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How are the forced-feeling wins and forced-feeling losses supposed to make the game better?

Inari Fox Orrion··34 votes·12,099 views

(I know "forced-feeling" will all but invalidate the point I'm trying to joust across to Riot, but if I say "forced" then there're going to be people who adamantly deny and defend Riot like this hasn't been a consistent issue and not one relegated to 0.0001% of people.)

I don't know about you, but when I get chains of garbage ADCs and junglers all in a row at once, consistently, I start to question Riot and the choices they make. If the matchmaking does function like we're starting to think it does, I have to ask "Why?"

Here's the funny thing about losing because your ADC facechecks vs. Blitzcrank, or because your ADC starts to flame the entire team: it's not fun, and it makes me not want to play. Not just me, a lot of other people. It's frustrating, because you can't do anything about it (especially as a support); It's tedious and boring, because you need to go through the motions of playing through the hopeless or much-more-difficult-than-it-should-be match.

I don't know, and maybe something about this general day and age has flipped this sort of ideology on it's head, but I don't buy skins or champions in games I don't enjoy. Why would I? I'm not getting the adrenaline flowing, and I'm not enjoying their thematic design or any of their flashy effects because I'm too busy thinking to myself "Hmm, yeah... I hope next game will be better, but I'm sure it won't." The feeling of apathy and spite will eventually outweigh any desire to play the game and/or support you, Riot.

...but fine. It's not for monetary reason alone, lets say... ...but then how does it feed the addiction? Your gameplay itself is addicting. Your matchmaking, not so much. I think you've got the two confused, Riot. You might just find that if you adjust the way MMR works so that it's actually "what you see is what you get" (and not matching me and my team against all silvers n' shit) you won't end up losing players! It might even do a bit to aid your trembling E-Sport scehe, to have some fresh blood in a game where the same old players have been playing and burning out on it.

Strange, right? Almost like all E-Sport titles are based upon real sports of some kind, where constant new competition is what keeps people up n' watching -- "How will they deal with this new, clever team that they've never seen before?"

EDIT: I am a Support OTP. I don't think I'd need to point this out, but I guess I do. Supports do not CS and mainly protect the ADC and other carries on-team from the enemy team. I am not a Mid player. I am not a Top player. I am purely, 100% a Support OTP. Got it?

73 Comments

BigFBear14 votes

Dude are you fucking kidding me? I checked your account. This is no rank shaming but if you are this low + 43% winrate you should check your gameplay instead pointing towards others.

You have an average CS around 0,7 per MINUTE(!!) in all roles. I mean WTF? This is actually trolling! How can you have 9 minion kills in 28 minutes as Ahri?! No one can be that bad! And this isn't only in one of your games... It's in almost all of your games!

It's always funny if you see a post like this, then check the account and realize what a troll the OP is. How DARE you call others bad and garbage ADCs when you are the most garbage one. Unbelievable! Actually you should be banned or at least get a restriction for this.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

[deleted]

BigFBear11 votes

There is no such thing like forced winrate. There are Players who play from unranked to Grandmaster in under a week! I often have Smurfs in my games with 90% winrate. Of COURSE winrate goes down to 50% when you reach your skill-cap Elo. And your skill-cap seems to be Bronze atm.

Inari Fox Orrion4 votes

Dude. I am a support OTP. Do you get that CS is NOT SOMETHING A SUPPORT NEEDS OR WANTS? Want me to improve my CS? You'll need to convince EVERY PERSON who bitches at me because I, AS A SUPPORT, CS.

I don't think someone of my skill lies in a place where I'm communicating with my team and telling them not to do something that they do and then die or cause the rest of us to suffer for. All. The. Time. "Don't go in on Kat." "Stick near tower." "Build Banshee's Veil." "Don't try to poke without minions, he'll hook you." Basic shit like that. You know their response? 99% of the time, they ignore me. Then they die. Then they flame. Then they feed. 1% of the time isn't enough to climb. If this is my 'true ranking', it also shouldn't be so frustrating. I should feel like I learn things here and not in ranks that're only, exclusively, above it or with smurfs.

I cannot emphasize this any more; THERE ARE MANY, MANY PEOPLE SAYING THE GAME FORCES A 50% WINRATE... and Riot has presented no proof -- no source code, nothing -- to prove it wrong.

