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So, Riot, could Viktor get some buffs already?

Malicious Metal··46 votes·5,212 views

His Win rate has been on a downward trend ever since his mini rework and the "changes" to Rylais, making him sit on a 45% win rate at the time of me writing this.

He's only seen nerfs ever since he got reworked and it all adds up to him being in a really pitiful state right now. He's clunky due to him still somewhat relying on item 3116 to do his job plus having raised his item 3196 to a whole #1250 gold makes him rely so hard on actually going even in lane or getting an early kill.

Whereas other mid laners can just stack Dorans or get cheap component items Viktor NEEDS to get his first hexcore upgrade in order to be relevant.

So, can we actually revert the cost increase already? Or actually buff him in any other way. He's by far one of the coolest mid laners there is and compared to stuff like Orianna, Ahri and Syndra he actually requires quite a bit of effort to do well on.

Most of his damage is bound to skillshots and his Chaos storm is really telegraphed.

Can he just get some love already? I really think he doesn't deserve being left in the gutter like this. https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33292459/Viktor.jpg

81 Comments

ThatHaleState21 votes

As fond as we know that you are of him, I am glad that he is not meta for once. He is often like Shen. If he is good at all, he dominates Pro play. His waveclear is nuts, and his 1shot potential is just as potent. I'm fine with other mages getting their time in the light.

Aimléss15 votes

No champion should ever be in the gutter unless their kit has 0 counterplay, and is just unfun to play against so they need a rework like Azir. Compared to Syndra and Ahri, who dominate mid atm, Viktor is definitely more fun to play against than those two, especially Syndra who Riot admits, can't even miss her aoe stun. I can never understand people like you who think it's right for champions to sit in a closet for a year as if that were good game design...

Theorchero6 votes

{quoted}

No champion should ever be in the gutter unless their kit has 0 counterplay, and is just unfun to play against so they need a rework like Azir. Compared to Syndra and Ahri, who dominate mid atm, Viktor is definitely more fun to play against than those two, especially Syndra who Riot admits, can't even miss her aoe stun. I can never understand people like you who think it's right for champions to sit in a closet for a year as if that were good game design...

Viktor is not fun to play against when he's good. He just waveclears and offers zero interaction.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

Wow that sounds like every other champion that can waveclear fast and efficiently!

Sahn Uzal11 votes

What does him being fond of the champ have to do with anything? No agressive tone intended, just question.

Azeranth2 votes

Its monotonous is a bad reason to want a champ out of meta. Viktor is fun to play with, and he is reliable. That is Viktor's whole thing. He is a machine, machines are consistent, they do their job, they're consistent. There should be no time where Viktor should be a bad pick, his kit is simple, easy to learn, with a moderate skill ceiling. He does everything a midlaner should, clear, poke, dps. Viktor should never be bad, he should never be amazing either. Viktor should not be the best at any time, but always be third or so

RektM8ys1 votes

Right because it's good that some players dont get to enjoy a champ right? Like Rengar, Malzahar to name a few. Real fun having champs ruined. But go play annie or whatever you like to do.

ShadowParker15 votes

Orianna and Syndra don't need skill to play well..? C'mon. That's not a good argument and simply because they're meta doesn't make them "easy" champions.

3TWarrior3 votes

well, both champions have low skill floors and high skill ceilings

in other words, lots of room to work with

Danjeng4 votes

IDK why people down vote you. Perhaps there are some super elitist Orianna/Syndra mains who believe that their champions are the hardest of the hard to master, and anybody below Platinum cannot play them at all.

Low skill floor means that it's easy to pick them up. High skill ceilings means that they have an incredible potential to be played on a great level. Isn't that what they are?

Is 3TWarrior wrong? Those champions are very popular mid laners atm in every rank, whether you be Bronze or Master. They also do fairly well too. An example of a high skill floor champion would be Azir. And I'm sure you wouldn't want them to end up like Azir.

ShadowParker4 votes

Let's be honest here, Orianna and Syndra are definately on the harder side to master. Obviously they aren't on Azir or Aurelion Sol level but in no way are they easy.

Danjeng3 votes

That's exactly what I said! Orianna and Syndra ARE on the harder side to master. I'm saying that they have a lot of depth to be played on higher levels. I don't think I've explained what I meant clearly.

I'm saying that they can be played well on lower levels too! That's good champion design, as they are accessible on all levels of play. But there's just a swarm of Orianna/Syndra mains who just clobber on anyone who suggests anything other than that they are super hard to play. I am agreeing that they are hard to play for chrissake. I am literally stating that.

My point is that they can be played to a reasonable good level despite what elo you have. Meaning you don't have to be top 100 challenger to do well on her. But they have a high skill cap, meaning it's difficult to reach their full potential. Get what I'm saying? If you do well on them, you're probably good.

Here's for clarification:

Garen. Low skill floor, meaning you can do well even if you're just starting out. Low skill cap, meaning it's easy to master him and little to improve on afterwards.

Orianna. Low skill floor, you can still have a good impact in games with your game-changing ultimate and straightfoward abilities. High skill cap, there's much to improve upon to maximize your effectiveness.

