Core Gameplay: A quick look at a few teams at Riot and some of the stuff they're working on

RiotMeddler··84 votes·36,722 views

Hi folks,

Following on from a couple of longer posts on Juggernauts recently I thought I'd try some longer posts on some other subjects as well. First of those is below, which is a quick look at a part of Riot called Core Gameplay, for anyone interested in a mixture of how some of Riot works and what that part's working on. Core Gameplay's focus is on the components of LoL that drive choices within the game itself (champions, items, minions, map layout etc). Core Gameplay's composed of four teams that deliver different sorts of projects, plus a playtesting team that provides advice and expertise.

There's quite a bit of overlap between the work the teams below tackle (all of them were contributors to the recent Death Recap fixes for example). Each team is primarily focused on a specific type of work though and is staffed with people who have expertise in that area.

The Live Gameplay Team (also referred to as the balance team)

  • Live Gameplay's focus is on regular changes, usually quicker and smaller than those from other teams. Balance changes are the most common thing the team works on, though they're also involved in other work (e.g. long term game health. provision of expertise on high level play to other teams, some new content creation). Also worth calling out that while Live Gameplay does more balance work than the other teams they're not solely responsible for the balance of the game.

  • Recent examples of Live Gameplay's work include heaps of champion balance changes, the addition and tuning of Zeke's Herald, mastery tweaking.

  • Live Gameplay's just finished working on patch 5.18. Because 5.18 is the patch the World Champs will be played on changes in it focused on balance changes for high level play, generally on a pretty small scale. Now that that patch is out of the way Live Gameplay's shifting focus to work on a mixture of some stuff for the preseason patch late this year and balance changes for 5.19 (including possible MF buffs and a bug fix on Shen's E where it's not reducing damage from taunted enemies). .

**The Systems Team **

  • Systems focuses on long term work, looking particularly at the parts of LoL that aren't champions (items, runes, the jungle, minions, summoner spells, gold income etc). That work tends to get released in large amounts every so often (e.g. preseason, or big patches like 5.16), rather than being present in every patch.

  • Recent examples of Systems work includes the AP item adjustments, new Juggernaut items (Dead Man's Plate, Titanic Hydra, Sterak's Gage), items for the Bilgewater event (in conjunction with the Events team).

  • Systems has been primarily working on preseason work for a bit now, and will continue to do so for quite a while (post preseason launch they'll swap over to preseason followup, with balance adjustments as needed and possibly some additional content afterwards if there are things that don't make the preseason itself). A lot of the team's work has been on items recently (marksmen items especially). They've also been exploring some other stuff that preseason's the best time to do (e.g. can we speed up game start a bit by having minions/the jungle spawn earlier, while speeding up the homeguard effect out of base to keep invade timings the same?).

The Champion Team

  • The new champion team primarily makes new champions as you'd expect, while also doing a bit of other work as well (initial balance follow up on new releases, overhauls of champion systems like death recap etc).

  • Recent examples of Champion work include Tahm Kench, Tahm Kench's teaser and the balance changes to him in the first couple of patches after his release (in discussion with the Live Gameplay team of course).

  • At present we've got half a dozen champions in development (which is pretty standard). Those range from the nearly finished that are getting final work done before they hit PBE ('They are coming') to really early idea brainstorming (we've just kicked off work on a new champ for sometime next year, with so far just desired class, plus some possible tonal and thematic notes, identified). Champion team's also working on some improvements to what we call 'zombie mode', which is the state dead, but still acting, champions get put into (e.g. Karthus passive or Yorick ult). That work, whenever it ships, won't be very noticeable in the average game, but should fix a number of bugs and make it easier for us to create additional characters that use zombie mode if desired.

The Champion Update Team

  • Champion Update works on existing characters in the game that need more work than just balance adjustments. That work ranges from full overhauls like Sion, to visual only updates like Karthus, to smaller projects like Ashe or Maokai's changes a while back.

  • Recent examples of Champion Update's work include the Gangplank update, the Juggernaut changes and Fiora's update.

  • Champion update's got a few different things going on at the moment. One part of the team's just finished some balance follow up work on the juggernauts from the 5.16 patch (teams own balance on content they create for a couple of patches post launch on average, before the Live Gameplay team takes over). Those folks will be pretty focused on some work for the preseason period now. Another part of the team by contrast's working on bigger, longer term reworks (Poppy, and some exploration into which other full scale relaunch might follow her). Finally Champ Up's also looking into doing a sizing pass on a number of champions, which would involve shrinking champions that are inappropriately large (e.g. Tristana) and increasing the size of champions that are inappropriately small (e.g. Malphite).