There could be something to the 'rumor', you know. Riot still refuses to let people see the code for the matchmaking themselves. They give people vague responses in regards to how it functions. They update how MMR functions in Korea for no known reason. They continue to be evasive and suspicious.

BigFBear8 votes

Ah ok I see. My bad. Sorry but I rarely see Darius, Ahri, Swain, Akali, Kayle, MF or Vayne as Support.

Maybe this has something to do with your hardstuck. I don't know.

Inari Fox Orrion2 votes

It probably does. I don't think playing any of them as a Support does me any good, but at the same time I do genuinely feel that it doesn't matter what I pick because it doesn't come down to how well I initiate, tank, ward, smite or protect the AD. I can't say for sure, though, because one game - the one where I had picked Yasuo - had shown me otherwise; I was one of the most useless people on the team, and worse, my ADC was one of the best but failed because of me.

I don't think it's the matchmaking itself is at fault for me losing if I pick something dumb or something questionably valid. I deserve the loss. I don't deserve to win if I don't put effort into my pick or think about it's downfalls. I don't deserve to win if I feed or sit near fountain and ignore important fights. I don't deserve to win if I'm an asshole to the team or get in their way. I know.

...but...

I've tried to eliminate any bias I have; All it ends up doing is cementing the idea that something else is going on behind closed doors, that none of us are allowed to know about because it'd prove the matchmaking unfair or malicious. I hate it.

All Riot has to do Is post the source code for the matchmaking algorithm to end the rumors once and for all, but they decide not to.

Edit: MF is a reasonable poke support, and Kayle still does her Kayle things. Their downfall is their lack of hard CC, so you only really pick it if you have reliable enough CC already and/or you're fighting Zyra.

Ifneth5 votes

Sounds like you have a lot of problems to solve before you can climb.

  1. Mentality. Either you really believe that there’s no point trying, since Riot or your team will make it pointless, or you can become so upset that you blurt our stuff like that. This attitude is demotivating.

  2. Consistency. Like the above poster said, you need to pick a few champions, preferably ones designed to support, and play them every game. If you know two or three, then you can even counter-pick for easier lanes.

  3. Warding. Keep one trinket in your pocket and place it every time another one is about to spawn. Put it in the river. Once you have your support item, swap your trinket for a sweeper and ward and sweep every time you push. Buy a control ward and put it somewhere safe. No more surprise ganks!

Do this, and you’ll probably gain a few divisions in a week just by letting yourself win the games that you otherwise should.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

It's good advice, especially the first piece of it... but when it comes to consistency, I've tried. I've tried picking Leona or Sona or whoever I think is best (of the 'true' Supports) every game. It still ends the same. Warding is a non-issue -- I always have the highest ward-score (and I've even learned the legendary 200+ IQ ward) but after I left and returned a few months later I may have gotten a bit rusty. I still outclass a majority of the Supports I fight (and don't go picking singular cases where I don't out, because I'm aware they exist and when I see it post-game, I try to do better the next.)

I would buy "pick better champions" if it was me that fed. It's not. You'll scroll through my games and often find a negative jungler, midlaner or (sometimes) an ADC, and while I may be able to do certain things to keep the ADC alive it doesn't much matter if they walk out of Redemption's heal zone for no reason and then get pulled.

Tell you what: I'll try it again, picking 'pure' Supports for an entire 24hr. I'll get back to you on how it goes, and I'll try to be positive... but some distinct, logical part of me tells me that it won't end well anyway. I'm trying it because I may be wrong.

Ifneth1 votes

I checked your op.gg. Your account is frankly either a smurf who likes to get a bunch of kills and then troll around, or playing like one. Since you couldn’t even follow your own plan to play Support for a full Sona build—trying to sneak a Lich Bane in and following with a Shaco game—I really wonder whether you’ll follow my advice.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

I said "Actual supports"; I should put this very bluntly: I do not mean 'I only play Enchanters', I mean 'I don't do dumb shit like Ahri Support or Yasuo Support' -- I do things that can reasonably work as a support, and Shaco counts. Sona does too, no matter how I build her (and even then, with that high a gold lead do you really think going Enchanter was a good idea?)

