Why is there no teambuilder ranked?

Sordani·Dec 19, 2014·25 votes·3,895 views

really the title says it all, teambuilder would reduce the trolls that play and allow better team synergy. why is it you dont have a ranked teambuilder queue?

63 Comments

Apex CitavistaDec 19, 201414 votes

This has been brought up a lot, and here I am again to explain. :)

First off, Team Builder is an amazing concept, and that is what i play probably 70% of the time. It's great, fewer trolls, you play what you want, where you want, and you can get the team you want.

However, the point of ranked is to judge your skill. Not to judge your best champion in one roll. You need to be able to play every roll, to be in ranked. It is to help level our your skill. You can be diamond level of skill as jungle, and be bronze in laning. should you be in diamond? No. Because you can only do one thing really. It defeats the whole purpose of ranking system. 80% of people would only play one champion, as one roll. The point of ranked is to show your skill, not in one area, but in the game itself. Yes you should have a main role and champion/s that you always try to play, but the thing is that you don't always get them.

Ranked Team Builder would ruin the whole tier system, as well as climbing. Not to mention how hard it is to get a support in normal Team Builder, can you imagine waiting for one in a ranked queue?

They would have to show some kind of differential between each of the roles for each summoner. Literally making a rank for each position, and then getting an average ranking from all of them together. Which would take an immense about for data calculation, not to mention time/money.

And if they did that, what would you say when you want to join a team? "Well my average ranking is gold2, but I'm a diamond 3 in top lane" "I see you're also silver in ADC and mid, jungle, and gold in support".

I would create a huge gap.

RaptameiDec 19, 20148 votes

Cool story. How does it judge skill when your team may or may not be playing their best or worst role?

OrbvDec 19, 20145 votes

The only people who should be advancing up the ladder should be competent in every role. Yes there are many Plats/Diamonds/Master/Challenger that stick to a limited number of champions, but if you look at ANY of their ranked game histories they all have had to play other roles and STILL won.

Ranked is more about being a great team player. Nobody cares if you're good at one role only unless you're shooting for a Challenger Series team. Honestly when someone says "I need to play ______, I main it" I die a little on the inside. I "used" to main mid, but because so many people called it, I got significantly better at Support/Top/ADC.

As for creating a teambuilder for ranked, they already explained that it's actually bound to not work. They suggested going to regular team builder, playing with a team, and if you like those members, add them and play ranked 5s because nobody is going to be able to play the least liked roles if their Rank is based on it.

The EllimiistDec 19, 20146 votes

{quoted}

As for creating a teambuilder for ranked, they already explained that it's actually bound to not work.

Actually in the current faq they said they are looking into something for ranked. Just that obviously picking your champion before the match wouldnt work.

OrbvDec 19, 20142 votes

Ah I read that incorrectly, thanks.

HorrowDec 19, 20146 votes

"The only people who should be advancing up the ladder should be competent in every role. "

Sorry but the competitive scene completely proves you wrong. Sure, there are some Pro players that MIGHT play two roles, but the general norm is that they practice and excel in ONE role. There's a reason why its a five-man team.

OrbvDec 19, 20143 votes

You completely ignored the rest of my post, but that's okay I'll iterate differently. Players need only master one role to ascend, once they have already gotten to a level where that is acceptable. But it is literally impossible to start from 1200 ELO and become Challenger in one role alone. Can you show me a single competitive player who got Challenger from unranked using a single role?

If you list a single LCS player from NA you'd be completely wrong. Look at every single of their match histories of the past 3 years. I'm a strong viewer, almost never missing a game, and I have looked at each player's records, even Challenger series.

So you are highly mistaken. In order to ASCEND in ranked at all, you MUST be competent in every role, not good, competent. If you can't understand how a role plays and how it contributes to a game, and even have to play them once in a while, you will NEVER go above Platinum.

AmazingGoatDec 19, 20142 votes

{quoted}

You completely ignored the rest of my post, but that's okay I'll iterate differently. Players need only master one role to ascend, once they have already gotten to a level where that is acceptable. But it is literally impossible to start from 1200 ELO and become Challenger in one role alone. Can you show me a single competitive player who got Challenger from unranked using a single role?

