The only "counterplay" ever brought up to Soraka

Penns·Oct 20, 2015·3 votes·1,648 views

Just kill her tips fedora

108 Comments

BharhashOct 20, 20156 votes

Belly-ache more. It's super useful.

At this point, I don't think there's a single champion you wouldn't complain about. And by your own admission, you don't play the game anymore. So... what are you even trying to do besides be a troll?

See, if your aim is to actually improve the game, then you follow basic design theory here;

Identify problem Identify why it's a problem Propose solution(s) Show how solutions can solve problem.

Just screeching "X is broken! Nerf this garbage!" literally accomplishes nothing. Do something more for the community.

People are actually pointing out meaningful costs and strategies to punish Soraka, and your wonderfully pithy comments start and stop at "Nuh-uh."

If you're gonna say "Oh, well ignite's not up all the time", then you have to accept that her ult's not up all the time. Which means her actual reliable means of healing costs her a chunk of her own health. And if she has to back because she has no health, then she's not healing. Capitalize on it.

Except she's not broken. And she's not unfun to play against, assuming you can even quantify a largely subjective viewpoint like that. When most people agree a champ is broken or unfun to play against (Darius, Morde, etc), then maybe there's some truth to that subjective statement. But most people don't have a problem with Soraka, because she's not anywhere close to the problem other supports are.

PennsOct 20, 20151 votes

I asked for examples after your pointless insult, you proceed to keep "insulting". Thats pretty troll, isnt it? Also you ignored everything else I wrote, probably because you realized that Im right, to call me a troll even more with a pointless argument. Like, go to G&B right now, you probably wont find 3 threads that follow this "design theory" for a whole, and if they do, theyre probably ignored/ downvoted anyway lol.

BharhashOct 20, 20155 votes

It's a well known fact that most of G&B is just belly-aching. Doesn't make my statement about problem-solving design problems any less true.

No, you're not right. I'm not going to continue bashing my head against a wall, repeating facts and points that you refuse to accept.

And I've seen you post threads like this for weeks now. You make up some weak argument about how X is broken, or unfun, and when people come in and point out the flaws / give meaningful suggestions, you just laugh and ignore it in favor of your own preconceived notions while intentionally twisting and misrepresenting statements others make.

You're a troll.

PennsOct 20, 20151 votes

Making well designed threads just isnt worth it, but if you want, Ill do it 4 u:

Soraka is broken
Because she allows any champ ever to get into late game almost all the time with her retarded heals
Nerf or rework her again
It solves the problem because she wont be such a pain in the ass anymore

See, I dont get why people talk shit and then proceed to not respond to anything, rather they say even more senseless things...

Again, example? Because I think this is my first thread for weeks. My last actual thread about a champ was about Vlad iirc and that was like 1-2 months ago.

Wait thanks, you just perfectly described yourself lol. You just laugh and ignore anything I say in favor of your own preconvinced notions while intentionally twisting and/ or misinterpreting statements I make.

So... youre a troll?

ShonjlOct 20, 20152 votes

At this point I just hope you get banned from forums, you don't even play the game anymore so you don't belong here.

MathbalnaseOct 20, 20155 votes

summoner 14 / other sources of Grievous Wounds.

hard CC

Burst

learn to dodge her Q/E

PennsOct 20, 20152 votes

Sadly her ult removes grievous wounds on her whole team. CC lock and burst the support, nice.

Counterplay should help you beat a champ, not do something that actually helps his team beat you. tips fedora

ModWulf HelhammerOct 20, 201510 votes

How incompetent are you?

MathbalnaseOct 20, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Sadly her ult removes grievous wounds on her whole team.

Because her ult has 100% up time?

CC lock and burst the support, nice.

'Wah, wah, I have to use resources to kill the support instead of getting them for free! Zero Counterplay!'

tips fedora

Back atcha, manchild.