If you want to see how I do playing only Sona or Leona with only Redemption/Locket/etc. then I don't think I can manage that because it's extremely boring to play Enchanters. Which is why people prefer Pyke, Morgana, Brand, etc.

I don't know if I should take that latter part as a complement though. I'm honored? I'm insulted? Whatever. No, I stick by my ADC when I know they're in reasonable fear of being killed in various horrible ways. That means I have a tendency not to push on my own unless it's safe. If I do, oftentimes I can only do it for moments at a time for various reasons, one of which being keeping my ADC alive.

Ifneth1 votes

Shaco is a niche support pick at best. I thought you meant the traditional support classes: tank, catcher, and enchanter. Their support items are gold efficient, cheap, forgiving, synergistic, and extremely powerful once completed. Whether ahead or behind, they are the right choice. Using their actives well is a unique part of the classes.

That said, mage supports also exist. Lux, Brand, and Zyra are all common and viable options. However, they require you to win lane and snowball a gold lead by earning assists and effectively being a second midlander. Pyke fulfills the same role. There’s nothing troll about playing these champions, either. What do you want to play?

That last paragraph has me very confused. What are you referring to?

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

I want to play assassin-supports; Supports that aren't only supports but do provide peel and use to the team, in an unorthodox way... like killing the enemy ADC. "They can be more useful elsewhere" doesn't matter much to me because they aren't being used elsewhere, and if they are then I don't pick them.

I've heard "then play jg." so much it irritates me. It's not fulfilling, and I suck at CSing on top of that. It's not an option when I never get any better at CSing with practice.

I mean, why I may not win games is because I rely on allies to help me push. I don't go out in a lane by myself to push unless it's safe to do so, which means it's almost never an option... and most of the time, when it is, my ADC is in danger of dying because they're in the middle of the enemy jungle. Other times, I do push... and, I get towers. It's simple.

I think what I'm looking for is a tank that's reasonably fast, deadly and capable of pushing lanes quickly when alone.

Winterwings4 votes

I cannot emphasize this any more; THERE ARE MANY, MANY PEOPLE SAYING THE GAME FORCES A 50% WINRATE... and Riot has presented no proof -- no source code, nothing -- to prove it wrong.

Congrats, you just used a logical fallacy - burden of proof https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

But, to dispute the point of the OP, while we cant say with certainty that the game does or doesn't force a 50% win rate, ultimately win rates only matter as a indicator of seeing if you are climbing the ladder or are not. As the earlier post said, your account currently holds a 43% win rate across the board in the 23 ranked games you played so far. While that is a somewhat small sample size of games, 43% win rate means you are in about the elo you should be in. Tying that back in with what i said earlier it also means you are, at this very moment, not climbing the ladder.

Let's take this one step further. Assuming your MMR is normal for the elo you play in you should be gaining slightly more LP per win than you lose LP per a game loss, which should translate to having above ~48 % win rate would mean you are still actually climbing the ladder even tho it may not appear so just looking at the numbers.

However, at the same time, if you claim the game is FORCING a 50 % win rate, it would do so for everyone, at all times... so then why is your win rate so low currently?

Over the years i played this game i learned not to judge win rates, elos, and all the rest of that jazz until i at least have a sample size of 100 games in total so while i cannot claim anything with certainty, my personal advice to get you back on track to climbing that painful ladder is for you to simply find 2 - 3 champs you truly enjoy playing (Since you said you only play supports, focus on champs in that particular role) and sticking to only alternating between playing them in ranked. Looking at your account it seems that you play all kinds of champions in support role - Shaco, Blitz, Leona, Aatrox, Ahri, Gnar, Zoe, Ornn etc. - playing this many champions with such vastly different playstyles (not to mention the lot of those actually have kits ill suited for supporting) is actually hurting your ability to win games since you are constantly subconsciously forcing yourself to learn champion kits, instead of learning the game fundamentals which are FAR more important when it comes to actually winning games.

