So CC creep is a result of mobility creep...

Irelia Bot·Aug 20, 2017·5 votes·728 views

But mobility creep is the result of the inherent advantage that ranged have over melee and was a way for melee to have a chance to be useful.

9 Comments

MartyrofsandAug 20, 20174 votes

So originally when the game first came out Ashe was king ADC because of her perma-slow against the likes of Garen who simply wasn't going to get on top of her. When that became a problem we started to get Jax/Irelia/Lee who could close the gap pretty easily to get onto her and made it very easy to kill her. As a result we started to see Graves/Ezreal/Corki coming up as mobile ADCs to counter mobile bruisers. To counter this we start seeing Zed/Leblanc/Yasuo/etc coming up to jump onto these ADCs and kill them. In response to these hyper mobile champs we get Kalista who pretty much just broke everything.

This is largely the history of mobility creep. Now in the event you don't have hyper mobility, like supports until Rakan came out, what do you do? You pick things like Alista/Annie/Janna/Malz who either have point-click CC or wide AoE CC that hits everything in order to compete. Not even just them Ryze/Yasuo/grag/etc fill the roll of having point-click CC or AoE CC that can hit a number of people even if they dash.

Now this isn't 100% how everything work, we still see champs like Twitch/Ashe/Varus/Jhin/etc who make it in to team comps for their utility or insane scaling damage. But again that is more CC being put into a team comp that further prevents immobile melee from seeing play. This is the relationship between mobility and CC creep and frankly it would of been better if they just left the mobility at Irelia/Jax levels while ADCs have little of it and need to depend on supports to keep them alive, but mobility creep started happening long before anything resembling a standard meta came into being.

Irelia BotAug 20, 20171 votes

You gave the full explanation where as I only gave what started it.

HaIlMonitorAug 20, 20171 votes

I would say it is the opposite. When you have champs like Yi, and kat that have been in the game forever, they add more CC. Which means more champs need things to dodge it.

Irelia BotAug 20, 20171 votes

I am talking about why they made Irelia and Xin as they did which let to more melee having a gap closer. Melee were not popular back then and Irelia and Xin were given tools to reach ranged champs.

AhristocatsAug 20, 20171 votes

How is CC creep a result of mobility creep? All today's CC fucks over immobile melees more than mobile melees, best example is galio's taunt

CC creep is a result of riot design team being dumb af and doing terrible decisions, that's all

Irelia BotAug 20, 20173 votes

This is not relating to juggernauts at all but the classes that have the means to get to squishes faster.

Juggernauts have to deal with the outcome of Riot enforcing a meta of a ranged attack damage carry always being mandatory instead of an optional choice based on personal preference or strategic advantages VS disadvantages.

I want marksmen to be optional instead of mandatory.

MartyrofsandAug 20, 20171 votes

Riots attempts to create the optional marksman has always caused several issues. The one of most recent memory was putting Morde in bot lane which broke everything to the point morde was perma pick/ban in all games. That isn't healthy for the game anymore than having to put an ADC in bot lane. At one point we started to see some variety in the bot lane, Ziggs went bot as the "ADC" not to long ago because ADC was so bad and his ability to 2-3 shot turrets with his satchel, lichbane and passive. At the end of the day that is the biggest reason teams have an ADC to begin with, to safety siege turrets. It's why Caitlyn can be nerfed to oblivion but as long as she keeps her long range and safety will be generally usable as a turret killer.

There are some champs who play the roll of turret killer well, TF/Ziggs for example and Riot has tried to improve the ability of AP champs to kill turrets allowing them to do part of their AP damage to turrets with their AA. That said it's unlikely we will ever fully see the markman be removed from the meta anymore than we would see supports, or a jungler removed from the meta.

BroreliaAug 20, 20171 votes

I think Ziggs bot was a good example of this meta being challenged and an example of how it could be healthy and should not be resisted like it is.

Mord taking dragon and running down the lane with it not so much though.

MartyrofsandAug 21, 20171 votes

I would agree and you would notice a difference between Ziggs bot and Morde bot. Ziggs going bot lane happened organically based on changes to the meta, to ADC, to items and to his ability changes. By contrast Riot simply decided "we are going to make morde go bot lane and we are going to make it work" and it was toxic as hell.

Riot, and players for that matter, have you learn that you can't force a meta and it's stupid to try to decide what meta you want the game to be in. Don't make changes to address one thing or another, unless something is insanely broken, and instead make changes with the intent to spice up the game, plants/new items/new champs are all ways to positively change the game without breaking it. Let the players find the best strategies and the meta will evolve organically in a healthy way. Sadly after Ziggs became a bot laner they decided to trash it when really all they needed to do was address how quickly he could take a turret, 3 shotting was pretty insane.