173 Comments

Malicious Metal75 votes

Don't tell me you're done with Morde...

Mordepool9 votes

Has to be lots more work on Mordekaiser. There has to be

A Superb Villain28 votes

Mordekaiser is the new Cassiopeia

Malicious Metal32 votes

Nooooooo!

Hyrum Graff18 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaTRYTYO,comment-id=000900020000,timestamp=2015-09-14T21:02:08.003+0000)

Nooooooo!

You mean, Nooooooooooooooo!

Wind Whistler6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaTRYTYO,comment-id=0009000200000000,timestamp=2015-09-14T21:24:17.171+0000)

You mean, Nooooooooooooooo!

Best website ever.

Penta Penguin1 votes

What exactly is wrong with Cassiopeia?

A Superb Villain3 votes

{quoted}

What exactly is wrong with Cassiopeia?

Oh boy... I am going to just stand aside and let more qualified players answer your question.

RiotMeddler16 votes

The above's just a sampling of stuff in progress, not a complete list. As far as Morde goes we want to see what effect the 5.18 changes have before working on additional changes.

Malicious Metal20 votes

What will these changes accomplish other than nerfing him? Seriously, there IS an underlying problem in his kit, and frankly it's the only thing making him able to compete with traditional Marksmen. His W is such an unfair mechanic and makes for pretty unhealthy design since it basically makes him get ahead for free, this gimmick being the band aid holding this train wreck of a rework together. He succeeds in bot simply by gaining levels faster and stomping the opposition with the help of a support. Heck, you mentioned you thought Morde would never be healthy solo so you decided to force him bot, where, who would have thought, he manages to make the game a living hell for two people instead of one.

If he relies so heavily on artificially getting ahead I'd rather not see him succeed in duo lanes since it's unfun, unhealthy and unfair. It's a testament on how much free crap you have to give him to do his job. His weaknesses are SO glaring that his solo lane's utter trash but paired with a support who can rid him of his flaws he becomes unstoppable.

"Seeing how the 5.18 changes affect him", if that implies wanting to leave this abomination alone I'd better be selling my tickets to worlds because this is not a game I'd want to support if you're too blind to see that what you created was a thousand times worse than the old Mordekaiser. He deserves a second shot at a rework, I know your resources are limited and you would rather focus on other reworks but don't let Mordekaiser become the new Cassiopeia! He's flawed by design and requires intensive care in order to become a healthy juggernaut. The others can be tweaked in terms of numbers since they all have kits that synergy well with itself, have their strengths and weaknesses and are ACTUALLY balanced as champions and not in a gimped niche in mind. Heck, you can tweak Morde's numbers as much as you want, he'll always suck solo but become a beast with a support, hovering in an endless state of limbo between being OP or UP since you simply can't make him fair and balanced without completely going against your notion of making his duo lane the position you want him in. In retrospect making him a top or mid laner would have been better since his Q completely obliterates squishy marksmen but up in the island called top there are champions able to go toe to toe with him, migrating his devastating Q.

//sorry for the rant but it simply pains me what you're doing to my favorite champion//

Riot; Your sickness sustains me!... Mordekaiser That's my line!!

Prospector Pete37 votes

summoner 13

Linna Excel13 votes

You forgot to include the work details of the aptly named Team that is not apearing in this thread

Also, tell the champion team to finish Ao Shin already.

RiotMeddler13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaTRYTYO,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-09-14T20:02:31.663+0000)

You forgot to include the work details of the aptly named Team that is not apearing in this thread

Not sure which team you're referring to sorry, there are a lot of teams the above doesn't cover (skins, social and player behavior, esports, PVPnet client etc to name a few).

Solidair35 votes

Ooh, tell us about the PVPnet client team.

Linna Excel10 votes

It was a Monty Python and the Holy Grail reference. ;)

RiotMeddler11 votes

Doh, my bad, it's been a long time since I watched that.

Solidair312 votes

Meddler, you're makin me nervous.

Taric no longer guaranteed to follow Poppy? I thought work on him was going well D:

I guess I shouldn't say guaranteed... but you guys have been working on him for sooooooo long, I would think he would almost HAVE to be next.

Nahara4 votes

I really want the Taric rework... I want it so badly, since he's such a cool champ with a lot of wasted potential right now...

Voluug132 votes

I dont.