And lastly, a bit of a advice from playing on my many, many low elo smurfs... when you are playing in these elos (Iron - low Gold), it is generally a bad idea to constantly look at the mistakes other people make , or even attempt to communicate with them about it no matter how basic or trivial it may seem to you, as there is nothing you can do about that and chances are doing so will only further hamper your chances of winning since people that play in those elos tend to be rather... Difficult to cooperate with and function in as a team... Instead you should focus on what YOU are doing and what you can DO BETTER from each and every game.

Sorry for the long rant, i didn't post on these boards in quite the long time and i had a lot on my mind about this topic.

haaaaaaalp3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitsuné Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ecpi6pz3,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-23T11:59:49.275+0000)

I cannot emphasize this any more; THERE ARE MANY, MANY PEOPLE SAYING THE GAME FORCES A 50% WINRATE... and Riot has presented no proof -- no source code, nothing -- to prove it wrong.

There could be something to the 'rumor', you know. Riot still refuses to let people see the code for the matchmaking themselves. They give people vague responses in regards to how it functions. They update how MMR functions in Korea for no known reason. They continue to be evasive and suspicious.

There are also many conspiracy theorists still claiming the earth is flat. Doesn't make them any less wrong. You can't combat conspiracy theorists with facts and numbers because they simply don't believe in those concepts. They will continue to fabricate their own reality no matter what is provided to them.

Also, riot has made all of the information readily available in the api for anyone who is willing to put in the effort to figure out matchmaking. No one bothers to do so because they know it is a waste of time and all they will accomplish is to disprove a few conspiracy theorists who we all know are wrong already.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

Present me proof then. Do it. Show me it's source code. You people defending it have as much ground to stand on as the people criticizing it: none at all, because Riot provides nothing for either side to base themselves on except anecdote.

There's proof the Earth is round, and there's none that it's flat. You people like to act smart and bitch about fallacies, but damn... if that isn't one right there. I guess you can't see it, though.

haaaaaaalp2 votes

__> [{quoted}](name=Kitsuné Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ecpi6pz3,comment-id=000900000000000000020000,timestamp=2019-03-23T22:14:28.672+0000)

Present me proof then. Do it. Show me it's source code. You people defending it have as much ground to stand on as the people criticizing it: none at all, because Riot provides nothing for either side to base themselves on except anecdote.

There's proof the Earth is round, and there's none that it's flat. You people like to act smart and bitch about fallacies, but damn... if that isn't one right there. I guess you can't see it, though.

There is proof of how matchmaking works on the api. If it matters so much to you, go do your own damn research. I'm not wasting my time digging through that just to prove to some conspiracy theorist something everyone else already knows. You will just make up some other bullshit excuse.

Hell, instead of just coming up with more bullshit conspiracy theories, why don't you actually come up with a "rigged" model that is actually mathematically comparable with the current queue times first? Doing that simple excersize will show you it is impossible to rig matchmaking for all 10 players to force a 50% winrate with the current queue times. You don't even need a source code or spend time digging though the api to disprove your little conspiracy theory. Then again, I don't expect co spir act theorists to actually deal with facts and numbers.

You can keep going on and on with your conspiracy theories but you will never get beyond the simple fact that there isn't a single matchmaking model in existence which can force a 50% winrate forall 10 players in a game while keeping queue times as low as they are. There is a model for a fair matchmaking system: the elo model.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

You do realize the API on every single site from OP.GG to MOBAFIRE -- on their own F.A.Qs no less -- state that it's an average/guesstimate because Riot does not provide them one? It sounds more like you're the one coming up with the B.S theories to justify yourself.

You can keep going on and on about how "it just doesn't work that way", and until they provide proof that you're right or wrong... it's an opinion and, in my own opinion, a very uninformed one.

haaaaaaalp2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitsuné Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ecpi6pz3,comment-id=00090000000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T01:24:50.034+0000)

You do realize the API on every single site from OP.GG to MOBAFIRE -- on their own F.A.Qs no less -- state that it's an average/guesstimate because Riot does not provide them one? It sounds more like you're the one coming up with the B.S theories to justify yourself.

You can keep going on and on about how "it just doesn't work that way", and until they provide proof that you're right or wrong... it's an opinion and, in my own opinion, a very uninformed one.

No, you just aren't reading the faq properly. Op.GG's old mmr was a guess but the match data was not. Wins and Losses for each account are exact data. You have all of the information you need, stop making up excuses.

