 8, 20151 votes

That's... basically what Black Cleaver + Last Whisper does right now though. Like, really.

New Black Cleaver has an extra 5% shred at max stacks, and until then is straight up weaker due to missing 10 AD and the 10 flat armor pen. That flat armor pen is a lot more than you'd think, considering that even at 200 armor, when you're shredding an extra 10 armor and you'd expect it to now break even, the % penetration from Last Whisper is being applied after, not before.

I'm not convinced at all that an item that takes 6 hits to ramp up to full effectiveness and is going to be worse on a significant number of targets is going to take over as an ADC mainstay, or disrupt hard tanks as much as you think it is.

IwfiKe3qjMApr 8, 20151 votes

other than that 20% CDR which (maybe) too much IMO... everything else is still fine... (still has %Armor shred that makes Black Cleaver... Black Cleaver)

Celeste BenalApr 20, 20151 votes

I'm looking forward to trying this on Skarner . He benefits from all those stats, and his Q does AoE physical damage. So does Jinx's Fishbones for that matter. The extra CDR will let him proc effects like Rage and Spellblade faster (spellblade from item 3025 ), it will bring his shield and MS buff (W) up more frequently, and reduce the CD on his ult. The HP will synergize with the %HP bonus from Cinderhulk, which will in turn again synergize well with IBG. Seems like a really good 3rd item for him.