Because I fear his rework might push him into support role exclusively, deleting his top/jg.

Often Nonplussed4 votes

Taric was always a tanky support though. His alternative roles are the result of exploration and innovation. The same kinds exploration will continue to take place after his update Taric...whenever that is.

OverpoweredSoap1 votes

{quoted}

Meddler, you're makin me nervous.

Taric no longer guaranteed to follow Poppy? I thought work on him was going well D:

I guess I shouldn't say guaranteed... but you guys have been working on him for sooooooo long, I would think he would almost HAVE to be next.

The last I remember, a Rioter said he was coming early next year, at the earliest

Solidair32 votes

Yes, but Meddler just said the team is deciding which BIG relaunch comes after Poppy. Poppy is supposed to come out at the end of the year, so if they're deciding who it might be... it might not be taric, anymore.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but Meddler just said the team is deciding which BIG relaunch comes after Poppy. Poppy is supposed to come out at the end of the year, so if they're deciding who it might be... it might not be taric, anymore.

I could care less about Poppy. I've never been attracted to her kit, lore or archetype. I find Taric much more engaging now, and would love to see his rework.

Solidair34 votes

But maybe that's why she needs an update the most: she's really unappealing. Like old Sion. Taric will get his turn sooner rather than later, but even I, someone who isn't fond of poppy at all (I don't even own her), will concede that she needs it even more than him.

RiotMeddler15 votes

Taric's a strong possibility for the relaunch spot after Poppy. That's dependent on us hitting on the right way to redo Taric though, his visual appearance in particular. If that's not coming together we'll swap to a different champ for that spot.

Solidair36 votes

So you're saying I have to bribe the Parrot, eh?

Alright, then it shall be done.

ExecutorDill2 votes

What about my Shen? I have questions:

  1. Who in particular is working on him?
  2. How close can we expect the rework? (Sometime after worlds? Year end? Early next year?)
  3. How big of a change is his passive getting? (I know it's subsceptible to change because of W change and i think it will be significant because of the synergy they currently share)
  4. Will shen strengths/weaknesses remain the same? If not what s/w are you guys implementing on him? If so, will their be additional s/w given that he didn't have before?
  5. Will shen's lore be updated?
TacoTheKitten3 votes

AS LONG AS YOU KEEP HIS FAMOUS QUOTE "Gems are outrageous. Truly, truly, truly outrageous." Whatever you do, please don't remove that line.

Ecodeath7 votes

why certainlyt on 2 teams

FattyDrake16 votes

Because he has multiple passives.

Ignis07 votes

Hey, Meddler, can we get some what of an in depth post revolving around champion/item updates. Would like to know what Riot plans to do with champs that have never been viable Quinn Galio items that are no longer viable at all item 3075 . Also updates about what the team is thinking about with the reworks for Yorick Poppy Taric .

SteelStallion22 votes

Galio has never been viable?

Hi, Diamond Galio main here. Galio is terrific and very, very powerful and very, very underrated. Galio is very viable and not just against full AP comps for that matter.

Thornmail is still decent in some situations. It's very powerful on Rammus (another underrated champion, boosted by the recent items like Dead Man's).

Quinn is also viable, for that matter. She's not amazing, but she has her uses. I'm much more loath to have something like a Yorick on the team than Quinn.

Hyrum Graff5 votes

{quoted}

Galio has never been viable?

Hi, Diamond Galio main here. Galio is terrific and very, very powerful and very, very underrated. Galio is very viable and not just against full AP comps for that matter.

Thornmail is still decent in some situations. It's very powerful on Rammus (another underrated champion, boosted by the recent items like Dead Man's).

Quinn is also viable, for that matter. She's not amazing, but she has her uses. I'm much more loath to have something like a Yorick on the team than Quinn.

Yeah, Gallio mains with 125+ games on him have an absolutely absurd win rate in plat+, according to champion.gg. It's just that his mastery curve, kind of like Azir's, sucks moose juice, but for different reasons he isn't as good in pro play.

SteelStallion5 votes

I think the main complaint in the competitive scene is that his ultimate is very easy to interrupt. But competitive play is different from normal play, some people always seem to forget about this.

And anyway, I disagree with that sentiment. You just have to have good awareness of the opponents' abilities and know exactly who can interrupt you and when. It takes some practice and it means playing Galio at higher levels has a deceptively high difficulty curve, but especially with the recent tenacity changes it is actually not that hard to land team fight winning ultimates if you are good at the champion.

