With the proposed cannon minion change, the stated goal is to make games more snowbally.
Games are already insanely snowbally.
I don't want to quit League but i actually might, not gonna lie. I don't have fun in like 80% of my games as it is.
RiotRiotRepertoir23 votesFeels like there's some false advertisement going on here.
The stated goal is to make contesting and fighting your opponent in lane more valuable and available. An accepted risk point is that this could cause lane matchups to be more snowbally. At the same time, a hopeful benefit is that players that want to express their individual skill over their lane opponent now have more opportunities to do so because there are predictable, important times in the minion formations where their opponent feels more compelled to expose themselves to risk.
Ahri Inari1 votesThanks for giving us more individual skill expression I appreciate :)
Khristophoros3 votesFeels like there's some false advertisement going on here.
The stated goal is to make contesting and fighting your opponent in lane more valuable and available. An accepted risk point is that this could cause lane matchups to be more snowbally. At the same time, a hopeful benefit is that players that want to express their individual skill over their lane opponent now have more opportunities to do so because there are predictable, important times in the minion formations where their opponent feels more compelled to expose themselves to risk.
Fair enough. I was also tilted while I posted this thread. I keep having games where some assassin pops off and snowballs off of a few early misteps by somebody on my team. Right now my MMR in normals is pretty tanked so it might be that but I think the game is currently too volatile.
I don't like that you apparently don't find it to be a big deal. Like you're calling it an "accepted risk". I think it would make the game more fun and less toxic if you cared more about volatility and hard snowballing.
IDK I think my issue stems from the fact that a lot of champions are designed to depend on snowballing. Like give Draven 1 kill early and you're gonna have to seriously respect him for a while. But if he doesn't get a kill early he has trouble making an impact. Get camped mid against a Zed and he can easily snowball off 1-2 ganks. Then get raged at by your jungler who didn't care to help out.
Volatility is toxic.
Ahri Inari3 votesThe problem is this view point isn't that much one sided. It's just that most people on NA board do like longer games.
Khristophoros4 votes[{quoted}](name=Ahri Inari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZPoEudz,comment-id=000800010000,timestamp=2018-03-29T02:53:47.834+0000)
The problem is this view point isn't that much one sided. It's just that most people on NA board do like longer games.
It's not an issue of game length for me. I just don't like how a lot of games snowball off of a few early plays.
And the prospect of lane matchups becoming more extreme is terrifying because it's already common to fall behind insanely far off one gank that forces you to miss a shitload of CS or creates an opportunity for the opponent to freeze at a good time for them.
Like wave timing is already insanely important.
Flemman1 votesteemo blinding dart during canon minion last hit best strat ever [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
What Is Smite4 votesFeels like there's some false advertisement going on here.
The stated goal is to make contesting and fighting your opponent in lane more valuable and available. An accepted risk point is that this could cause lane matchups to be more snowbally. At the same time, a hopeful benefit is that players that want to express their individual skill over their lane opponent now have more opportunities to do so because there are predictable, important times in the minion formations where their opponent feels more compelled to expose themselves to risk.
Just want to ask, do you guys ever look back at previous seasons and try to figure out why the old balance team did the things they did? I mean back in season 3 lanes were so snowbally to the point that once someone got ahead nobody on your team could do anything to stop them. Renekton got ahead? Say good-bye to your tier 2 tower before bot even takes their own, and don't worry your jungler can't do anything to help you out either. It feels like every change you guys are making to the game are unguided guesses as to what might fix this shithole you've dragged yourselves into. I'm not trying to be rude but you guys are just running around with your heads cut off, with no clue as to what is the correct choice to make.
Sasogwa1 votes[{quoted}](name=What Is Smite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZPoEudz,comment-id=00080003,timestamp=2018-03-29T04:45:01.883+0000)
Just want to ask, do you guys ever look back at previous seasons and try to figure out why the old balance team did the things they did? I mean back in season 3 lanes were so snowbally to the point that once someone got ahead nobody on your team could do anything to stop them. Renekton got ahead? Say good-bye to your tier 2 tower before bot even takes their own, and don't worry your jungler can't do anything to help you out either. It feels like every change you guys are making to the game are unguided guesses as to what might fix this shithole you've dragged yourselves into. I'm not trying to be rude but you guys are just running around with your heads cut off, with no clue as to what is the correct choice to make.
