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I finally figured out why Vayne is such a great and popular pick atm.

SlaktarTasken··1 votes·1,466 views

This isn't some rant about why Vayne is OP, cause honestly, while I feel she is utterly anoying I don't really think she's massively OP. So to the subject at hand, why is Vayne so popular and such a great pick?

Alot of people would probably say it's because she outshines all current adc's, I feel this is prety far from the mark, not saying I'm entirely correct, just sharing my perspective:

Vayne imo, does not outshine other adc's, shurely her early is somewhat to safe given her hypercarry status but that isn't the reason, no, the reason why Vayne is so great atm is because she is just about the only adc that is somewhat independent and capable of safe to roaming (without a support) with, think about it.

In a straight up teamfight, she will get outperformed by AoE adc's pretty heftily, take Jinx (who I main due to the vast ammount of Vaynes in game) will never be able to duel a Vayne straight up unless you massively outplay her, but will still spread alot more damage during a teamfight due to rockets and is capable of turning a teamfight with some well placed chompers. Vayne is quite capable of this as well with her ult, that is to juke tons of focus and make the opponents pay, but imo, in a straight up teamfight Jinx will outperform Vayne. Given her team peels for her and she doesn't get nuked before she can do her job (which sadly isn't a prevalent strategy in my current elo).

This mobility/steroid creep is further increased with the new class of "immobile","low cc", super tanky and high damage champs called juggernauts prevailing in game, it's no wonder Vayne is becoming increasingly popular and increasing winrate, since, no matter how great Jinx is at what she does, she is useless if she is dead, and she not very hard to catch and kill, Vayne on the other hand is a totally different story, given the right circumstances (getting of a condemn against the target against a wall+ silverbolts) she is probably the only adc currently with the tools and steroids to be able to safely survive and/or duel the juggs.

(Btw, yes I know there are other mobiles adc's like corki and ez, but while having the tools to escape they don't really have the steroids to make a dent i jugs health given 1v1 fights and also once their escapes are used they are on a high cd making them useless to continuously reposition around the fight)

Just my 2c, thoughts?

25 Comments

Sett up 4my gank2 votes

The adc's who used to punish vayne arent really played anymore. With the growing tank / bruiser meta % health true damage, and Bork are really strong right now. Also yes she can actually kite low mobile bruisers easily.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

{quoted}

The adc's who used to punish vayne arent really played anymore. With the growing tank / bruiser meta % health true damage, and Bork are really strong right now. Also yes she can actually kite low mobile bruisers easily.

I've actually had a alot of success playing Jinx vs Vayne, mastering your Q (switcheroo) makes it pretty easy to push her out of lane or straight up kill her once she's low enough, ofc all of this also depends on supports.

Sett up 4my gank1 votes

{quoted}

I've actually had a alot of success playing Jinx vs Vayne, mastering your Q (switcheroo) makes it pretty easy to push her out of lane or straight up kill her once she's low enough, ofc all of this also depends on supports.

That might be true in lower elo's but when you get to plat + if the person know's vayne they know how to trade with jinx. Not that jinx isn't decent against vayne, but its not an auto win like Corki / Cait / old Lucian

disregardable1 votes

Assuming equal/no supports, it is an auto win lane. Can't stop the rest of your team from feeding her, though.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

{quoted}

That might be true in lower elo's but when you get to plat + if the person know's vayne they know how to trade with jinx. Not that jinx isn't decent against vayne, but its not an auto win like Corki / Cait / old Lucian

There might be some truth to this, but my strategy when going against vayne (at leas in my elo where most vaynes are pretty mediocre) is time my harass while she's farming so she doesn't have a chance to retaliate since I know I can't outtrade her.

I did once have a match agaist a plat vayne and just like you said, everytime I tried to rokets her she would just counterattack with tumble outtrading me everytime. Why I was playing a ranked match against a lower plat as silver you will have to ask riot. ^^

As for Lucian, despite his lategame buff his early is still somewhat untouched so I can see why he can't deal with her. I've never really mained Corki so I can't judge his capacity to deal with her, if he's decent I might get him and learn how to use him, will have to check it out.