If you list a single LCS player from NA you'd be completely wrong. Look at every single of their match histories of the past 3 years. I'm a strong viewer, almost never missing a game, and I have looked at each player's records, even Challenger series.

So you are highly mistaken. In order to ASCEND in ranked at all, you MUST be competent in every role, not good, competent. If you can't understand how a role plays and how it contributes to a game, and even have to play them once in a while, you will NEVER go above Platinum.

A couple of quick comments:

(1) It may be impossible to play the same role in EVERY game, but there are plenty of support, ADC, and jungle mains who play the same role in 90% of matches. See, for example:

Thresh support player in Korea: "Reaper Thresh" Draven ADC player in NA: "fabbbyyy"

My understanding is that once you get past diamond 3 or so, if you are playing out of role, you are just hoping to go even, as you are understood to be at a big disadvantage if you are playing in lane against someone who mains the role.

(2) I highly doubt any viable system would let you only queue for mid or top, as the wait times would simply be too long. If you want to specialize in playing only support or ADC you probably could, but you largely can under the current system anyway.

OrbvDec 19, 20141 votes

I enjoy your points.

Though I argue for skill diversity, Soraka was who got me out of Bronze, didn't touch her in Silver until Silver 1 and then that's who got me into Gold. It helps to specialize but a lot of players make it more of a hindrance because they don't know how to play outside of their scope.

BouncingPecsDec 19, 20142 votes

I didn't realize that out of 11 million players, the "Pro Players" which make up less than 0.001% of the total are the norm. I'm pretty sure that the 10 million players in Bronze--Platinum make up the competitive scene as well, not just the ones who make it onto the Championship series. High Elo Bias, not everyone plays like that.

BresnDec 20, 20141 votes

It's being able to adopt to champion picks on the other side and BAN champions.

thePandevDec 20, 20142 votes

Well I wouldn't necessarily agree with your philosophical evaluation of the situation. A soccer player may be the best forward in the world, and widely regarded as the best in the world, but that doesn't mean he isn't the best because he's a bad defender. If you're a challenger korean master 1 jungler, you deserve that rank, because that's your BEST. And giving your BEST is what matters.

GGMysticDec 20, 20141 votes

I'd have agree with T.Guard for the most part. Ranked teambuilder is in fact a good idea, but there are still a lot of problems with it. A good example is a player that joins teambuilder as a midlaner, but can only play Zed. Now you have to go through this whole process of, "Is this champ good for our team comp?" Basically, to kick or not to kick. Another issue people come across is getting a teammate that can only play 1 champion in in their chosen role comfortably and if that champ gets banned or picked up by the enemy team, you might as well dodge the game and go back into teambuilder. Too many problems arise when building teams with random players.

Riot could however, allow players to signup on a list when they are ready to play Ranked at a specific time. That list would contain the player's main role and their champion pool for that role. After that, if someone wanted to "build a team," they could just recruit players from that list. Even though this idea may be sound, it still has its own problems (e.g. some players may never get recruited).

It's a difficult problem to solve and that's why I don't think there will be a solution released any time soon.

As for now, people playing Ranked should be prepared for situations where they don't get their main roles. Just like how a Jungler should be prepared for invades and no leashes. Main a role and excel at it, but at the same time, be able to at least play 1 champion in others roles effectively because the odds of you getting into a team where at least 1 player doesn't get their main role is greater than getting into a team where everybody gets their main role. That's just how the system is right now.

NørseDec 22, 20141 votes

Well you can't ban in team builder, so the issue comes down to mirror match lanes, and no strategy as you are just blind picking into whatever they have.

iainB85Dec 19, 201410 votes

All I see here are opinions.

"The only people who should be advancing up the ladder should be good at every role."

Why? That is just your opinion, and I am sure lots disagree with you.

The EllimiistDec 19, 20143 votes

Yah I see that comment alot. People who are already in diamond/master etc can play every role. Doesn't mean you enjoy playing every role. There's also a reason even pro specialize in a role.

Robins TightsDec 19, 20141 votes

About 40% of players in the LCS have moved to play maining a second position based on need. It may not seem important, but that would be impossible unless they were challenger capable at a second role.