Yet Season 3 felt better than current season and there are no easy choices for balance, you don't satisfy everyone, you try to minimise the unsatisfaction of people
What Is Smite1 votesYet Season 3 felt better than current season and there are no easy choices for balance, you don't satisfy everyone, you try to minimise the unsatisfaction of people
For me it was season 4 that was the best season for League, there was a wide array of junglers to choose from since Spirit Stone gave back 8% damage dealt to jungle mobs as HP and 4% as mana, while every lane had equal agency in how the game would end up. You wouldn't have issues where supports were too overpowered and mitigate your entire damage combo's, ADC's still needed 3 items to reach their lategame and the items weren't cheap either, Mid-laners could roam top or bottom and make plays and take objectives off of those plays, Top wasn't treated like an island the champion picks in that lane would have great influence in teamfights, and junglers wouldn't need to be so gank reliant to get their powerspikes because the jungle respawned fast enough to where they could keep up in lvls.
That to me was one of the most balanced times in League.
DrLuau1 votesFeels like there's some false advertisement going on here.
The stated goal is to make contesting and fighting your opponent in lane more valuable and available. An accepted risk point is that this could cause lane matchups to be more snowbally. At the same time, a hopeful benefit is that players that want to express their individual skill over their lane opponent now have more opportunities to do so because there are predictable, important times in the minion formations where their opponent feels more compelled to expose themselves to risk.
If every matchup were a skill matchup, giving lane objectives more oomph would make lanes more interesting. But, at the same time Riot's also said they want matchups to matter more than they have been, and cited these very changes as being a catalyst for making matchups and champ picks more meaningful. Is the tail wagging the dog at Riot HQ? It really seems like the various gameplay departments have minimal knowledge of what the other departments are doing or saying.
Cavesloth3 votesFeels like there's some false advertisement going on here.
The stated goal is to make contesting and fighting your opponent in lane more valuable and available. An accepted risk point is that this could cause lane matchups to be more snowbally. At the same time, a hopeful benefit is that players that want to express their individual skill over their lane opponent now have more opportunities to do so because there are predictable, important times in the minion formations where their opponent feels more compelled to expose themselves to risk.
Given that snowballing has made the game felt like shit for more than 3 months, and you guys are just now addressing it and you even admit that this change may make the problem worse, doesn't exactly inspire confidence guys know what you are doing or have the ability to recognize SERIOUS problems until you've been screamed at for extent periods of time or had famous streamers having serious hissy fits to see the writing that's clearly on the wall for anyone who plays the game.
I appreciate game balance can be difficult, I was a modder for BF1942, and things we did to balance maps didn't always go how we planned, but geezus, the game has needed major changes since the season started to make losses not feel like being forced to eat your own excrement for 15 minutes before your team realizes that OMG we're down 20 kills and 10 objectives, we should surrender.
I mean for gods sake there's been calls for a surrender at 10 that have reached the front page here that are being taken seriously.
Another guy has admitted afking to force a surrender vote in another thread because his team wouldn't surrender and since comebacks are basically impossible there is no point in trying, and instead of storm of downvotes and backlash like they'd get in any other season, people are admitting maybe the guy has a point, and others even stating its better to AFK and play on another account than keep trying on a clear loss, and they've been upvoted as well.
How clear does the problem need to be for you to say hey, sorry league fans, we fucked up hard this season, we're gonna do our best to fix it, instead of this wishywashy, "Oh hey we've noticed this might be a problem, we're thinking about how to fix it and we'll get to in a couple patches or so... maybe".
Xonra5 votesIt really feels like balance is done in a vacuum these days. That's all I am gonna say, otherwise I'll just rant.
Blåbæret2 votesIf you want to add skill expression back into the game, then what about you reverting these dumb ass changes you've made throughout the two last seasons instead of adding fuel to the fire like you're doing now?
I'm sorry my man, I'm just tired of your balance team. They're not doing the game any favors. Wouldn't be surprised if this game is close to dead in 1-2 years. The balance team is legit anti-fun.
nelogis1 votesSo as far as I understand, this will make it so just clearing waves and ignoring the opponent will be harder?
