There's a reason I stopped with the Mordekaiser threads

Malicious Metal·Jan 16, 2017·95 votes·4,566 views

And it's rather simple at that.

Riot admitted Mordekaiser's rework was a failure and they made him workable in Solo lanes, that's more than most had expected he'd get. He's still riddled with bugs and consistently ranks amongst the lowest performing champions but we WON'T see any changes to him.... Ever.

He's on that list of champions that are being kept weak until their VGU, he's taken Yorick's place. Trashed and kept there on purpose until he gets his due.

You didn't see Yorick players ask for buffs, they knew that their champion was in that spot for a reason. No point in us Mordekaiser players demand some love, even if it's just compensation for the Rylais nerfs.

88 Comments

option paralysisJan 16, 201734 votes

Vlad player says hi.

SpecterVonBarenJan 16, 201711 votes

Give us back Spellvamp, Riot. Your assumption that it was why he was unbalanceable was wrong.

PROJECT KatarìnaJan 16, 20177 votes

Spell vamp was mainly removed because if the item was good vlad would abuse it and be permabanned so it was kept weak for other AP champions because of him, and they wanted him to have more build paths and inherit sustain instead of the same build path.

SpecterVonBarenJan 16, 20175 votes

And as I said when they first announced they were removing spellvamp, why remove an entire stat just to accommodate one champion? Especially when his kit still ended up being nerfed down even without it.

WoonStruckJan 16, 20175 votes

It was never about Vlad, like you said. This is more to everyone else:

Vlad was weak because of spellvamp. It was too good to pass up on him, especially because of his power-curve.

Spellvamp was not weak because of Vlad. Spellvamp was weak/removed because it was too hard to balance because of how variable the potency of the stat was on a champion-to-champion basis. If it was good enough for one AoE mage to buy, every mage would buy it because it offered sustain, which was an extremely strong thing to have in the past. Riot didn't like the idea of mages healing in 300+ HP bursts.

There were a lot of champions that were much more broken than Vlad during the double-WotA (40% spellvamp) era of LoL, which was before Vlad ate most of his nerfs. In other words, Vlad was not even considered broken when he was at his strongest in LoL. It was Kennen, Morg, Brand, Cass, and Swain that were the APs played all around the map at the time.

It Hertz When IPJan 16, 20172 votes

I remember drain-tank Swain. That wasn't fun at ALL....

rtbf221651412Jan 17, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Riot didn't like the idea of mages healing in 300+ HP bursts.

As if ADC's don't get more overtime with lifesteal.

WoonStruckJan 17, 20171 votes

At the time mages dictated fights completely.

Most did pretty obscene AoE burst that nobody could compete with while offering a massive amount of utility over other classes, even tanks/most supports. Tanks and supports were merely engage/peel/heal at the time.

rtbf221651412Jan 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

At the time mages dictated fights completely.

Most did pretty obscene AoE burst that nobody could compete with while offering a massive amount of utility over other classes, even tanks/most supports. Tanks and supports were merely engage/peel/heal at the time.

Is that now?

WoonStruckJan 17, 20171 votes

It was a bit different.

Everything dealt way less damage. Like ridiculously less damage, but a mage could still nuke off 1/3 or more of your life in a poke combo like Ori QW. That was huge back then.

In addition everything was relatively immobile, so the AoE CC and damage that they packed gave them WAY more agency over teamfights than it gives them even now.

rtbf221651412Jan 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It was a bit different.

Everything dealt way less damage. Like ridiculously less damage, but a mage could still nuke off 1/3 or more of your life in a poke combo like Ori QW. That was huge back then.

In addition everything was relatively immobile, so the AoE CC and damage that they packed gave them WAY more agency over teamfights than it gives them even now.

Okay, but is that now? Answer the question.

WoonStruckJan 17, 20171 votes

No, not really.

Tanks offer a different kind of power now, and generally they dictate the pace of fights, not mages.

Mages 100-0 you if you get in range, but you can probably 100-0 them too.

Essentially a nuclear arms race.

Everything can essentially kill anything else, provided they aren't behind, at a moments notice. That's much different than back then.

rtbf221651412Jan 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No, not really.