PennsOct 20, 20152 votes

Because ignite has 100% up time? Because bot laners build Morello? Because she cant just heal someone thats not ignited/ has grievous wounds in teamfights? This is soloq.

All Im saying is that Soraka has no healthy counterplay and "just kill her" works for every champ, u know? But yeah, stay biased, start crying about her heals when Soraka becomes meta again lol.

DrCyanideOct 20, 20154 votes

Grievous wounds reduces all healing, so even though she's healing those teammates they're not healing as much and Soraka's still loosing the same amount of life.

How about you counter with poke and dodging her Q so she doesn't get health back? She'll nearly die trying to keep her allies full heath.

PennsOct 20, 20151 votes

What do you mean with that first paragraph? Doesnt make a lot of sense to me lol.

Dodging her Q is literally impossible at ~500 range. You can dodge the slow but not the Q itself if she throws it right... Unless you want to use your valuable escape for a 3 second cd spell that doesnt do a lot of dmg?

i like pie mmmOct 20, 20151 votes

You can dodge her Q at any range it has the same cast time. Furthermore if you are having trouble this means you are probably standing still so she just has to shoot it right on top of your head. Try moving around and waiting to juke it as that will make it harder for her to center it on you and easier for you change directions faster. Furthermore she used her health to heal so champs like blitz, sona, etc can either lock her down for a quick kill or poke her out of lane.

PennsOct 20, 20151 votes

You can dodge her Q at any range it has the same cast time.

So thats how much people know about Soraka yet they call her balanced lel? And Im not having trouble against Soraka, Im not even playing League anymore, she just has a toxic kit.

ShonjlOct 20, 20153 votes

If you don't even play league, then why you even make a thread? So this thread is entirely worthless.

Before crying about Raka, actually look at the current top supports, you would probably have a seizure and die if you think Raka is bad compared to them. And even they aren't that bad.

DrCyanideOct 20, 20154 votes

What champion pokes at 500 range? That's "we're in ranged auto attack, full brawl commencing" range.

The first paragraph is simple. Soraka looses the same amount of health to heal a target. It doesn't matter how much health the target gains, she looses that same amount. Grievous Wounds on the target prevent them from being healed as much by Soraka, effectively creating a greater net loss of health for their team.

PennsOct 20, 20151 votes

Since it has ~1 second delay at 1000 range, its probably gonna be impossible to dodge at 700 range already, better?

Well yeah, but her ult removes grievous wounds on her whole team, so youre gonna need at least 2 sources, focussing 1 target, which is nearly impossible especially in soloq. And even if you manage to kill 1 of them, she can just make someone else unkillable.

DrCyanideOct 20, 20153 votes

At 700 range it has approximately a 0.72 second delay. I think you should have time to move out of range in that time.

As for the Grevious Wounds, is she really going to pop her ultimate between ever Xerath Q? Or every Ziggs Q? Or every Vel'Koz Q? Or whatever else? Probably not.

PennsOct 20, 20151 votes

Idk the radius of her Q, so idk if you can but w/e its soloq people always group hard (if they group at all lol).

But all these champs are bad in this meta, or at least seen as bad by people so no one plays them.

DrCyanideOct 20, 20152 votes

In a meta where Soraka is a common pick, these champions would likely also be common picks. And if not those ones specifically certainly other poke heavy champions like Varus or Jayce.

Regardless, Soraka would have to come close to the front lines of her team to get a 700 range Q off, making her susceptible to a trade.

5000000000000000Oct 20, 20152 votes

Soraka doesn't lose the same amount of health she heals for. Her health cost is flat 10% max hp, while her heal scales up.

At level 1, health cost is 52, and healing done would be 120+60% AP. At level 9 (assuming W max first), health cost is 105 and healing done would be 240+60% AP. At level 18, health cost is 186 and healing done is 240+60% AP.

Even with 0 AP build, she heals more than she gets hurt.

Not saying that she's overpowered, though.