People also make it seem like it's IMPOSSIBLE to main 2 roles. Seriously, some strongly complement others

Mid - Top (Solo Laners, 1 ganks more, 1 focuses on pushing distraction) Mid - Support (Mostly Mages unless you play tank bot, both are great at Area of Control)

Top - Jungle (LCS players who do one HAVE at least scrimmed as the other)

ADC - Support (A great support understands what kind of ADC complements their gameplay, and vice versa, an ADC who understands the Support's role will be able to identity initiations and teamwork)

Jungle - Support (Starved for Gold, the playmakers of the game)

SordaniDec 19, 20144 votes

not going to lie though, teambuilder is a perfect mode, but they could easily implement a seperate ranked que for it, and do exactly what you said. really they capture most of the deatilas anyway, towers minions gold lanes etc. it wouldnt take that much mroe to complete a new queue for it, and really man im just tired of pick order being quite a cockblock.

CindikleDec 19, 20143 votes

Ranked is meant to show your understanding of the game as a whole. Not just with what you want to play.

Not many people play it this way though. They just play it like a normal. Pick a champ that doesn't fit the comp and wonder why they lost.

How often do you see teams actually communicate and strategist while bans are going? Ranked isn't about playing your best champion. It's about your ability to adjust to the differences in the game. Meaning you may play a different roll. You may end up not getting your champion because it's banned. You may end up picking early and getting countered in lane. Adding team builder into this would change a lot.

That doesn't mean Ranked couldn't use some help. There is little time to prepare for a match. Most race through bans and start picking. There's no way to setup the order of picks. So you can avoid getting your mid lane countered. Only way to deal with it is hope your team can trade you. But Team Builder isn't the answer. It shuts out a lot of the strategy.

DoctrorpheusDec 19, 20143 votes

There should be a team builder for ranked it would work like this:

You only get to pick your role. THAT'S IT! Nothing else.

It dumps you into draft after that as usual! BUT...

Now there won't be any conflicts between the 5 people on your team as to what role they want to play.

Everyone is happy.

GG NO RE

SammystormDec 19, 20141 votes

What happens when that person says he wants to go mid but picks renekton and goes top with you? What you proposed doesn't actually solve trolls. it potentially gives them more ammo. It also just makes queue times a lot longer.

OJ191Dec 20, 20141 votes

{quoted}

What happens when that person says he wants to go mid but picks renekton and goes top with you? What you proposed doesn't actually solve trolls. it potentially gives them more ammo. It also just makes queue times a lot longer.

{quoted}

Actually, this problem gets worse. You see, if you implement a role-based queue there will be a long queue to get mid and instant queue for support. Thus, you'll still find "mid or feed" guy, only now he's queued as support and is pushing around a player who has waited to get a mid slot.

selecting a role then picking for a different role and going to that other lane instead of the one you queued for, is obviously trolling/griefing and should warrant an instant 3 day ban no exceptions.

{quoted}

This is very different than the team builder experience. Team builder is about playing champion X in lane Y in role Z. Typically we call what you just described "queue by role". I have a different set of complaints for this one:

How do you avoid enforcing the meta?

Queue times are gonna be scary.

What about players that like to fill?

Sigh, picking a role doesn't mean enforcing a meta it means avoiding team comps that are unwinnable assuming equal skill between teams. You COULD just pick a lane, but if you pick a role as well it means the matchmaking can go "hmm these people pick adc top adc mid adc bot adc jungle maybe I shouldn't match that together because they will get shit on by any balanced team of equal skill"
If you want a shorter queue time you can queue for a less-in-demand role/lane, meanwhile those of us who main in-demand roles can just wait longer.
so add a "fill" role/lane where matchmaking will just put you in any lane/role that is needed to fill a team.

SmokingPuffinDec 22, 20141 votes

selecting a role then picking for a different role and going to that other lane instead of the one you queued for, is obviously trolling/griefing and should warrant an instant 3 day ban no exceptions.

I agree, it's trolling, and it's punishable. However, punishing for trolling has never eliminated trolling. This is going to be super annoying for players who now are sitting in a long queue to play the role they want, and just dismissing it with a "we'll punish the trolls" is not going to solve anything.