Tanks offer a different kind of power now, and generally they dictate the pace of fights, not mages.

Mages 100-0 you if you get in range, but you can probably 100-0 them too.

Essentially a nuclear arms race.

Everything can essentially kill anything else, provided they aren't behind, at a moments notice. That's much different than back then.

Okay, so why is spellvamp eliminated when lifesteal is better?

WoonStruckJan 17, 20172 votes

Lifesteal used to be relatively balanced. There were very, very few physical on-hits, and most of them belonged to melee champions.

ADs were generally doing less damage and critting less reliably.

Everything else did less damage, and the game pacing in general was slower.

Lifesteal at that time was balanced. Melee had more viable options for sustain and lifesteal, along with much better HP/armor options. Even high HP regen.

Minions had resistances and less health, which meant less healing off of them.

Practically everything in the game had resistances of some kind they built.

Armor pen wasn't nearly as strong.

Now you have lifesteal procing off of heat-seeking nukes, essentially, and healing 1/4 of someone HP at a time in the worst of cases; sometimes even more depending on champ.

Lifesteal didn't used to be a conceptual problem in the meta. Now lifesteal is for the same reason spellvamp was (runaan's+lifesteal interaction, without any AoE drawbacks).

What REALLY doesn't make sense is item 3812 .

Why is that item allowed to exist while spellvamp isn't?

Gregor GysiJan 17, 20171 votes

I just wanted to say that Lifesteal was actually stronger as Bloodthirster wasn't only the huge LS item but also the huge AD item with it's stacking mechanic. Hydra was also stronger while ARpen.. Well, it was stronger than lethality, but there were way less ARpen items so people didn't build a lot of it (except for BC stacking in S3).

DarkSunSovereignJan 17, 20171 votes

Crimson Pact(Innate) Passive: Vlad's spell vamp is converted into AP. Insert current passive here.

Problem solved.

PROJECT KatarìnaJan 17, 20171 votes

Having WOTA in the game makes it where vlads base ability wont heal as much (nerfs because of item not champion, remember item 1401 Sejuani ) and his build path would be generically the same instead of being able to itemize against an oppenent

DarkSunSovereignJan 17, 20171 votes

Then make the spellvamp -> ap ratio shit so he can't buy WotA. Done. Vlad is exactly the same as he is right now, but WotA exists and can be used on other mages after some balancing.

NiceTryViJan 16, 20174 votes

Exactly. "Spell vamp is hard to balance and is not a healthy mechanic. Lifesteal is good tho lul."

Glory ln DeathJan 16, 20176 votes

Lifesteal is more consistent between champions, and doesn't have to be balanced between single-target, aoe, dot, etc.

WoonStruckJan 17, 20173 votes

For some reason its not balanced between physical on-hits, intrinsic multipliers, and ranged vs melee, though.

TBH, spellvamp was a 'more' balanced stat (in the sense of checks/balances), just impossible to balance at the same time because of it.

They could have said 'fuck it' and not put any drawbacks on it at all so it could be in a similar state to lifesteal. Which would have been bad for the game.

LauchmelderJan 17, 20171 votes

If that Vlad I played against yesterday would have had spellvamp he would have been completely unkillable for me, even when getting a gank by my support and my jungler.

TeeTohrJan 17, 20171 votes

Since when vlad needs a VGU and is extremely useless ?

Papa AndreiJan 16, 201720 votes

But atleast Yorick was still viable and could reliably do things even if O/7 -ex Yorick one trick

EmollientNut0Jan 18, 20171 votes

Damn, you know League's in rough shape when Malicious is giving up Morde talks.

Maximum MordeJan 16, 201717 votes

I thought we just loved misery?

AcidTheWarlockJan 16, 20177 votes

Misery loves company.

AIIanJan 16, 20177 votes

Teemo's players say hi.

Seriously, I want CertainlyT to rework him. Will that be balanced ? Heck no, but it sure is going to be a lot of fun and it can't get more cancerous than what we have now.

One day Teemo, one day...