DrCyanideOct 20, 20153 votes

I meant it costs Soraka the same amount of health to heal an ally inflicted with Grievous Wounds as it does to heal an ally not effected by that debuff. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

5000000000000000Oct 20, 20151 votes

I see. That makes much more sense.

Face The LewdOct 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

/ other sources of Grievous Wounds.

hard CC

Burst

learn to dodge her Q/E

.... Dodge the instant AoE silence? http://puu.sh/kRE3c/88e43503d1.png oh.....

MathbalnaseOct 21, 20152 votes

A) there is a (very small) window after the field is placed, after a champion enters the field, and/or after a champion becomes targetable (in the case of zhonya/etc) before the silence is actually applied.

B) I was actually referring to dodging the root

WarlockLawOct 21, 20151 votes

I think they fixed the Zhonyas thing but left in the just cast part

MathbalnaseOct 21, 20151 votes

If they did, it's not in her patch notes - or those of Zhonya's - on the wiki.

WarlockLawOct 22, 20151 votes

Pretty sure it was in the patch notes a while back that they increased the rate at which it reapplies the silence.

MathbalnaseOct 22, 20151 votes

Any idea when that was? Like I said, I checked Soraka's (and Zhonha's) entries on the wiki, and just did a skim through the full patch notes on the wiki back to 5.10, and found no such mention.

WarlockLawOct 23, 20151 votes

Might be wrong then, no idea

MathbalnaseOct 23, 20151 votes

I remember there was a bunch of talk about fixing it a while back, but I can't remember anything actually being done about it, and the wiki doesn't seem to contain any hint of it

BharhashOct 20, 20154 votes

Soraka builds full AP, she's squish af so you just poke her down / burst her down / all-in her.

She builds tank and she heals for crap.

There are worst supports out there than her.

PennsOct 20, 20152 votes

No there arent. I rather play against a good Thresh or Braum or whatever than against a Soraka player that knows what hes doing.

BharhashOct 20, 20153 votes

Well good for you, you're wrong.

Soraka brings virtually nothing to the table that another support doesn't do better. No other support loses health to heal their ADC.

Seriously, if Soraka is wrecking your game then you need to get good.

Also, one of her "self heals" relies on hitting you with it, which if you're doing anything more than sitting still ought to be pretty hard for her at range.

PennsOct 20, 20152 votes

Im wrong? How can I be wrong about my opinion?

No other support has a 1.2 second cooldown heal for over 300 with low AP, idc if he loses health herself, thats literally broken. Also no other support heals for over 500 HP by hitting 4 champs with a ranged aoe ability every 3 seconds, this shit is basically AP Darius lol.

And Soraka isnt "wrecking my game" at all, why would I want to play this broken game with a retarded ranking system that doesnt reward you at all at the moment? Id rather wait for season 6 and see how things evolve.

5000000000000000Oct 20, 20152 votes

240+60% heal at max rank. You need at least 100 AP to heal for more than 300. Also, 1.6% CD at max rank and 40% CDR. Her self heal is highly conditional, since its projectile speed is really slow, and at close range when it's hard to dodge, she's in danger (since she's squishy).

Also, she gives up everything to be a healer. She can't peel for her carry or herself aside from her silence field (extremely unreliable) and Q slow which can do 50% slow at max rank if you're lucky. Sure, her heals are the strongest in the game (except maybe Fiora ult and Darius Q, but those are separate issues), but she's not good at anything else.

PennsOct 20, 20151 votes

2 x 0.6 is 1.2 sec cooldown at max rank isnt it? And 100 is low AP so what exactly is your point?

Heals are "peel" as well. So you basically just said "she cant peel for her carry aside from her E, her Q and her 2 heals", so... all of her abilities can peel for her carry, actually. I love when people make things up/ totally ignore logic just to defend a champ that isnt seen as "broken" by everyone yet lol.

5000000000000000Oct 21, 20151 votes

My bad about the CD. Not sure what I was thinking about that.

Heal is a peel? I didn't realize how heals can peel off enemy assassin/diver from your squishy carry.