Sigh, picking a role doesn't mean enforcing a meta it means avoiding team comps that are unwinnable assuming equal skill between teams. You COULD just pick a lane, but if you pick a role as well it means the matchmaking can go "hmm these people pick adc top adc mid adc bot adc jungle maybe I shouldn't match that together because they will get shit on by any balanced team of equal skill"

Queueing up by lane and role explicitly excludes other viable choices. Turns out that even with the full team builder set of tools, it's not realistic to assemble a team that wants to play 2v1 lanes. Nobody queues for top/support.

The competitive metagame is considerably more interesting than the solo queue one, and if you codify that teams are to play top, mid, adc/support bot, jungle, you ensure that solo queue will never mimic the pro scene.

If you want a shorter queue time you can queue for a less-in-demand role/lane, meanwhile those of us who main in-demand roles can just wait longer.

Long queue times go hand in hand with lousy matchmaking. The matchmaking from team builder would never fly for ranked.

Also, I rather prefer a short queue with a 60% chance to get a role I want over a long queue with 100% chance to get a role I want.

so add a "fill" role/lane where matchmaking will just put you in any lane/role that is needed to fill a team.

This won't work. A player who queue-by-roles as "fill" will be treated exactly the same as a support player. That's not usually what a fill player wants to do -- they like being flexible and versatile, not playing support every game.

OJ191Dec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

This won't work. A player who queue-by-roles as "fill" will be treated exactly the same as a support player. That's not usually what a fill player wants to do -- they like being flexible and versatile, not playing support every game.

Except If support is so not-in-demand as to be causing problems for a teambuilder-like ranked mode, then all the fill players would already be going support every single game...

maybe it's actually nowhere near the issue you like to claim it is? (it's an issue for sure but I disagree it's as bad a one as so many like to claim when denigrating teambuilderesque solutions to ranked)

{quoted}

No.

But it is a fact you need to understand all the roles and what they do to effectively climb. It's pointless spamming the same role every game if you can't even predict which of your lanes is the most desirable for the enemy jungler.

You can't build a skyscraper if the foundation is shit.

You don't need to be diamond in every rank to understand how other lanes work...

{quoted}

Some existing trolls would stop trolling because incentive structures changed. Other currently neutral players would start trolling because incentive structures changed. Hard to say which effect is larger.

To me, the main problem here is that it feels considerably worse to get trolled in the role based queue. Dodging the troll is just a crushing experience, because you waited a long time for that queue to pop and that role was "yours". In the current system, it's much easier to deal; heck, half the time mid or feed guy is above you in the pick order anyway.

In terms of overall toxicity, I think you'd likely see a reduction. We know from Lyte team builder has fewer reports per game than normal draft. Many players think "that guy took top when I wanted it and now he's feeding" and you never have this problem in a role based queue.

Except in a teambuilderesque role based queue it's much easier to point to something going wrong and say "this is blatantly trolling".

Give a warning when queueing for it about you must do the role/lane you picked yada yada and then violating that by picking a something other than what you queued as, or similarly blatant trolling, results in an instant 3 day ban for the first offense, escalating to 7 day then 14 day then perma.

Trolls would disappear right fast if they could only troll 4 times before a permaban, and it wouldn't even require multiple reports, add a specific report option, and if anyone uses that report option against a player it will check their chat (in case a lane switch was negotiated) and in-game locational heatmaps (esp for early game) against the role/lane they chose.

Hell for those who say they're going to troll from champ select instead of just going ahead and doing it in-game, give an in-champ-select report option that will save their chat for review then boot them from the game if all 4 team members did it. You wouldn't have to wait long because you only have to wait for whatever role the troll queued for.

{quoted}

That's Riot's fault for making support boring. They should fix that before implementing this feature.

TBH Support isn't that boring, it's just really hard to do anything if you don't get a cooperative adc (so all the fucking time below diamond, and still in diamond if you get trolls).

SmokingPuffinDec 23, 20141 votes

Except If support is so not-in-demand as to be causing problems for a teambuilder-like ranked mode, then all the fill players would already be going support every single game...