Also, the burden of proof is on you because you are accusing riot of doing something that is mathematically impossible. Again, until you actually put forth a model that can actually enforce a 50% winrate for all 10 players with the current queue times, your theory is impossible. We have the elo model which is a fair matchmaking model which can get queue times as low as they are. That is the one I propose that riot is using because it is the only one which can maintain the queue times low. Until anyone can put forth an alternative model which fits the current queue times and matches found on the api, we have to conclude riot is using the only feasible model there is which is the elo model.

I'm not saying it doesn't work "that" way because you haven't even defined what "that" even means. You don't even have a model to prove or disprove, all you have is an impossible accusation with no model to back it up.

On top of everything, this is still ignoring the fact that even if someone magically found a model which could do the impossible task of enforcing 50% winrate on everyone, they have no reason to even do so. Intentionally giving players bad games will do nothing but make players quit and hurt riot's bottom line. There is also the problem of the fact that we are conveniently ignoring dual booster accounts which have 75-90% winrates. There are just too many things in league that simply cannot happen with a forced 50% winrate and which can realistically only happen with a fair elo model.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

Again, read my last post. I'm done responding to you unless you stop making the same arguments.

haaaaaaalp1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitsuné Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ecpi6pz3,comment-id=0009000000000000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T02:53:56.942+0000)

Again, read my last post. I'm done responding to you unless you stop making the same arguments over and over, but using more words this time to sound convincing and fill space.

I already addressed everything in your last post. I guess I shouldn't actually expect conspiracy theorists like you to actually acknowledge anything that goes against your fabricated version of reality.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

You're good at projection. You're telling me I'm wrong for the same reason I'm telling you you're wrong. It's strange how both of our thoughts happen to be completely opposite opinions and how you, because you can't accept the idea of a different belief, provide yours as fact when it isn't.

Get over yourself. You want to know why we're at an impasse? Because of the fact we have completely different thoughts on the matter. I made it a point in the O.P to say "This is an opinion!" for people who can't handle it, for that reason. Heed it.

haaaaaaalp1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitsuné Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ecpi6pz3,comment-id=000900000000000000020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T03:27:24.570+0000)

You're good at projection. You're telling me I'm wrong for the same reason I'm telling you you're wrong. It's strange how both of our thoughts happen to be completely opposite opinions and how you, because you can't accept the idea of a different belief, provide yours as fact when it isn't.

Get over yourself. You want to know why we're at an impasse? Because of the fact we have completely different thoughts on the matter. I made it a point in the O.P to say "This is an opinion!" for people who can't handle it, for that reason. Heed it.

No, you are simply ignoring everything that points against what you say. Here is one key difference between a fair matchmaking system and an enforced 50% matchmaking system that you keep dodging because you have no answer for:

You have yet to propose a model which can enforce a 50% winrate. This is not a matter of opinion, you have not provided a model which proves it is possible to enforce a 50% winrate for all 10 players in every game while still keeping queue times as low as they are. The elo model exists to prove that it is possible to create a fair matchmaking system with low queue times. The ball is in your court to show a model exist which can enforce a 50% winrate.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

and supposedly I'd have to come up with the system they use to know it's results or have any validity in their say? That isn't my job -- my job isn't to come up with a system for Riot to use, and it's sure as hell not my job to guess how a multi-million-dollar corporation would find ways to exploit and monetize people.

Who says the system isn't based off the Elo matchmaking system, hmm? Who says it doesn't adjust the MMR of people you fight very loosely because the game has few people left? Who says it's not a case where they take higher-tier players and place them against lower-tier ones to enforce one of the most base and primal reward systems found in nature?

The idea is that, at this point, it almost can't be as fair as it should be and would advertise itself as, with the numerous people experiencing iffy matchmaking constants. There is no "proof" that they do this -- which I've said before -- and there's none that they don't... ...except, when you think about how the human reward system functions, it becomes a lot more logical. There is a basic, basic function most humankind has that I don't: the systematic feedback loop and satisfaction of effort and reward.

haaaaaaalp1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitsuné Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ecpi6pz3,comment-id=00090000000000000002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T04:01:42.895+0000)

and supposedly I'd have to come up with the system they use to know it's results or have any validity in their say?