Jerry SeinfeIdJan 16, 20176 votes

Teemo can't be reworked. He's pretty much the games mascot.

i also don't think he needs it.

AIIanJan 16, 201713 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vape Naysh YalI,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZMI2Kbp,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2017-01-16T19:09:11.453+0000)

Teemo can't be reworked. He's pretty much the games mascot.

i also don't think he needs it.

LoL's mascot is Katarina. She's the one doing the dancing when you buy from the shop, is featured in nearly every FMV and artwork promoting the game, was the first figurine merchandised and is one of the first Google result for "LoL". Teemo is merely a private meme, like Grave's cigar.

His Q is a point and click, mana-hungry nuke that makes for a rather uninteresting ability. His W is what defines him as the "swift" scout, but as the years passed and champions' designs evolved, it's getting more and more rusty and ineffective. His E is an artifact from LoL baby steps and needs to die. His ultimate just can't be balanced ever the way it's currently working and must be redone entirely.

It pains me to tell that, what with my mastery 6 and almost complete collection of every skin ever made for him, including the beloved Omega Squad one, but current Teemo isn't going to meet LoL's current quality standard without a total overhaul.

AnidanJan 16, 20174 votes

League's mascot is Jesse Perring.

Too old? Okay...

But yeah, Katarina is basically League's mascot - featured just about everywhere, whereas Teemo is mostly just recognizable for being that meme champion that everyone says pisses them off to no end in the laning phase, and shrooms. Then again, cute little badger-creature.. that sells plushies and other things, so who knows? Maybe Kata isn't the real mascot?

DotA2 has Pudge, GW2 has quaggans, WoW has murlocs, and so on. League doesn't really push anything forward to be a mascot other than just a bit of merch, and in that category Teemo does kinda take it home.

MirkhailJan 17, 20171 votes

Teemo is very iconic inside the league community, everyone know and "hate" teemo because is "satan". Think of the Devil teemo skin, doom bots, partially omega squad teemo and in the recent sandbox mode the targets are "Teemo".

DanjengJan 17, 20172 votes

Wasn't Ryze also a mascot too, earlier on? He is one of two champions (I think) to be featured in more than one big cinematic, the other being Katarina of course. The first champion you see when installing league is an old artwork of Ryze. You also have other big artworks where the main featured champions are Kat and Ryze, both of them opposing midlaners for their respective teams. https://www.killping.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/league2.jpg http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/article/38312/1476037215079702.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AllLupai_54

In fact, when I first started LoL in Season 2/3, I recognized the blue guy from the artwork in the tutorial. And I stuck with him all the way from level 1 to Season 6 Gold (not that great, but I just got to level 30 in Season 5). He sort of got phased out by the time A New Dawn came out.

Mostro GalloJan 17, 20171 votes

It's hard to tell, but you're not trying to say that Teemo is actually weak, are you?

AIIanJan 17, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mostro Gallo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZMI2Kbp,comment-id=000a000000000003,timestamp=2017-01-17T05:29:57.216+0000)

It's hard to tell, but you're not trying to say that Teemo is actually weak, are you?

I honestly can't tell if Teemo's weak or not. Since he has such a binary kit, we can merely talk about match-up - how many he's going to win just because he's Teemo, how many he'll loose just because he's Teemo, and compare that to other champions. I think he could use some buffs (starting with reverting the duration of shrooms to 10 minutes like it was before), but I'm pretty sure he won't get any because of how uninteractive his kit is. While behind, he's just a warding bot, if ahead, his shrooms can two-shot anything that's not a tank and duel nearly anyone. Buff him and you'll end breaking him (not that it would bother me with all the bullshit we're currently dealing with, but that's no reason to add another issue to the pile if we want to get anywhere close to a fix).

I REALLY love the whole "cute but psychotic midget hunting his preys with traps, furtivity, poisons and ailments" fantasy, but his current kit didn't aged well at all and you can barely call it functional, healthy or interesting anymore. I still want him to be a reliable champion with little micro-management involved but the need for great macro-management skills, a characters all about strategy but little actual tactics, just not the way it's currently handled. Kinda like Warwick - there's a world of difference between the old and new kit, yet they're still functionally almost the same.

