A Tank OTP's Opinion on the Tank Itemization Update

The Yetii Rider··11 votes·1,115 views

Hey guys. So, the tank update has been out for a while and while I haven't been playing the game too much, when I have sat down and played I've been testing all kinds of different builds and I've come to a few conclusions about tank itemization. So, when Repetoir stated that he wants to do a follow up in 7.11, I hope he'll take some of these things into consideration.

Number One: Tanks Need to Build Too Many Stats Now This is mostly an older tank problem than a newer one, but older tanks already have enough crap to deal with without their itemization becoming problematic. Basically, the push to make tanks more reliant on building multiple health items AND at least one dual resistance item (item 3190 /item 3512 item 3193 ) leaves little room for anything else. Let's look at a typical tank build, shall we?

You need a jungle item, so that's item 1401 . Then you need boots, easy. item 3047 oritem 3111 . You also need Stoneplate item 3193 or some equivalent. Then you need an MR item and an armor item, both of which need to give some amount of health to make up for boots/Stoneplate not giving health. item 3065 /item 3742 works for our example. That leaves one item slot left, and that would probably be best served as an additional dual resistance item slot like item 3190 or the new item 3083 .

The main problem I have is that tanks have become so dependent on multiple item scaling to reduce their one item power spike that now they are being punished for building a particular stat they've always needed: mana. Nunu Amumu Singed Sejuani Malphite Rammus Chogath have all had crippling mana problems for years because they are intended to be forced into building mana items like item 3110 item 3025 or item 3102 (It had mana when many of these tanks were created).

An easy solution to something like this is to do the same thing Riot did when they made Gragas a jungling tank: give them some good base mana already! Gragas has FOUR HUNDRED mana at level 1, Nunu has 293! If you want us to stack armor, health and MR that's great, but we don't need to be stacking mana as well when mana does not appear on any item that gives at least two of the other (except item 3060 , but do you really want every jungle/top tank building Banner of Command in every game? That active doesn't need to be so widespread, same as when Zz'rot was constantly built).

Number Two: There Needs to be a Floor for Sieging

A lot of people are saying that tanks aren't lasting in fights, but they're not entirely correct. Tanks are lasting through some fights, it's just that the fights that they outlast don't lead to anything productive or memorable because they have nothing to contribute outside team fights.

I am not saying that marksmen should become useless, that's not my point at all, but there needs to be a floor on how much damage a champion can deal to objectives so that if you win a fight you aren't left feeling like you can't do anything because the enemy team managed to kill your one damage dealer. Right now, tanks cripple their team by playing well but being unable to contribute to winning the game in ways that divers, juggernauts and assassins can.

My solution: Against towers and epic monsters, if your auto attacks would deal less than (some number deemed appropriate by Riot)/level, they deal that number instead. This would be far less than a champion who built AD or AP, but would be far greater than a champion who was relying solely on base AD like a support or a jungle tank (who are also suffering from lower XP values and therefore have less base stats to contribute as well).

Number Three: Courage of the Colossus Needs Some Oomph Back - Now that we've lost quite a bit of health per purchase of tank items (and we are being encouraged to build more resistance items that do not offer health on wardens and vanguards), Courage of the Colossus could use some better base shielding. Poaching is annoying, sure, but the high cooldown should make it less problematic in lane than it was on launch. A simple solution, if you really are concerned about it being abused in lane, is to simply make it unable to proc unless there are at least two enemy champions nearby (similar to the hard stance you took with Irelia's Ionian Fervor). Boom, now it's not nearly as much of an issue in top lane, and it doesn't pose as much of a threat in early ganks. It is defined as a team fighting mastery only, and it can be buffed safely.

Number Four: Randuin's Omen is Absolutely Terrible - Seriously, this item is bad. Bad, bad, bad, and I have no idea why you thought its release form was a good idea. It's nice that it keeps track of the damage that the passive prevented now, but it sets you so far behind for the cost that you won't buy it until later (and if you do you are going to get punished hard for spending 2600 gold on not-stats) and by the time you do buy it, the enemy carry has had plenty of time to pick up a item 3036 anyway. 350 Health when we are buying at least two items that do not give any health (item 3047 item 3193 ) is unacceptable.