100 AP is low AP for assassins/mages. On Soraka? You need to first get Sightstone, Talisman of Ascension, and boots before you can start building AP. Sure, your AP is a small number, but you'll need to make a huge investment into AP over utility items.

PennsOct 21, 20151 votes

Well, if, say a Zed jumps onto your adc and you can instantly remove ignite + heal your adc for around 800 HP, I would call that "peeling" too.

You actually get coin now? I thought Soraka starts item 3303 . so 100 wouldnt be a lot lol. But w/e 60 heal more every 1.2 sec is wurf.

Zorae42Oct 20, 20153 votes

Dodge her Q
Grievous Wounds (not a hard counter play, but helps)
Knockbacks/Pulls that separate her from her ADC ( etc)
AA based hyper carries that don't care about silence and will melt her team faster than she can heal: or a jgl

PennsOct 20, 20152 votes

Impossible
Ult
Basically "kill her"
"Get fed enough to kill her whole team", thats a new one.

Ill just wait till she becomes meta then

BharhashOct 20, 20157 votes

You just love to troll G&B, I've found. Literally anytime I see you in a thread, it's senseless BS like this.

I'd love to break down logically why the statement "I can't be wrong, it's my opinion" is useless, but I'll instead focus on the topic at hand.

Mainly that Soraka brings next to nothing to the table for the team. She has to constantly put herself at the edge of danger to try and land her Qs, This gives you a perfect opportunity ( doubly so for champs like Caitlyn and Jinx ) to harass her. Soraka can't heal if she's got no health, and at early levels her healing sucks balls.

Oh but her AoE Silence!

If you're team is dumb enough to clump up and sit still long enough for her E to silence and snare them all, then you've got bigger problems than a banana-slinging goat-girl.

Thresh can hook. He can slow. He can reposition allies and enemies. Braum has a slow/stun, Armor/MR boost to himself and ally, shield wall, and a ranged aoe knockup.

There are so many better champs than Soraka. If you think she's OP and a huge problem, then you're wrong.

Zorae42Oct 20, 20156 votes

If you think it's impossible to dodge then you must have problems with a lot more champs than Soraka
Not always going to be up. I know the same goes for GW, but there are times where she can't/shouldn't ult and GW really hurts her.
Not necessarily her, if she can't reach her ADC, then you can kill them pretty easily.
Hyper carries love passive lanes. They just farm until mid-late game and become monsters unless you've got hard CC (i.e. not silence or super delayed root). So they can get fed enough to easily out damage Soraka's heals.

Archon XOct 20, 20152 votes

I'm 11-0 in ranked solo queue with Soraka, in plat games.

She's beast once she hits her powerspike.

PennsOct 20, 20152 votes

Nah, your enemies shouldve just killed you Kappa

Archon XOct 20, 20152 votes

well they certainly tried, and sometimes succeeded in laning phase. The problem is mid and late game where basically if I'm left alive I'm spamming heal and silence, and if they kill me they have to blow their cd's on me with my Talisman making me unkillable to aa's, so my team can easily clean up.

Kat HeadOct 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EYoWuXb8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-20T19:37:04.650+0000)

I'm 11-0 in ranked solo queue with Soraka, in plat games.

She's beast once she hits her powerspike.

Yeah she is, that level 1 powerspike is INSANE.

Archon XOct 20, 20151 votes

she's weak at 1, decent at 2, great at 3

then once she finishes Talisman it's gg

Kat HeadOct 20, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EYoWuXb8,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2015-10-20T21:54:45.637+0000)

she's weak at 1, decent at 2, great at 3

then once she finishes Talisman it's gg

Yeah, I agree. Was just being funny.

She is the 18th most banned champion in the game, the highest support ban. She is banned quite frequently in master and challenger tiers where you would think people would be able to play around her the best. Unless of course, she actually does not offer enough counter play.

Nerfs are coming, I hope for soraka it is actual kit changes.