My experience in ranked solo queue is that hardly anyone says anything. People just go by pick order and pick whatever they like from what's open. This is a very different experience than you would get by checking all the role boxes in a queue by role system.

maybe it's actually nowhere near the issue you like to claim it is? (it's an issue for sure but I disagree it's as bad a one as so many like to claim when denigrating teambuilderesque solutions to ranked)

Support is clearly the limiting factor in team builder. In my play experience, instant queues for support, 10+ minute queues for mid. Not sure how that experience will translate to ranked -- on the one hand, I expect more ranked support mains, but on the other hand, I expect the matchmaker will need to pair things more closely. In team builder there are often gold and sometimes silver players in my games; in ranked, players more than a division apart is going to be a bad experience.

OJ191Dec 23, 20141 votes

{quoted}

My experience in ranked solo queue is that hardly anyone says anything. People just go by pick order and pick whatever they like from what's open. This is a very different experience than you would get by checking all the role boxes in a queue by role system.

Support is clearly the limiting factor in team builder. In my play experience, instant queues for support, 10+ minute queues for mid. Not sure how that experience will translate to ranked -- on the one hand, I expect more ranked support mains, but on the other hand, I expect the matchmaker will need to pair things more closely. In team builder there are often gold and sometimes silver players in my games; in ranked, players more than a division apart is going to be a bad experience.

In my experience I have been just as likely to have to wait on any other role as support. This is over on OCE however maybe we're just not biased against supporting.

(stupid forums refuse to stay logged in as OCE, sometimes it won't even let me logout from NA then login as OCE it just claims the account doesn't exist rofl).

DoctrorpheusDec 22, 20142 votes

{quoted}

What happens when that person says he wants to go mid but picks renekton and goes top with you? What you proposed doesn't actually solve trolls. it potentially gives them more ammo. It also just makes queue times a lot longer.

Nothing solves trolls sir. The scenario you described can happen right now. There is nothing to be done about trolls at all. But my solution still stands as the best Ranked Team Builder idea to date.

Also I wanted to amend that you wouldn't be able to actually "build a team" you would still only be able to single or duo. Obviously duo would take longer to get into a game because both of your roles would be need to be accommodated.

There is no "captain" in ranked team builder you are simply going to be dumped into the draft as usual only this time you won't see 3 people say that they only main mid.

Again there is NOTHING to be done to stop trolls, just as there is NOTHING to be done to stop them in the current ranked draft. I didn't even propose this as a way to stop trolls and don't really know why that was your response.

SammystormDec 22, 20141 votes

So it doesn't stop trolls and adds a longer queue time? Why is that a good idea? Better question. Waht would that solve?

DoctrorpheusDec 22, 20142 votes

{quoted}

So it doesn't stop trolls and adds a longer queue time? Why is that a good idea?

Because it adds team builder element to ranked. Do I really have to spell it out?

Ok, what does team builder do?

It lets people que in as the champ and role that they want to play.

RANKED TEAM BUILDER simply lets you que in for an intended role. This way instead of 3 people who want to play mid showing up in your que. Only one person will. Wouldn't you want to wait a little longer to get into a match where everyone got the role they wanted (and are presumably strongest at)?

Saint MillayDec 19, 20142 votes

#1. Why would this reduce trolls? The same people will be playing ranked. You'd have the same number of trolls. #2. Would you just Q up as a role and then play be forced to play with the team you were assigned? Or would it be just like team builder is now where you can pick and choose?

If it's option 1, then you would have ALL sorts of trolls. People could Q as Garen ADC and if you got stuck with them then good luck! You'd also have no chance at team synergy. Did you Q as Yasou? Aww, too bad your support who can play Thresh or Sona decided to Q up as Sona this game. You could also end up with horribly balanced teams ... oh look we all Q'd as AD.

If it's option 2, then you would have ALL sorts of issues. People would abuse this so ONLY dominant meta champs got selected. If you're not playing a "power" jungler/adc/whatever then teams will just keep kicking you. Also, people could use the kick function to assemble 5 man teams in Solo Q. I hope you enjoy playing against pre-mades.

#3. Having a ban phase lets people lock out champs that are not currently balanced properly (WW for the past few weeks is a good example).

#4. Picking / counter-picking champions is a skill. You're completely removing that skill.