13 Comments

Kidorah2 votes

hm.... i wish i could see a video of you playing a tank, i imagine you simply walking toward an adc being protected by 5 team mate and you took all of their damage like a retard...i don't know...it seem like you play tank like that ...silver 3

WiegrafOfValor3 votes

Is that really your argument? wow are you 5

The Yetii Rider2 votes

That's pretty accurate, considering that I play Nunu and Nunu's only real option is to walk forward to engage. But considering I have a large amount of durability stats and Ice Blast to reduce incoming auto damage, I rarely feel the pain of ADCs. I usually die to fighters or skirmishers, while assassins and marksmen have a hard time killing me. That's just the champion though, but you are spot on on the playstyle. That comes with having no gap closer, which is like...half of the champions in the League.

Ralanr2 votes

Not a fan of option 2 honestly. It feels like it allows Riot to nerf tank base AD to shit without hurting their ability to push powers.

Now it is a big problem (being the last to live but have to real ability to push a tower is frustrating as a tank) that should be addressed at some point, but I'd like to see other ideas (not that I have anything).

The Yetii Rider1 votes

With towers gaining armor and taking damage based on penetration (the last stat you're ever going to build on any kind of tank), it really doesn't seem like there's much of an option. Even base AD isn't good. I played Zac in a custom game earlier and I was dealing 55 damage per auto to a tower at level 9, with Zac's attack speed. Even if the floor was 10 true damage per level, that would still be fantastic. You would actually be able to deal meaningful damage and you could win the game at level 18 if you manage to pull off a big team fight.

If the game goes into the late stages where one team fight decides everything for the enemy team, but it can still mean the game drags on if your team wins a fight but you can't win the game while the enemy top/jungle easily could because they're AD, that's not fair. You are just dead weight on the team at that point.

Ralanr1 votes

Yeah, but think about how this could lead to cutting the base AD of top lane tanks like Sion or Poppy? It would make their jungling potential a lot slower (and it already isn't as good as it could be for tanks that had jungle advertised as their secondary role) and push them to be better suited for supports because of how weak bot lane turret is.

I would be happy if I am wrong, but I feel giving tanks X automatic damage if their AD is too low against towers would do more harm than good against tanks.

At worst it would lead to gimping Sion's damage, which is only so high because of how unreliable his abilities are. Once you hurt that damage, you lose reason to pick him as a tank for solo laning.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

I'm against tanks solo laning anyways. It makes them too hard to balance properly because Cinderhulk is such a polarizing item. Either the champion is balanced properly around having 15% bonus health from items or they aren't, and then when they do get it they have too much health, or when they don't get it they have too little. From a numerical balance perspective it'd be much easier if all tanks were pushed into the jungle. Then they could all get bonus damage to monsters and their AD being lowered wouldn't affect their farming ability.

Regardless, having decent base AD now isn't helping them take towers, and I'm much more concerned with a tank's damage to towers than I am with their damage to champions. This rework was supposed to lower their damage to champions after all.

Ralanr2 votes

See that's where I tend to disagree. I'd rather not have tanks balanced around the jungle, mainly because of the slow jungle income and having to deal with the "Lee Sin bar".

Not to mention the jungle is the most constantly changing role as Riot changes it every preseason. Having tanks balanced around that means their playrate could be rather chaotic rather than having a more stable position in top.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

See that's where I tend to disagree. I'd rather not have tanks balanced around the jungle, mainly because of the slow jungle income and having to deal with the "Lee Sin bar".

Not to mention the jungle is the most constantly changing role as Riot changes it every preseason. Having tanks balanced around that means their playrate could be rather chaotic rather than having a more stable position in top.

The overwhelming majority of tanks jungle. Sion, Poppy, Malphite, Shen and Gnar are the only primary vanguards/wardens left in top lane now that Maokai is a support.

Ralanr1 votes

Yeah and I'd prefer Poppy and Sion be better balanced around top than jungle.

TacoTheKitten1 votes

[deleted]

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Shields are better when you have more resistances, but not if you just have no health. Tanks take quite a while to hit 3000 after the item changes.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

"A lot of people are saying that tanks aren't lasting in fights, but they're not entirely correct. Tanks are lasting through some fights, it's just that the fights that they outlast don't lead to anything productive or memorable because they have nothing to contribute outside team fights."

Hold up, riot won't let them have any impact outside of teamfights; example of the sunfire had 3 nerfs applied in a single patch. Was it a general use item? Sure, but it could've been changed to be a teamfight or a waveclear item, and riot denied it being useful for either; lowered range, lowered damage, lowered defense. They've been biased against tanks being viable for years.

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