Azir. High skill floor, you'll probably do badly if you aren't very skilled/experienced. High skill cap, he's a monster in LCS and OTP's.

~~But I guess I'm wrong. Only the top 1000 Korean players can achieve a 50%+ win rate on Orianna. Would you get your ego out your ass and try to understand? You do not want to main a champion with a high skill floor, unless you want to end up like Azir or Ryze. Nobody thinks Orianna or Syndra are easy. They're just easy to learn. Rant over. Believe whatever the fuck you want to. ~~

ShadowParker3 votes

I had respect for you up until the last paragraph. It was clearly a misunderstanding and you acknowledged that yet you were a jerk about it.

Danjeng2 votes

Sorry, was ranting and got upset. That was unnecessary. On an unrelated note, I like your Sputnik Bard icon.

ShadowParker1 votes

I dig the icon also haha.

Handin Out Naps3 votes

They really don't.

ShadowParker1 votes

They really do.

Just because they're meta doesn't change that fact. Let's not confuse the two.

Handin Out Naps2 votes

I mean that's cool and all but I can still take those 2 champs with only a few games played and do well with them. Syndra takes a bit more skill, but Ori is completely brain dead.

HeavyHoplite6 votes

Finally a topic I can post on because I know what its talking about!

As a Viktor Player with 65% win rate I can tell you he does not need buffs per say. However they would be nice to have. From my own gameplay experience his early game is what needs the most tweaks.

As you have shown here before 25 minutes he has a win rate less than 45%. This is largely much due to item 3196 upgrade cost. To obtain 1250 gold you need to get around 45-50 CS to have item 3196 with some hp pots. This is assuming you have no kills. This is a ridiculous time to stay in lane were other mid lanners (Ahri Velkoz and Orianna) can go back with 900 gold to get item 3802.

For those who don't know how Viktor works he needs to upgrade to item 3196 ASAP. His laser is his main source of wave clear and farming. Without its upgrade for extra damage it is very easy for Viktor to get pushed in and lose CS and get behind his lane opponent. The high (in terms relative to the early game) gold cost of item 3196 makes it very hard to have a good early game at times.

This is only going to get worse as mana regen item 1056 will not stack anymore. Making it even more important for Viktor to get item 3196.

As for the nerfs to item 3116 is has not hurt him as much as you think. The more time you play Viktor the better you will be at landing his abilities and you will not need to rely on the slows from item 3116 as much. It is why many pro players never used item 3116 on Viktor in Spring Split. They knew were the abilities needed to go before they cast them.

I think a buff to Viktor's mana regen early on would be great to get him through the laning phase since item 1056 is getting nerfed. A reduction on his upgrade cost for item 3196 would also help him. I think any other buffs would start to make Viktor oppressive again and I for one do not want to see him dumpstered like Urgot.

SweedishGunner4 votes

As a fellow Viktor main I think his early game spike being delayed isn't too bad.

A larger base mana pool or increased regen would help him a lot though.

I made a thread about reverting the last nerfs to his ult but it died on impact.

Right now I think he suffers a lot from the meta, he's really bad against mobile champions and lane bullies, both of which are popular.

HeavyHoplite1 votes

What items do you build on Viktor? I find I don't have much of a problem deal with Ahri and other lane bullies that often. I usually run item 3100 after item 3198 with item 3158 sometimes in between. I have found most people do not respect the damage Lich provides early on. As long as you can dodge skill shots you should be doing well.

I also find taking exhaust helps quite a bit as well.

SweedishGunner1 votes

Same as you, Lich first as long as I'm not behind (or I need for item 3135 like 3 tanks) and CDR boots. Ahri isn't too bad a matchup since by the time she's 6 you'll usually have the Augmented Death Ray so you can keep her at bay by just pushing her in.

However if she gets ahead she can just monkey you down if she lands a sufficient amount of poke, I still don't mind picking Viktor into Ahri though.

sit kid5 votes

While I don't think he is more fair than your other midlaners, then yes - he is definetely too weak atm.

The cost increase on hexcore in the early game definetely hurt him too much in terms of power spikes. Viktor has to wait for an entire 1250g to back and get his first updgrade. Too much in my opinion.

BTW: His winrate actually skyrocketed the first patches, but rylais became meta and basically solved the issue of his new E delay. Both Viktor and Rylais got nerfed, and Viktor basically hasn't gotten his compensation buff for the rylais nerf, even though it has been months since...

WitchQueen Annie2 votes

yeah item 3116 is absolute garbage right now

absolute garbage

sit kid4 votes

It's not garbage, just not OP as it used to be. Plenty of mages still build Rylais, the main difference just is that littereally everyone doesnt build it now. I remember people built it on Syndra. No rylais buff - but I'd rather look into reverting the changes to his hex-core upgrades in terms of price. (back to 1000g per upgrade instead of this)

UnboundHades4 votes

im fine with anything besides buffing his q damage

Dark Nephthys4 votes

{quoted}

im fine with anything besides buffing his q damage

My thoughts exactly. His Q damage is actually really freaking strong and even now it pisses me off when people kept complaining about Anivia's old R>E when Viktor's Q does more damage than Anivia's empowered E with getting extra benefits and requiring no other ability to set up.