#5. You're further dividing the Qs, making for less balanced games and longer queue times.

These are just a few of the problems with team builder in ranked without even getting into the metaphysical questions of "what constitutes a diamond player?" (Do you need to be diamond across all roles or just one specific character.)

Space BumDec 19, 20144 votes

Have everyone queue up as a role. There would be a team leader like always to ensure the roles are not out of wack and the team could discuss who they "intend" to pick. Everyone ready clicks and then it drops you in the normal ranked pick/ban screen.

NamesRHardDec 19, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Saint Millay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdiHgM33,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2014-12-19T15:55:20.427+0000)

#1. Why would this reduce trolls? The same people will be playing ranked. You'd have the same number of trolls.

No more "mid or feed" or similar trolls

#2. Would you just Q up as a role and then play be forced to play with the team you were assigned? Or would it be just like team builder is now where you can pick and choose?

This was already answered, but to reiterate: You queue for a roll, no champion. You get put into a team builder lobby to discuss possible picks/bans. Then you all select ready, get matched with an enemy team, and drop into a traditional draft lobby. (Loved the idea of giving support the ban responsibility, btw)

#3. Having a ban phase lets people lock out champs that are not currently balanced properly (WW for the past few weeks is a good example).

See #2, you'd still have a ban phase

#4. Picking / counter-picking champions is a skill. You're completely removing that skill.

Same as 2 and 3

#5. You're further dividing the Qs, making for less balanced games and longer queue times.

Valid concern, though with the method describe in #2 and elsewhere, you could easily have both queues matched together. However, I do think this would give team builder queded teams a big advantage over normal draft teams

I'm of the opinion that it would be easy for Riot to do, but I'm also a pretty casual player and I believe that's the TB target demographic, so I acknowledge that I my have a bias towards the TB queueing set up.

SammystormDec 19, 20141 votes

However as soon as you drop people into draft they can troll just the same. If all it did is let you queue up as preferences it would dramatically increase queue times because of how long it would take to find someone with support preference or it would have issues with 2 people wanting the same lane. As far as I can see all it would do is increase the time we wait for games and not decrease trolls. Trolls will still do things like mid or afk, it won't look the same but they will still do things that piss every one else off. That is what trolls do, they find ways to piss people off. Lets be honest too most of the people who play this game are normal rational human beings. A few have short fuses but most people want to win. So giving trolls more ammo does not seem like a good idea

NamesRHardDec 20, 20141 votes

If the trolls are going to troll regardless of game or queue type, then does this really make things better or worse? Why not make a game/queue mode that will benefit the vast majority of players and report the trolls as we've always done (Riot's ability to handle those reports properly notwithstanding as that's off topic of on the current discussion).

OJ191Dec 20, 20141 votes

{quoted}

If the trolls are going to troll regardless of game or queue type, then does this really make things better or worse? Why not make a game/queue mode that will benefit the vast majority of players and report the trolls as we've always done (Riot's ability to handle those reports properly notwithstanding as that's off topic of on the current discussion).

it's actually BETTER to have trolls in a teambuilder-esque queue because if they select one role/lane then pick and play in another, it is blatantly obvious they are trolling/griefing so you can just give them an outright 3 day ban for a first offense, 7 day for a second, 2 week for a third, perma for a fourth.

SmokingPuffinDec 20, 20142 votes

No more "mid or feed" or similar trolls

Actually, this problem gets worse. You see, if you implement a role-based queue there will be a long queue to get mid and instant queue for support. Thus, you'll still find "mid or feed" guy, only now he's queued as support and is pushing around a player who has waited to get a mid slot.

NamesRHardDec 20, 20141 votes

This was a big fear in WoW when they introduced roll-based raid finder during Cataclysm. As far as I know, this never actually became a problem (I played until about mid-way through MoP). I don't have the psych background to make an informed guess on if LoL would have similar or differing results, but I assume Riot hires individuals who do (doesn't Lyte have a PhD in psychology or behavioral studies or something along those lines?).

SmokingPuffinDec 20, 20141 votes

There is no need to predict. We already have the live data from team builder, unless you see a reason for the results to be significantly different in ranked. For me, support queues are instant and mid queues are north of 10 minutes.