Imo Cait has always been russian roulette vs Vayne, either you and your support manage to supress Vayne early or you don't, she outscales and just destroys you later. To make matters worse Cait has a horrible midgame and junglers nowadays (at least in my elo) seem to not give a rats *ss about snowballing anyone but themselves. So not a decent pick imo.

LaceUp232 votes

The real reason is because people on boards cried about lane bully adcs/supports being too OP. They got nerfed and then hypercarries shine. Common sense really lol.

disregardable1 votes

The problem is that survivability isn't supposed to be a trait of the class; dying easily is supposed to make up for the range, damage, and objective control. In that way she is far superior to other ADCs. She does make a sacrifice for that, namely in the form of teamfight damage, but in low-coordinated teamfights (like in every teamfight that isn't in the LCS) it isn't very noticeable.

I also think you need to keep in mind that what most of the people that hate Vayne want is for ADCs to not be in the meta at all. They don't want buffs to the other ADCs and nerfs to armor items (to make them be as good as Vayne), they just want them out of the meta.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EVvIuZJA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-29T16:23:42.178+0000)

The problem is that survivability isn't supposed to be a trait of the class; dying easily is supposed to make up for the range, damage, and objective control. In that way she is far superior to other ADCs. She does make a sacrifice for that, namely in the form of teamfight damage, but in low-coordinated teamfights (like in every teamfight that isn't in the LCS) it isn't very noticeable.

I also think you need to keep in mind that what most of the people that hate Vayne want is for ADCs to not be in the meta at all. They don't want buffs to the other ADCs and nerfs to armor items (to make them be as good as Vayne), they just want them out of the meta.

But if vayne is outshining other adc's shouldn't she be braught in line disregarding if the class is impactful or not as a whole?

disregardable1 votes

That's Riot's decision. As of right now, they seem to think the game is healthier with only 2 ADCs than with none.

LaowPing1 votes

Vayne doesn't outshine ADCs, she just has a different purpose. While other teams have poke, siege, and team fighting, Vayne has assassination and dueling. The former requires team work, which is usually lacking in solo que which, makes someone like Vayne, who can solo carry, more valuable.

Humble Fungus1 votes

Vayne is popular for 1 primary reason. Tanks are popular.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

{quoted}

Vayne is popular for 1 primary reason. Tanks are popular.

I wouldn't say tanks are popular, I'd say juggernauts are popular and the issue with these juggernauts is that they are not at all very immobile, and they do not lack cc. On the contrary, tanks are alot easier to beat as and adc in an extended 1v1 (given they don't burst you and given you are more fed than they are) dueling juggs with anyone other ADC than vayne is a fairytale dream.

Humble Fungus1 votes

Eh... I think Jinx/Cait could handle a juggernaut too. It would require good trap placement and kiting though.

The main reason Vayne beats tanks is that %hp dmg on her W. High HP champs are kind of popular right now from what I've seen and those are the champs that Vayne is strongest against.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

{quoted}

Eh... I think Jinx/Cait could handle a juggernaut too. It would require good trap placement and kiting though.

The main reason Vayne beats tanks is that %hp dmg on her W. High HP champs are kind of popular right now from what I've seen and those are the champs that Vayne is strongest against.

Don't get me wrong any adc can handle a jugg given their team peels for them and given they have enough items to actually make a dent in juggers health.

But in my elo that is pretty rare, the only time my team will definately peel for me is if I've without a doubt stomped my lane. This mentality has lead to me losing alot of games, but then again I tend to get a little tilted when I can't realy on my team as a glasscannon carry, so it's also my fault.

But cait/jinx handle a garen or skarner in 1v1? Maybe if they are massively underfed, underskilled, I don't see it happening otherwise.

And also I've lost count of how many times I as a fed carry have been nuked by a garen who bumrushed straight through my team to nuke me with true damage (punished for playing good :,< ) - (despite orbwalking and or trapping).