Go. Away.

Well no shit if you are claiming that riot is magically enforcing a 50% winrate on everyone, the least you should be doing is creating a model that shows what you claim is even possible. If you can't even do that, then you have no ground to stand on.

We have models which can create fast, fair, and unbiased games like the elo model. We have models which can create fast, unfair, and unbaised games like the old customs game model. We have models which can create fast, fair, altough somewhat biased models such as the trueskill models. We don't have any models which can create fast games which unfairly enforce a 50% winrate for all players in a 5v5 game along with all of the other factors we see in league. If you are claiming that riot is doing that, you should at least come up with a model for which that framework is even possible.

haaaaaaalp1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitsuné Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ecpi6pz3,comment-id=00090000000000000002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T04:01:42.895+0000)

Who says the system isn't based off the Elo matchmaking system, hmm? Who says it doesn't adjust the MMR of people you fight very loosely because the game has few people left? Who says it's not a case where they take higher-tier players and place them against lower-tier ones to enforce one of the most base and primal reward systems found in nature?

The idea is that, at this point, it can't be as fair as it should be and would advertise itself as, with the numerous people experiencing iffy matchmaking constants. There is no "proof" that they do this, because it's just theory -- which I've said before -- and there's none that they don't, if you think about it knowing how the human psyche functions.

So if your issue is that the system is unfair, I have no problem with that. Games can be unfair because the playerbase is shrinking and therefore the skillgap between players in every game is getting larger. Games can be unfair because the meta is too snowbally. Games can be unfair because there are too many smurfs or boosters. If you want to claim that any one of those factors is making the game too unfair, then that is a matter of opinion and I will not definitively say any of those are wrong.

However, the key distinction to realize is that all of the ways that matchmaking can be unfair would unfairly give players winrates which are too high or too low. None of them can unfairly enforce a 50% winrate. This is where the discussion changes from what is riot doing to is the accusation even mathematically possible. I don't really have problem with the stuff you say in your original post, I do have a problem with the later post where you brought up people who think riot is unfairly enforcing a 50% winrate and that is the post I responded to. Those people are accusing riot of doing something which is virtually impossible and should never be taken seriously.

BigFBear3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitsuné Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ecpi6pz3,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-23T11:59:49.275+0000)

I cannot emphasize this any more; THERE ARE MANY, MANY PEOPLE SAYING THE GAME FORCES A 50% WINRATE... and Riot has presented no proof -- no source code, nothing -- to prove it wrong.

Ye but this is bullshit. People don't understand that winrate goes to 50% the closer you come to your skill-cap. Ofcourse it does. Everything else would be unrealistic. Imagine you would always have a 60% winrate. You would be Challenger after a few weeks. But not everyone is good enough for Challenger. When i start my Smurf Account i had a 80% winrate in Silver/Gold then 70% in Gold/Plat and finally 60% in high Plat and now 50% in Low Dia. Do i cry now "OMG!! Riot forced 50% winrate!!" No. I am 50% because I play vs people now who are as good (or bad) as I am. A few weeks ago someone here on boards posted an Account from a Grandmaster Player who played his MMR intentionally into Iron Tier in Pre-Season and then when S9 started, he played 100+ games or so from Iron to Dia MMR without a SINGLE lose! He had 100% winrate in over 100 games with Twitch. I also think Matchmaking is shit this season because of uneven teams (more than normal) which leads to coinflip games but I don't think there is some forced winrate.

Also Riot would never share their matchmaking algorithm because people could exploit it then. Some dude in the past found out how their old algorithm worked and they immediately changed it because of that.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

People already exploit the matchmaking to the N'th degree. Do you think that's a justified reason for not showing any of it's source code to people, even if it's just the numbers and where they go?

People already abuse broken B.S only ever good against low-rank people. People already get to ranks they don't deserve via the meta. People already trade LP at a gain. They already abuse the system as far as the abuse will take them. Showing us how and why we're placed as we are, with who we are, will at worst allow people to predict who they fight next (in an extreme case.)

aaaustindestroy12 votes

Source code is a very, very valuable piece of information for a video game company, because if they release that source code, another company can use that source code for free. That is, quite obviously, NOT something a company wants.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

A copyright can protect source code, you know. If someone decompiles it and reuses it with so many changes that it can't be claimed a copyright infringement, then there's no issue.