I'm not trying to sound disrespectful or anything but don't you think that this will make the jungler even stronger (especially in the mid lane)?
The first thing I ask myself when I see the change is "WHY do people actually do that?" Why don't they interact with the opponent more?
Is it because they WANT to not do anything other than push waves until laning phase is over? Highly unlikely, this isn't an engaging, interesting nor fun way to play the game.
So it's not that they don't want to, lets go a bit further and think about what happens WHEN they do it.
"Viktor is in the middle of the lane trying to poke out Ahri that just used her spells to clear the wave, so naturally he steps up a bit to do so. It was very successful, Ahri has lost 30% of her HP with very little retaliation on Viktor, Sejuani is here.... wait what? Yes Sejuani is here, Viktor is dead"
Could it be that they simply just can't do it? Because as soon as they interact with the opponent they just die.
Now this is an extreme situation yeah but generally speaking this may just be the reason why interacting with your opponent is just not worth the risk.
So reducing the Junglers presence and his power might be the solution. I'm not saying nerf them to the ground, they can have better scaling if their early game is nerfed but getting them out of lanes or making their ganks less powerful may be a way to approach this issue.
This could also solve the solo-carrying problem people are having. For you to be able to solo carry as a solo laner you don't need to win a 1 v 1, you need to be able to 2 v 1 the enemy solo laner and the enemy jungler. Now this isn't something new, the jungler existed for a long ass time but what changed is the junglers power in the early game to shut down these leads the solo laner can use to solo carry (There are other reasons why solo carrying got a lot harder but this is another topic we aren't discussing right now, unless you want to of course)
I just really don't think FORCING them to interact more is the play here. This would be a temporary solution to a permanent problem and these rarely work out well.
Prime example: 
and 
Of course there are other factors like that mana isn't even a thing anymore. You weren't able to just push the wave all day, if you did you were OOM in like 4 - 5 waves.
Edit: I know you have plans to reduce jungle power/presence in the early game but then this change would be double dipping which would result in late game oriented champions getting a huge nerf and all sorts of collateral damage (if the jungle changes go through that is).
GigglesO1 votesSo forcing us to fight over an already limited gold income that was the only reason we were already fighting is somehow going to fix the issue?
Let’s be honest if it wasn’t for the minion gold I’d already be afk under tower for conditioning to activate at 10 minutes.
If you want players to fight more deload kills in exp and gold so that it doesn’t make the game feel unwinnable after 1 death.
Sure it devalues early game aggression, but we don’t need as much as we currently have.
5050BS1 votesQFT
One death in the first 5m of the game and when that player gets back into lane, the enemy is +2 levels.... If the Enemy was lvl 6 they have ~20s and their ult is back up to kill you again.
So Ether you hide under turret not farming and spam ping assist or spam ping MIA.
This is in part why I changed to playing Fizz mid because no mater what I can farm with ease if Im ahead or behind. Mages are hurt a TON in farming because it cost so much mana and then under turret you cant farm vs the turret.
SilentBomber2 votesFeels like there's some false advertisement going on here.
The stated goal is to make contesting and fighting your opponent in lane more valuable and available. An accepted risk point is that this could cause lane matchups to be more snowbally. At the same time, a hopeful benefit is that players that want to express their individual skill over their lane opponent now have more opportunities to do so because there are predictable, important times in the minion formations where their opponent feels more compelled to expose themselves to risk.
Yet ranged champions will have a strong advantage vs melee.Because,the moment a melee goes for a cannon minion he will get punished from that gnar,Kayle or whatever.
With those changes you'll make players feel discouraged into playing top lane because it will be easier to lose if they get counter picked!Moreover,junglers will be able to gank more effectively top lane because they will know when you will try to go for that cannon minion.If a top laner stays under his tower while enemy's Heimer denies him the cannon minion with his turrets the game will be one sided.Thus,there is no skill there.
Lastly,Tanks going Banner of command as first item will also have an easier time to push when the cannon minion gets buffed by its active.
Poske1 votesFeels like there's some false advertisement going on here.