Humble Fungus1 votes

That's the thing... if your Cait/Jinx is fighting anyone 1v1, they are over extended.

An ADC should always be defended by something.. whether it be a turret or a tank. An ADC's job isn't to tank anything at all. The entire job of an ADC is to do a LOT of damage. It's your team's responsibility to cc targets off of you, it's your responsibility to play safe enough that you don't feed, even if your team isn't doing their part.

My next question to you would be.. as a Jinx/Cait.. what are you doing some where where you can be confronted 1v1?

You are throwing. That's what you're doing in that situation.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

{quoted}

That's the thing... if your Cait/Jinx is fighting anyone 1v1, they are over extended.

An ADC should always be defended by something.. whether it be a turret or a tank. An ADC's job isn't to tank anything at all. The entire job of an ADC is to do a LOT of damage. It's your team's responsibility to cc targets off of you, it's your responsibility to play safe enough that you don't feed, even if your team isn't doing their part.

My next question to you would be.. as a Jinx/Cait.. what are you doing some where where you can be confronted 1v1?

You are throwing. That's what you're doing in that situation.

Imo throwing is giving away turrets for free, it's something I can't do if I'm in a position to defend it disregarding which champ/role I play. This is where I generally get solonuked by juggs, I try my best to not overextend or fight without my team but I can't stand and watch a full health turret go to 0 just because most of my teammembers are doing some other meaningless thing while leaving our defenses to get raped.

Salt Miner 49 Er1 votes

People pick Vayne because they're that insecure with their own skill level that they can't handle the idea of losing given her anti-counterplay passive on Silver Bolts.

AtheosisX1 votes

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The issue with Vayne is that she is not weak enough early game to justify her crazy late game. That is all.

UltraSceptile1 votes

Here's why-she's a mile ahead every other adc except jinx. And thus is broken and should be gutted.

4ManVotedAgainst1 votes

I think it's just that Vayne has very few & specific niche-counters that most people don't use. Thus far I have had some good successes going Malphite support for Ashe when laning against a Vayne (due to the synergy of chain-CC with Malphite ult followed by Ashe ult or vice-versa as can be seen in some of my match-history where I indeed was Malphite support against a team with Vayne [one of them being due to the fact that Vayne banned Nautilus so that I couldn't pick Nautilus as a support against her]).

Sometimes I've used Malzahar or Fiddlesticks support against Vayne to varying degrees of success but they probably should not be your first options as support-choices (tankier CC like Nautilus seems to be better, except if they have a lane-shoving capable bot-lane, I would go Malphite instead, due to being able to use his E to help clear minion-waves from under turret).

LaowPing1 votes

It's also the fact that in solo que people aren't all that coordinated. This helps Vayne. If small skirmishes happen or people get seperated in a team fight it plays to Vayne's strength. It's also pretty rare for more than one person to focus Vayne at a time in solo que since many people tunnel vision. People also don't think too much about counter picking. They usually play their main, a few subs, and nothing else

SlaktarTasken1 votes

{quoted}

It's also the fact that in solo que people aren't all that coordinated. This helps Vayne. If small skirmishes happen or people get seperated in a team fight it plays to Vayne's strength. It's also pretty rare for more than one person to focus Vayne at a time in solo que since many people tunnel vision. People also don't think too much about counter picking. They usually play their main, a few subs, and nothing else

All I can tell from the posts is that I really need to start learning and maining this champ. ^^ Those sneak buffs Riot have been putting on her shurely seem to be coming into play now. And the thought of being capable of soloing the juggs is just to tempting, call me a sellout. :,<

LaowPing1 votes

What ever helps you climb. I won't judge. Been trying to get better with her too so that I can stop worrying about whether or not my team is doing well, since the fed one's always kill the adc. Getting to the point where you can solo carry with Vayne is hard work though.

LadyRenly1 votes

That's because most people play team build or blind pick. Fact of the matter is, not everyone can draft. Kat mains for example. If you are low elo, she's banned almost every time

LaowPing1 votes

I was talking about in draft specifically since that's where I play the most.

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