NamesRHardDec 20, 20141 votes

No questioning that supports will have shorter queues than rolls like top or mid, on average. What I think is difficult to predict is whether a player who would normally "mid or feed" a regular queue would still troll a roll-based queue. Undoubtedly some would, and the only solution for those types is reporting. I think it's likely that some percentage of current "mid or feed" trolls would end their trolling ways if given a legitimate method to ensure their desired roll. What I can't predict is if this would lead to a net reduction in toxicity. I think it would, but as I said before, that's just my opinion based on my quite limited knowledge.

SmokingPuffinDec 20, 20141 votes

I think it's likely that some percentage of current "mid or feed" trolls would end their trolling ways if given a legitimate method to ensure their desired roll.

Some existing trolls would stop trolling because incentive structures changed. Other currently neutral players would start trolling because incentive structures changed. Hard to say which effect is larger.

To me, the main problem here is that it feels considerably worse to get trolled in the role based queue. Dodging the troll is just a crushing experience, because you waited a long time for that queue to pop and that role was "yours". In the current system, it's much easier to deal; heck, half the time mid or feed guy is above you in the pick order anyway.

What I can't predict is if this would lead to a net reduction in toxicity. I think it would, but as I said before, that's just my opinion based on my quite limited knowledge.

In terms of overall toxicity, I think you'd likely see a reduction. We know from Lyte team builder has fewer reports per game than normal draft. Many players think "that guy took top when I wanted it and now he's feeding" and you never have this problem in a role based queue.

Apex CitavistaDec 22, 20141 votes

But when you run the risk of "You're in ranked team builder, that's your main role, and you're feeding that bad? you're fucking terrible?" for when you have a bad game. While I could see some overall toxicity going down, I think the selected incidents would be much more aggressive because that person is in your elo, in their main role, and losing the game for you.

RaptameiDec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

There is no need to predict. We already have the live data from team builder, unless you see a reason for the results to be significantly different in ranked. For me, support queues are instant and mid queues are north of 10 minutes.

That's Riot's fault for making support boring. They should fix that before implementing this feature.

AccountaBilabudyDec 19, 20142 votes

LOL people saying "ranked is supposed to be judging how good you are at all roles" are retarded. So when you join a lobby and people call "Mid/Top or feed" its REALLY judging how good YOU are at all roles.

Stop it.

Just implement role picking/team builder already.

Axel GearDec 20, 20142 votes

Most people will say: "But the game wants to test your skill in all roles, not just your best one." Yet almost ALL of the top ranked players are ones that get their favorite role 95% of the time. I've been in games where TSM Bjergsen was ADC, or Wildturtle was top laning. They don't look like pro players in those roles whatsoever.

It's a faux argument.

pcfmYiJC8RDec 20, 20142 votes

Honestly everyone will be against it cause Riot didn't suggest it. If Riot added it everyone would change their mind and tell Riot what a great job they are doing.

So ya, normal people suggesting ideas almost always get trolled by the community, Riot would have to suggest it or add it for people to take it serious.

SmokingPuffinDec 19, 20141 votes

Bans
Counterpicks
If you get matched with teammates you don't like, you can just leave without penalty

AccountaBilabudyDec 20, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Bans

Counterpicks

If you get matched with teammates you don't like, you can just leave without penalty

You would still have bans and counterpicks. you would just pre-select your role, then get matched with 4 other roles and go into a draft pick. there could still be trolls who select support then pick katarina but it would at least have the basis down.

SmokingPuffinDec 20, 20141 votes

{quoted}

You would still have bans and counterpicks. you would just pre-select your role, then get matched with 4 other roles and go into a draft pick. there could still be trolls who select support then pick katarina but it would at least have the basis down.

This is very different than the team builder experience. Team builder is about playing champion X in lane Y in role Z. Typically we call what you just described "queue by role". I have a different set of complaints for this one:

How do you avoid enforcing the meta?
Queue times are gonna be scary.
What about players that like to fill?

lightnig789Dec 23, 20141 votes

because team builder takes away counter picking banning champs and will be filled with adcs and mids trying to find games the amount of ranked games will go down the reson its in normal and only normal is because there are a lot more people playing roles other then adc\mid