Colton1471 votes

{quoted}

im fine with anything besides buffing his q damage

This pretty much.

I don't feel like getting obliterated into nothingness. :p

DoktorKaiser3 votes

Ok first of all no need to insult other people who play realistically hard to play champs like Orianna Syndra Ahri (btw how is Viktor more unique than Orianna , speaking as someone who played them more than all other mages combined).
Now the problem we have here is that Viktor has a serious issue which is that he is much stronger in LCS than he is in SoloQ. If you ask me why, my first and only realistic response is his waveclear, I mean of course he has damage and can 1 shot people, his kit is mostly AOE etc etc, but what he does better than any other mage in the game is waveclear and that is heavily abusable in pro play. That is why even now when he is semi-trash pick in regular play he is still picked especially in Korea. What I personally dont like is that Viktor's Q is probably his strongest fighting skill actually, it does ridiculous damage, it makes it possible to kite really hard and if you buy lich bane its even better. I really think that his E needs to be stronger, yes its AOE but its hard to use properly unlike Q that is just point and click. Also I really think the main buff he needs is, as you already said, to revert his first core to 1000 gold, I cant fucking describe how much it fucks me, that bonus 250 gold, because somehow I always find myself going OOM in lane after I got around 950 gold, so I used to last hit a few more and back but now I have to stay a lot more or literally go back and buy jack shit which gets me killed at least 75% of times in lane. Its reaaaly frustrating and it sucks, no reason for that nerf, pros will farm perfectly and manage their fucking mana anyway so they wont feel the nerf unlike regular players. I dont think Viktor will ever be an actualy problem in SoloQ just because he gets absolutely destroyed by any assassin in the game, so they might as well buff him a bit, but I am sure the LCS will get him nerfed again :(

Cosmic Warper2 votes

The only buffs i think he needs are a slight cost decrease to hex core (1250-->1000) and his E delay to go from 1s to .75s

Toastersaot2 votes

The cost decrease you mentioned is not a small buff IMO. 250 gold is a lot of gold, it's only a cannon creep away from being a free kill worth of gold. However, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, considering Viktor's current state.

KoKoboto2 votes

His Q and R is point click. His E is practically point click, you can't dodge it. But yes he does need buffs.

Ahristocats6 votes

his R is not point and click but called targeted area

the power budget of his ult requieres you to stand on it for the entire duration, leaving room to do a lot of things

compared to syndra 675 range point and click death, i find it fair

AwesomeGuyDj2 votes

Viktors ult, against any one with good movespeed or mobility, atleast from what i understand requires him to stun or slow you to land all its damage. Its not point and click.

General Esdeath 2 votes

I think he's fine, the issue is just that he's a late game champ and in this meta, most games are decided in the first 20-30.

For example: Veigar 49% winrate on champion.gg Cassiopeia 49% winrate Gangplank 47% winrate mid lane Nasus 47% winrate Ezreal 45% winrate

Lexyy1 votes

Can someone help me with understanding his ult? I finally realized you have to click R and where you want it to go, but I find it hard to control him and his ult during a fight. Is there easier way to do that?

I know it's supposed to be a powerful ult but I feel like it's useless (probably because of the way I use it). It's too slow, easy to escape....

Dreampod2 votes

That is why Rylai's is core on him and why the tick rate on R hurt him so much. Basically it gets a lot easier to keep people in it once it also allows them. The other thing is that it allows the further it gets from him so it is less useful to drop and try to chase enemies that run but better if you are using enhanced Q to stay close and keeping them slowed.

It is a bit of a pain to control but you eventually get used to punching R every second or so to keep maneuvering it where you want it to go.

Lexyy1 votes

Okay thanks, yes my chasing never works out ahaha

Aimléss5 votes

The closer you are to it the faster it runs at the enemy. It's best used against melee fighters who get trapped in your W stun. They'll have to tank nearly the full duration if they have no escapes.

Lexyy1 votes

Thanks!

DrCyanide2 votes

Press R and click on a target, it'll try to follow them.

Lexyy1 votes

I'll try that. Tnx

WitchQueen Annie2 votes

You press R to drop it. Then you should keep re-clicking R to move it around manually.

The automatic following of the R is highly highly unreliable so its best to just continually manually reposition it with subsequent R clicks.

You need to move and control Viktor and use his other abilities while you do this though to be most effective. So its kind of hard.

Lexyy1 votes

Thank youu :D

SirTeemoMushroom1 votes

win rate doesn't say something .... viktor is a hard champion , he is not a hyper carry ... he is a champion that controls his lane . if u want to carry play akali , yasuo etc..

SweedishGunner1 votes

What?

HeavyHoplite2 votes

He is a carry mate whether he can "hard carry" is debatable but in my experience he can if done right. Don't play Akali if you want to climb she's to inconsistent. Yas is too hard for most people to play so I would not recommend him either.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

For such a high skill cap champion he's actually balanced for the most part.

TheOvermind1 votes

We can play league without Viktor being in the meta for once, Especially when there is champions that require more attention than him.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Yes pls, Vik is locked behind a gold gate unlike many other mages.

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