People think both 'open source' and 'source code' mean 'lack of any copyright or right to make money off of it' and that's flat-out wrong.

They would not lose anything by releasing - at the very least - the numbers and maybe a few lines of code to prove to people that it doesn't match them w/ an addiction-based model, but instead does so fairly.

aaaustindestroy11 votes

Copyright doesn't matter when a company uses it for a quick buck. I know source code can have a copyright, but why even risk it? If Company A releases some of their source code and Company B uses it to really quickly cash in on it and make as much money as possible before being taken down, then that's still a loss to Company A.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

{quoted}

Copyright doesn't matter when a company uses it for a quick buck. I know source code can have a copyright, but why even risk it? If Company A releases some of their source code and Company B uses it to really quickly cash in on it and make as much money as possible before being taken down, then that's still a loss to Company A.

but company A can sue company B for all damages and profit made from that source code. That's how copyrighting works; If someone steals it, not only do they pay the damages but they also pay the earnings of the infringement.

aaaustindestroy11 votes

And then - get this - they have to prove that the source code was used. Good luck doing that, unless you're Bethesda vs. the creators of Westworld.

TurboÐonger1 votes

https://ibb.co/tCMb0MK Pls win this game for me almighty god of gods, or pay faker to win this game for me if he can

inferïor jungler1 votes

[deleted]

BigFBear4 votes

I don't know what this have to do with anything? Why are you talking about forced winrate now? Did I say something about that? Fact is that the op is blaming his teammates for his situation, while he is doing poorly.

@ my winrate: I don't know what's so bad about reaching your skill-cap in a game. Of course my winrate becomes around 50% when I reach my skill-cap Elo. And my skill-cap seems to be Low Dia and I am ok with that.

Also... i tried a lot of stuff in terms of Items and runes in Plat1 which lowered my winrate from around 60% to 48% but when I found my actuall build I started climbing again as you can see. Atm back at 51% and rising.

aaaustindestroy11 votes

Okay, so, I was at first skeptical about this post - then I check the op.gg and see he has more CS on Pyke than he does on Teemo. ?????????????????

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

I'm a Support, exclusively. Getting CS with Teemo R's is just proof that they hit creeps and not champions, which is not what I want to happen. Pyke R, it can't not hit creeps if they're within the X (and, even then, Targon Brace allows me the luxury of getting some CS on him.)

The Ecdysiast8 votes

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide

It's supposed to make people who are several leagues above their allies in skill climb... but that only worked fine back in seasons 2-3 when a single player with 20 kills could actually solo carry a game. But with all the work they've been putting in to prevent that, and the way bounties now help you overcome it, the way matchmaking works isn't helpful any more.

Now, when it pits you against better opponents but allies who are on your level in its attempt to help you get with even opponents, the expectation is still for you to carry your team if you deserve to rank up, but that's just not possible.

flibitydoo7 votes

if the game is going to spend 3-5 whole minutes thinking of players to match me with and against, kinda hope they aren't a stomp.

Sir Saltarin6 votes

but when I get chains of garbage ADCs

Hey happens to me aswell, but when I play ADC

Hayaishi25 votes

There's an issue when in 6 games of 10 i played this week there was always AT LEAST ONE feeder. In 6 games out of 10 either one or multiple people got smashed and completely outplayed and then the game was a stomp.

This has been going on since last season, tbh i've no idea what has Riot been doing with matchmaking but it clearly isn't working as well as it should.

HeeroTX2 votes

The sad thing is, based on my experience you should be thankful it was only 6. The biggest insult is that Riot honestly, obviously KNOWS that the game is shit and is actively developing in a direction of accepting it. Rather than improving game QUALITY they decided to go for game QUANTITY. All the recent development decisions have targeted ending games faster so you can move on to the next one. They've even explicitly stated that mantra in some dev notes last year. Riot SHOULD have tried harder to make individual games BETTER, but instead they've just made it so you can finish them faster. To be frank, they should just allow people to leave games and/or dodge, at this point its not worth riding out the 10-15 mins of "endgame" which most people feel often starts at around the 10-15 min. mark.

