seriously, zhonya is a defensive item for mages who have downtimes and are as vulnerable as minions during that time
not for assasins who use it to remove their only counterplay -getting collapsed on after unleashing hell, or getting punished for bad engage)
those assasins are meant to wait for an opening, not to bust in, wreck someone and wait for their team to clean up
Brotha1 votesZhonyas shouldn't be in the game period. It is a cheap gimmick that allows mages to flash in 1v5, blow up two carries, and then zhonyas while their team rushes in to save them. Zhonyas turns mages INTO AoE assassins.
If you want to dive into the enemy team and blow all your cooldowns, be prepared to die for it.
Edit: Forgot the King of this trick. 
SmokinSickStyle2 votesOr at least like the guy above you said, it shouldn't have 120 AP, that's what i always thought too.
I mean, by rushing Zhonyas against an AD mid such as Talon, completely destroys him because he deals 100% physical damage and meanwhile the enemy has gotten a shitton of armor, it gets also a good amount of AP which transfers into damage.
Complete Zhonya and abuse the fuck out of it, you get both immunity to the enemy laner+extreme powersipke damage FOR a DEFENSIVE item.
There's a reason Zhonya is CORE on any mage, heck even supports buy it nowadays if they need it, give it 60 AP and look how many rush it first item when they find any AD mid.
Vistha Kai1 votesOr make it 
for mages.
grants only defense and active, while adding 
makes it increase damage while being defensive item.
Currently 
is kinda... Yeah. Why not to make it more useful? I mean its cost is exactly the same as but QSS is vastly superior to Armguard for a mere component.
Knight SoIaire 2 votesIf you want to dive into the enemy team and blow all your cooldowns, be prepared to die for it.
exactly my point
SEKAI1 votesBlame Riot for thinking that putting 120 AP on a 50 armour item with an extreme defensive active, which hands down is the game's best, is a good idea.
It's like saying that 80 AD looks good on Thornmail or something.
Vistha Kai3 votesBecause 
is a defensive item that grants damage, right?
How about ?
SEKAI1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EOpkEAaZ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-05-09T13:09:43.221+0000)
Til when that has the equivalent amount of stats efficiency, same level of supreme active and the same total cost.
Vistha Kai3 votesYou can't Zhonya when hard CC'd. You can always QSS + speed buff.
SEKAI2 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EOpkEAaZ,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-09T13:45:20.143+0000)
You can't Zhonya when hard CC'd. You can always QSS + speed buff.
Indeed but one can't deny Zhonya's active is more useful in most cases, except when you're cc'ed to death in which case your demise at least brought some team advantage over the enemy's because they now have near to no cc left.
Zhonya is more gold efficient than the entire Scimitar with just the base stats alone, tbh, it really helps to give Zhonya a nerf. A defensive item choice with one of the the highest offensive budget in the entire game is a little too much.
Vistha Kai1 votesShould I read that as "So we want yet another 120 AP item that will make Kata/LB/whatever more powerful while hurting other champions"? You ought to work in Riot.
If you waste all CC on one person, Zhonya or not, you deserve to lose. Nerfing an item is not a solution... Hell, what is the problem you are talking about again?
SEKAI1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EOpkEAaZ,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-09T14:25:30.849+0000)
Should I read that as "So we want yet another 120 AP item that will make Kata/LB/whatever more powerful while hurting other champions"? You ought to work in Riot.
If you waste all CC on one person, Zhonya or not, you deserve to lose. Nerfing an item is not a solution... Hell, what is the problem you are talking about again?
And precisely that no one would waste all their cc on a single target with a Zhonya that makes it even better isn't it? It's not like a team can only build 1 Zhonya, every AP can build and benefit from it as long as the entire enemy team isn't full AP.
I simply proposed to nerf Zhonya to a place alongside the likes of Maw or at best, Scimitar, where yer it's got both offense and defense but nothing too extreme in both category, unlike Zhonya which excels in both for whatever reason.
Vistha Kai1 votesZhonya is really telegraphed. If your team won't react, enemies can ignore you for 2.5 seconds then kill you anyway, before you can react to anything.
SEKAI1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EOpkEAaZ,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-09T15:38:39.933+0000)
- You can't compare AP item to AD items assuming 1AD=1AP.
