@Meddler & @Reav3 - Karma is Not a Full-Fledged Support Here is why.

Winterkill··12 votes·842 views

You label her as a mage on your main site. Wikipedia lables her as a mage and then controller. You admit years ago that she was intended to be played as a support, but that wasn't actually where people were playing her. As a mage, Karma has one damage ability and that is Q and Q+R, which falls off greatly after level 6. Karma has nothing else in her kit that plays like a mage. You purposely removed her AP scalings as a mage throughout the game. You purposely removed her shield bomb that did damage to enemies. You purposely created support Karma when you label her as a mage, when you have openly admitted that she was played more in top and mid before her rework . . . . and you fail to do any work on her in the past 4 years to restore her as a mage. You are promoting the most boring and unthematic playstyle on her by forcing her to sit in the back, spam E+R, buy shield enhancing items to further force her shield-bot playing style, and purposely ignore the fact that after level 6 she does hardly any damage to anyone but a squishy target . . . . .

http://imgur.com/a/BZfa3

http://imgur.com/a/xdx04

> Originally envisioned as a support, Karma’s fringe successes actually came from players using her in the top or mid lanes as an AP burst mage with support abilities, much like Zilean or Morgana. We like this direction and want to encourage you to boost both her offensive and support abilities by building AP. We also want to make sure she can hold her own as a solo or with a lane partner. > > Finally, we’ve updated her skills so allies are reliant on Karma, but Karma’s not reliant on them. She’s got enough power at her fingertips to feel strong as a mage or as a support without teammates having to work in perfect concert for you to be effective."

Fix the labeling on your website so Wikipedia and other resources will say she is nothing more than a shield bot support . . . . or restore parts of her current kit to that of a mage. Laziness, hypocritical responses, and excuses are not doing you any justice with your comments saying you care about the champion or her REAL mains. There is work you can do right now, minor work, that would restore her identity as a mage but also make her role as an enchanter different and more fun. There is nothing fun about sitting in the back, spamming one button after level 6, building shield enhancing items, and ignoring her presence as a mage when you have labeled her as a mage. There is work you can do RIGHT NOW that can satisfy her role as a mage so when you can be bothered to give Karma another VGU to correct mistakes your previous Game Developers ruined on her. There are things that work great on new Karma. There is a lot that changed her too much, took away too much from her, and you are ignoring it. Fix it.

15 Comments

SilverSquid5 votes

I am not comfortable calling anyone a "real" main or not. But it seems like the hole Karma once filled (even after her rework) is empty now, and the one she is filling now is crowded with other enchanters.

And I have yet to be explained to, why that is. Because it can't be on purpose, right?

Right?

chipndip11 votes

It is on purpose. To the very least, she's a strong and viable pick in that hole.

SilverSquid2 votes

But a boring one, that also pushes out other viable picks in that hole. From a design perspective this doesn't make sense.

chipndip11 votes

That won't be fixed unless Riot actually takes the time to address weaker champs in the role, as well as the lack of item diversity.

SilverSquid2 votes

That would be nice. But not pushing Karma into there in the first place would've been nice too

chipndip11 votes

Like I said: Karma's a support as well as a mid AND a top. When she's in the support role, she's going to reflect the role's problems.

Tank Karma and mid Karma all have decent viability to them, as well as support. That's not the issue. Your issue is that support Karma, the one in the limelight, is most likely fucking boring and stale. Am I around the ballpark on that?

SilverSquid2 votes

When she's in the support role, she's going to reflect the role's problems.

Problems she didn't have before Riot started removing shieldbomb from her, pushing some inappropriate CC onto her and overbuffing what's left of her. That's a particularly common in the support role, as far as I am aware.

Your issue is that support Karma, the one in the limelight, is most likely fucking boring and stale.

Close. My issues is that she is a mixed bag of missed opportunities, missunderstood characteristica and misstreated thematics. Whenever Riot tried to improve her, they kept making her stronger and healthier (well, most of the time), but robbing her of what made her Karma in the first place. She appears to be one of the few champions out there, that lost character, depth and thematics over the years. And that's contrary to everything Riot keeps preaching whenever they do a touchup on any champion.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

Problems she didn't have before Riot started removing shieldbomb from her, pushing some inappropriate CC onto her and overbuffing what's left of her. That's a particularly common in the support role, as far as I am aware.

Removing damage and forcing you into being a sustain bot? Yes, that is one of the main issues with support right now, and Karma got it right in the chin.

Close. My issues is that she is a mixed bag of missed opportunities, missunderstood characteristics and mistreated thematics. Whenever Riot tried to improve her, they kept making her stronger and healthier (well, most of the time), but robbing her of what made her Karma in the first place. She appears to be one of the few champions out there, that lost character, depth and thematics over the years. And that's contrary to everything Riot keeps preaching whenever they do a touchup on any champion.

I mean, Riot does a shit ton of crap that's contrary to the shit they preach. Difference is that, when it comes to support and its champions, it's so blatant it's insulting. At least with other reworks, even if they fail, you can see that they were trying to deliver something good. For supports, it's decision after decision that makes me wonder "Why is this a 5v5 game again if you obviously don't want it to be?".

SilverSquid2 votes

Removing damage and forcing you into being a sustain bot?

I mean, Karma is still a pokelane, not sustain....

At least with other reworks, even if they fail, you can see that they were trying to deliver something good.

I dunno, I happened to live through the "I buy boots and wards all game" times of supporting, and I think it has become better. But an enchanter update is direly needed. Or maybe I am missing some updates you are talking about, if so, please remind me.

JamesTheMage172 votes

I don't even need even need to beyond when you said she only has one damage ability, being her Q/RQ. First of all that's not true, she has a W... (RW) Second, her RQ does not fall behind Lategame, it literally does enough to AT LEAST lower them enough for her W to kill. If they're hit by both ticks it's usually lights out for them.

chipndip11 votes

Her R+Q does fall off by late game. She as a whole falls off by late game. That's why her fallback pattern is R+E.

Aquafuge1 votes

doesn't Karma's w deal damage, and when it gets enhanced by her r it gives lifesteal/spellvamp .

SilverSquid1 votes

Yes W does damage. No it doesnt give spellvamp, it regains Karma a % of her missing hp at the start and finish of the tether.

Aquafuge2 votes

I stand corrected, thank you for clearing that up.

CrazyBear19871 votes

I don't think they want her to be a "Full-fledged support"

She has a stun, a shield and a slow, no heal.

but heal's does not equal Support. Brand is considered support, and he just has damage and a wonky stun.

Can't explain the direction they going for, but it looks intentional.

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