Should S5's jungle monsters (besides Dragon and Baron) have 0 armor, but higher health?

darkdill·Oct 30, 2014·3 votes·1,581 views

Riot's changing minions in Season 5 to have no AR/MR and higher health to make flat penetration non-effective against them.

As a suggestion for jungling, could this sort of thing also be done for jungle monsters? It'd certainly help for people who want to take flat AD marks instead of ArPen marks. Might hurt magic damage junglers a bit, but that could also be compensated (i.e. give all jungle monsters negative MR like the golems).

Any thoughts?

13 Comments

KingsgraveOct 30, 20143 votes

Well I like the idea of making every monster have more health so Trundle passive is better lol

darkdillOct 30, 20141 votes

Well, we don't see enough jungle Trundles anyways. At times, I feel like I'm the only person who ever plays him as a jungler.

KingsgraveOct 30, 20142 votes

He might see more play in the Jungle with the updates considering he is one of the few that has a healthy first clear, but with the minions getting more health he might see even more play in Top Lane.

I honestly feel like his Level 1 W doesn't give enough of any stat. Maybe if they buffed that he'd be better.

SecretAgentHulkOct 30, 20141 votes

The speed boost is good IMO, and I usually don't have enough AS at level 2 (when I take W) that anything would make a difference.

Meep ManOct 30, 20141 votes

Nah man, I'm here with you. Although Trundle isnt the best ganker, he clears so fast and when he ganks, he doesnt gank to kill. He ganks to kill a tower within seconds.

Meep ManOct 30, 20142 votes

Agreed, immediate buffs to Trundle yesh

7ha7guy777Oct 30, 20141 votes

wouldn't they just have negative armor and mr then? % pen wouldn't work though.

darkdillOct 30, 20141 votes

% pen doesn't really affect jungle monsters anyways. And no, flat pen can't reduce a target below 0. Reduction effects can, though (i.e. Abyssal Scepter or Fiddlesticks).

7ha7guy777Oct 30, 20141 votes

i could have sworn after buying the brutalizer on pantheon that without criting i did a decent amount of damage to minions beyond my AD. maybe it had something to do with my masteries

darkdillOct 30, 20141 votes

Brutalizer is flat penetration, not % pen.

7ha7guy777Oct 30, 20141 votes

right. so they'd have negative armor. my first post was a little unclear. the first sentence was about flat pen while the second was about % pen.

killd0zerOct 31, 20141 votes

Any/All PENETRATION effects are unable to reduce Armor/MR lower than 0.

REDUCTION effects can reduce below 0, however they apply first, meaning if you have 20 armor pen, and 20 armor reduction against a 30 armor target. That amount is reduced to 10, then penetration ignores that last 10 leaving an effective 0 armor.

7ha7guy777Oct 31, 20141 votes

then i guess there was some other reason why i was doing close to 10% bonus damage against minions. thanks for the clarification.