The stated goal is to make contesting and fighting your opponent in lane more valuable and available. An accepted risk point is that this could cause lane matchups to be more snowbally. At the same time, a hopeful benefit is that players that want to express their individual skill over their lane opponent now have more opportunities to do so because there are predictable, important times in the minion formations where their opponent feels more compelled to expose themselves to risk.
This changes dont make the game more snowbally
Because ussualy team which is behind farms more due to lack of inhibitors / weaker minions
However it buffs ADC class because they scale the most with gold
5050BS1 votesAre you talking about the cannon gold change?
Because all that does is make champs that have a harder time CSing (Immobile mages) get hurt more because they HAVE to get the cannon and the enemy knows this.
Colte18 votesi will freaking uninstall if riot actually makes the situation worse, i'm sick and tired of having to carry 3-4 retards every game and im forced to play overpowered braindead champions that can solo carry and give up on playing a fun champion, i can't have fun like i used to.. it's all about picking the meta and hope your allies aren't disabled glass cannons that melt and feed the entire enemy team until we are forced to lose.
Crett11 votesi have a lot of faith in riot. my faith is tested every day
i.e. reading the cannon minion changes and the context activated my fight or flight response
AquariusGine11 votesWin or lose, 80% of my games do feel like shit to play. I am not bored, the balance team needs to change their philosophy because it becomes irreversible.
Escheton9 votesI'm more concerned about them nerfing 
passive gold generation. This means I won't get any more gold out of laning phase. Nobody ever lets me proc my stacks and the execute is too low come mid-lategame to even blame them for it. It's a struggle.
Bootleg Gay3 votesThe minion changes are aimed at making roaming more risky (less gold in the long run for those that get ahead, more lost if they don't succeed) and making early farming a bit more important.
They're also looking to take away the burn damage on towers from red buff, so as to make sure tower sieging isn't so easy for only 2 people. I really don't think it'll make games snowball anymore than they already do, but could extend the natural average game time an extra 2-3 minutes.
Khristophoros5 votes[{quoted}](name=One Best Gay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZPoEudz,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-28T09:50:51.940+0000)
The minion changes are aimed at making roaming more risky (less gold in the long run for those that get ahead, more lost if they don't succeed) and making early farming a bit more important.
They're also looking to take away the burn damage on towers from red buff, so as to make sure tower sieging isn't so easy for only 2 people. I really don't think it'll make games snowball anymore than they already do, but could extend the natural average game time an extra 2-3 minutes.
They specifically said that the cannon minion change is supposed to make bad lane matchups worse. They want to make it harder to get last hits on cannon minions while under pressure AND also make the cannon minions matter more and other minions matter less.
The Sword Saint1 votesThey specifically mentioned that they want to dial back on the 'push and roam' strategies effectiveness, particularly in the midlane where the dominant champions right now just hard shove and then go gank a side lane.
Snowman Arc3 votesJust spam minion dematerializers on cannon minions. Seems like getting 5 cannons now is worth a kill. Can't pass on that.
Khristophoros5 votes[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZPoEudz,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-03-28T11:15:18.753+0000)
Just spam minion dematerializers on cannon minions. Seems like getting 5 cannons now is worth a kill. Can't pass on that.
If they actually do make that change Minion Dematerializer will be mandatory lmao
SephAgro2 votesYeah I think I'm pretty much done with this game now
LOSINGISMYPRIDE1 votesCannon Minions Base Gold Value increased from 45 to 60 Gold Value Growth per 90 seconds (3 waves) increased from 0.35 to 3 Base Health increased from 828 to 900 Health Growth per 90 seconds (3 waves) increased from 23 to 50 Health Growth per 90 seconds (3 waves) beginning at wave 16 increased from 32 to 60 Health bar size visually increased
Starcraft243ver1 votesWell, go on. Why are you playing a game you do not enjoy ?
Ahri Baka1 votesThe thing is , I like the game to be snowbally , I like it to be faster and shorter , but sadly , it gets to be 1 sided always
Poske1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZPoEudz,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-03-29T13:25:39.140+0000)
The thing is , I like the game to be snowbally , I like it to be faster and shorter , but sadly , it gets to be 1 sided always
Fast paced game has nothing to do with Game lenght duration
What you actually want is fast paced game