UnoGetGoldELOJan 17, 20172 votes

We are proud to announce our teemo rework. His Q will trigger his E automatically , another E refreshes his blind duration on a champion and on addition it will slow them. His W is now a leap that gives him bonus XX% movementspeed and is immune to slows , if hit he is rooted for 0.5seconds and becomes more vulnerable to make it a high risk high reward mlg skill.

Teemo is now able to hold up to 6 shrooms at once , each shroom dealing a randomized ammount of dmg from min to max dealing %hp true dmg scaling with levels only allowing for teemo to play AP or AD hybrid builds more effectively.

Teemos passive has been reworked to give him attackspeed per level and %hp burn truedmg and becoming invis when standing still. while standing still he gains increased mr armor and cc reduction.

Teemo will now also gain increased range to put him in line with other marksmen. We here at RIOT think that giving champions hp%dmg truedmg cc reduction armor mr and range plus movespeed and hard cc is a good idea. and than camille was created.

FattyPainBringerJan 16, 20174 votes

Mord was fine before they reworked him. you only needed 4 people to kill him before he took someone with him.

4 years ago i reported the glitch in his left knee

Mord is still pimping the glitch in his left knee 4 years later

That's all you need to know about how much Mord is loved.

you can see it for yourself. use the pentakill skin to get the cape out of the way and walk from the bottem of the map to the top in the top lane and you can see the odd twich of his left knee

vOmvbrawfUJan 16, 20174 votes

He doesn't make flashy LCS plays, so he isn't allowed to be good.

WoonStruckJan 16, 20173 votes

I don't get why Riot throws Vlad under the bus because he becomes popular in competitive, even when he's weak in solo...

...yet they're willing to buff nidalee who is always either too weak or pick/ban in BOTH competitive and solo with no in between.

SEKAIJan 16, 20173 votes

You wanna know what's good?

Morde's next rework is surely after Urgot and Vlad's.

So come, get yourself comfortable, we're going to wait a while here.

WoonStruckJan 16, 20175 votes

Vlad doesn't have another rework even hinted at. lol

SEKAIJan 16, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Vlad doesn't have another rework even hinted at. lol

That's the Easter Egg, you've found it!

WoonStruckJan 16, 20176 votes

I mean, considering the like....18 champs that are already confirmed to have reworks coming, and the inevitable 2k17 Ryze rework...not really a great joke compared to other opportunities. lol

Riot's going to let Vlad rot without even reworking him. He's going to be like Karthus. 'Healthy'...but not really?

Forhonor321Jan 17, 20173 votes

The sad thing to me is that this is all pretty much 100% accurate. Mordekaiser ever since his rework just seemed to be another Azir or Kalista, a champion whose kit was just extremely hard to balance for play so they just have to keep them very weak until they get some compensation. The problem though is Mord's kit can't allow any compensation for how it works. And yeah he's taken Yorick's place of that one forgotten champ that only a few people or hardcore mains ever play anymore.

I'm kinda hoping that his VGU is bumped up to be quite soon. I mean I didn't play him before the rework, and certainly not after with all the shit he's been though, and there are probably other champs that need VGU more than him, like Eve or Urgot, but only ever to see him on the boards because he's complete shit in game is just depressing and I feel like it's gone on long enough.

Pandemic PunchJan 16, 20172 votes

I just wish he would get reverted.

GULAG 4 UJan 16, 20172 votes

Pretty sure he has a 49% win rate which isn't exactly among the worst but not trashcan tier

MechakaiserJan 18, 20171 votes

Look again, it changes every week, because only mains play him so it can go down to 43% if some of them get a bad streak at the same time, it VERY rarely gets above 50%, which is shit for a champ with such a small player base.

General Esdeath Jan 16, 20171 votes

I say just remove his W bonus exp and give something else a buff.

MechakaiserJan 18, 20171 votes

But that will make him unviable in his main role

General Esdeath Jan 18, 20171 votes

What's his main role? Because Morde adc doesn't exist anymore as far as I know. Every Morde main I know wanted some small changes to make him viable in solo lanes, and he got those changes.