I also think he's a very mobile, very durable poker even without his ultimate. W yourself, E a path into the enemy line, get close to land your Q on your priority targets and ride your E back to safety. If the enemy initiates on you, that's good, as you are usually very tanky from W healing if you have AP (full Tank Galio is a noob trap. NEVER build full Tank Galio. AP = tankiness because your W heal scales with AP.), and can then counter initiate with your ultimate, absorbing enemy nukes and allowing your team to clean up.

He's very underrated imo, and very underplayed. Out of all of the underplayed odd balls (Urgot, Yorick, Zilean, Zyra...) I think Galio is the least deserving of his unpopularity. He is ridiculously powerful. But I'm quite happy that he is a hipster pick. People always underestimate him and people aren't used to playing against a competent Galio and it tends to catch them off guard and makes it easier :) .

ShadowParker5 votes

Galio is honestly fine. Just because you don't seem him played much doesn't imply that he's not "viable".

Chespin20135 votes

Can we get some updates on when Fiddlesticks WarwickUrgot Yorick will get some updates? Some of these champions need just a rework in general. Warwick and Yorrick in particular I think should get a Sion level rework where. Whereas Fiddlesticks and Urgot probably need more of a GP or a Fiora level kind.

zaroyallord4 votes

I really hope that Riot is doing some work on Yorick, for he is arguably the most toxic champion in the game and even had the honor to be removed from Free Week. He has sooo much potential, especially as we saw with Xelnath's kits. I really hope you guys aren't forgetting the gravedigger! Yorick Yorick Yorick

DrCyanide2 votes

Honestly, seeing Yorick thrown aside like he is bugs me. A lot. Every other champion Riot thinks is a problem (and many that aren't that big of a problem but are slightly stale) get changes. But Yorick can't get anything?

Lets play a game. Lets guess how many times Skarner can get reworked in the time it takes for Riot to do anything about Yorick.

kile1472 votes

Vladimir, who they admit is a problematic champ, even gets buffs...

TBakes4 votes

I love to see Rioters posting on Boards. I wish I had the time and money to make a documentary about Riot so people could really see everything that goes on behind the scenes of a game like League.

summoner 31

markiepie4 votes

Can there be a follow up on the retexturing of champions by the ChampUp team? Base and Wildfire Zyra looks so washed out compared to their concept art. They don't fit the new map as much as the one before which is why I've only been using Haunted Zyra.

DJ Di03 votes

For the Sizing pass, will only base models be looked at, or skins as well?

An example of skins that are a bit awkward size-wise include Baron Von Veigar and DJ Sona (her actual model, her instrument is fine) being a bit too small, while Battlecast Kog'Maw is a bit too big.

RiotMeddler6 votes

Plan is to look at skins as well, adjust outliers like Battlecast Kog to match the champ's base size.

D2Vincent4 votes

so does that mean we might get a Phantom Karthus splash that actually looks like his skin? :P

RiotQuquroon9 votes

Skins too. As a whole, the character should be sized appropriately to the base, with a few exceptions. Things like... Monarch Kog'Maw will always be larger than his base, due to the wings. Probably could stand to make it a little smaller.

But yeah, we're looking into the problem children. My favorite to poke at is Marquis Vladimir- he's so tiny! For something like DJ Sona, the idea is that the entire champion is appropriately sized, not just the human model. We can't do appropriate sizing (it just doesn't work as a game), so we're aiming for relative. Yordles will be larger in our game than they would in reality, Sona will be smaller (due to her etwahl), Malphite will be drastically smaller, etc.

A TwistedStraka6 votes

Can we get a featured game mode that involves appropriate sizing over relative sizing?

Lugg3 votes

Thanks for the information. It's nice to see how things work behind the scenes.

I do think that you guys need to move resources from The Champion Team to The Champion Update Team. While everyone loves seeing new champions and it is a great money maker for the company, there are so many current champions that need rework. I think that by shifting focus, you will be making the loyal long term players much happier, which actually leads to more money in the long run.

I don't think you guys should release a new champion sooner than every 3 months considering how much work has to go into new champions. This will lead to better champions that need less work after release.

Dfenestrator3 votes

This may just be my personal opinion, but it would also be nice to learn some of the Rioters' names who work in these teams and which of them would be willing to interact with us on the boards if we tag them in our threads. That way, we can try to reach out to the right people with our questions and discussions about certain topics. As it stands, it's a bit of a guessing and hoping game; we shout out to the people we think are involved, and then hope we're right and they'll respond.

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