ı Sona ı4 votes

Not that I haven't experienced spontaneous 'all of a sudden I get on teams with double afkers and rage quitters and yasuos who wont stop pushing mid and feeding mid/jungle till we lose multiple games in a row' moments, but I like to think of the hardest games as a means to teach me to play with more perfection, because the closer I achieve perfection in my own playing the better I can carry the impossible seeming games.

Monlyth2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ı Sona ı,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ecpi6pz3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-23T04:00:26.781+0000)

Not that I haven't experienced spontaneous 'all of a sudden I get on teams with double afkers and rage quitters and yasuos who wont stop pushing mid and feeding mid/jungle till we lose multiple games in a row' moments, but I like to think of the hardest games as a means to teach me to play with more perfection, because the closer I achieve perfection in my own playing the better I can carry the impossible seeming games.

I agree with this sentiment. I think it's important to have a few games where you face some serious adversity. Those are the games that really show where your weaknesses lie, and force you to play better.

OrangeMarine2 votes

{quoted}

I agree with this sentiment. I think it's important to have a few games where you face some serious adversity. Those are the games that really show where your weaknesses lie, and force you to play better.

yeah my weakness sure is Braum Vayne going 0/10 by 15 mins.

Really teaches me how to improve my gameplay.

At best (as jungle) I can babysit these feeders and play a 3v2 lane.

also another good scenario, if their jungle comes too, we can all die and thye will surely /ff

Boatwhistle5 votes

For a support main an incompetent ADC can make a huge difference. What do I do if they wont grab the lantern or react to my pings? What do I do if they don't follow up on my hooks? What do I do if the rest of my team wont work with me now cause they are thinking "those bots laners are awful" when its just the person auto filled ADC. Theres the ADC that plays champs like yasuo, zed, and darius and think they are way better then they are only to find that adcs don't have nearly as much to fall back on without their support which they don't work with effectively cause they are used to not needing much help.

Light Burner2 votes

{quoted}

For a support main an incompetent ADC can make a huge difference. What do I do if they wont grab the lantern or react to my pings? What do I do if they don't follow up on my hooks? What do I do if the rest of my team wont work with me now cause they are thinking "those bots laners are awful" when its just the person auto filled ADC. Theres the ADC that plays champs like yasuo, zed, and darius and think they are way better then they are only to find that adcs don't have nearly as much to fall back on without their support which they don't work with effectively cause they are used to not needing much help.

The same can be said as an adc against the supports who do shit in lane give away kill pressure when you have an advantage and play safe when they can/should be playing aggressive. Do you know how many supports i watch force their adcs to 1v2 on the level 2 power spike because the support doesnt know they win a fight by hitting level 2 first?

Ambitious Minnow1 votes

{quoted}

For a support main an incompetent ADC can make a huge difference. What do I do if they wont grab the lantern or react to my pings? What do I do if they don't follow up on my hooks? What do I do if the rest of my team wont work with me now cause they are thinking "those bots laners are awful" when its just the person auto filled ADC. Theres the ADC that plays champs like yasuo, zed, and darius and think they are way better then they are only to find that adcs don't have nearly as much to fall back on without their support which they don't work with effectively cause they are used to not needing much help.

"Grab the fucking lantern!"

GodlyBane4 votes

only person on my team with a positive kda just a few games ago. Call me a kda player but NOTHING affects the game more then someoen dying 5+ times and you cant fucking change my mind, even tho i have studied this games macro over a fucking year of spamming draft and trying to improve, i genuinely belive that yes, fucking deaths are what impact the game the most. Whats one death? 300 gold. death timer. loss of money. loss of xp. team morale down. tilt up. Dont fucking die people. not in my games anyway fuckign please

General Esdeath 4 votes

I want to know why in my promos/series do I get paired with people who are on big losing streaks and become toxic.

I have the average "toxic" player in most of my games, but I'm talking full out "this man gonna be banned by next week" toxic. Tilting after 1 gank, giving up after 1 death, I even had someone who kept disconnecting.

If someone hits 100 LP they should just be promoted. To staple shitty players on top of that is just ridiculous.

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