- I will repeat myself this one time "If you waste all CC on one person, Zhonya or not, you deserve to lose".
Zhonya is really telegraphed. If your team won't react, enemies can ignore you for 2.5 seconds then kill you anyway, before you can react to anything.
For the item efficiency part, the stats are calculated and pasted on LoLwiki, correct or not it's at least a rough guide on how useful items are.
Zhonya's Hourglass
The base stats are 109.4% gold efficient without the active.
Mercurial Scimitar
Mercurial Scimitar is 96.75% gold efficient.
The "waiting for 2.5 second then kill you" scenario only happens when your team utterly fails after your initiation - retreat into stasis routine (or it's a final arse pull after you're already wiped), it's not the item's fault for being used in failure situations.
According to LoLKing, Scimitar has a popularity of <2% while Zhonya has around averagely 17-18%, while yes Scimitar seems to be sporting a higher win rate but consider how minimal its buyer pool is it's pretty safe to assume the win rate stats is skewed by quite a bit.
For the most part, apart from some situational and uncommon but not impossible cases, Zhonya is both mechanically and statistically superior thus making it a better item overall.
Am I asking for a buff on Scimitar? Hell no, it's just Zhonya really could use a nerf by now, since both items were supposed to mirror each other to a certain degree. I am mostly fine with the place Scimitar is sitting at, but definitely not the same for Zhonya.
Vistha Kai1 votesFirst of all half of Zhonya's popularity is because of... Morgana. Yes, because of one champion. Morgana without Zhonya is a completely worthless and even supports rush it right after getting Sightstone. Secondly, Scimitar is usually finished last. If you add QSS popularity it nearly triples.
The "waiting for 2.5 second then kill you" scenario happens more often in teamfights than you want to accept. It's a lot more useful in a 1v1 situation and that's still not aganist every champion.
Cenobite Azaziel1 votesEstasis should be a summoners spell. It's way to powerful to ocuppy a item slot. It will never be a waste since it is the best AP item in the game.
The Bearded Bard1 votesTop laners shouldn't be able to build the jungle item but they do.
I'll be fine with a Zhonyas nerf once there's a viable option for sustain on AP champs. Do you realize how much ridiculously better lifesteal is than spellvamp?
Knight SoIaire 1 votesTop laners shouldn't be able to build the jungle item but they do.
and what does riot do ... they are already planning on destroying the entire jungle just to stop this
i dont mind the item being used by other roles but i find it 100% not agreable for a class who's main problem is to get it and get out, to use an item that takes care of get out problem just by pressing a button
Desiderium1 votesWhat assassin has the chance to build Zhonya's without completely gimping their damage without being an AP assassin which is already a broken concept anyway?
Dr Poro1 votesIdk how ap assassins could affort an item that has the highest raw AP value in the game. Luden's echo, deathcap, zhonya's, void staff, sorc boots are kind of the go to items. You'll still have a sixth slot left for lich bane (if you have a spell that triggers on hit), archangel (if you can stack tear efficiently), rod of ages or a more defensive item.
Zhonya's is actually one of the more offensive items to get. That being said, Riot probably doesn't mind having an OP item for mages as that makes mages as a class more viable (especially in the past when assassins were the norm). Zhonya's is the best item lategame for any ap caster in the game, there's no doubt about that. But that doesn't mean it should just be gutted. Nerfing zhonya's would affect the game balance in a way you can't really predict, so if it's done, it must be done carefully.
Knight SoIaire 1 voteswell like any nerf, but i dont realy ask for a nerf, i ask for a change that will make zhonya less desirable for assasins while leaving it as a good purchase for mages
Knight SoIaire 1 voteskatarina and fizz for instance there is also le blanc kassa got removed from ap assasins
zhonya still gives crap load of ap, for the same price rabaddons give only 30 ap more without counting the % of the masteries runes etc
but as an early buy, first or second item, there is barely any drawback to picking zhonyas over other items, its a very little less of damage, for much more survivability and the epic passive
Krigjer1 votesI dunno.
A well-played Zhonyas is something great to watch and they deserve it when it happens, but more often than not, I just see them panic and Zhonya at the wrong time, while I wait for the duration to tick off and throw out some CC for my team to eat them. It's like GA. Good job, you bought yourself a few seconds more before death.