Riot wants mages to roleplay as DoTA champions

FrostQueensPlane·Apr 17, 2018·62 votes·15,517 views

They want mages to be gated by mana the entire game. But only mages, because

finish the sentence

66 Comments

LVL99 Helper TKApr 17, 201844 votes

because ADC hehe xD

EpìphanyApr 18, 201835 votes

because Meddler is adc main.

Spank the FoxApr 18, 201820 votes

{quoted}

because Meddler is adc main.

Funny, people said Meddler was a Janna main during Ardent.

Keep your story consistent

NaalithApr 18, 20184 votes

No but Meddler actually is an ADC main. He plays a lot of Varus from what I gather.

SaiannaApr 19, 20181 votes

Who said janna can't go AD >.>?

BionessApr 17, 201820 votes

DotA "Heroes" not Champions.

They want mages to be gated by mana the entire game. But only mages, because a badass sword/gun beats some whimpy spells any day.

RyzeTheSmurfMageApr 18, 20181 votes

Especially a machine gun against spells that obliderated an entire f***** Shuriman capital city Xerath

Sp33d Zer0Apr 18, 20181 votes

Technically Xeraths spells didn't collapse shurima, the sun disk did. He just absorbed it

Your DemonApr 18, 201818 votes

because mages kill their sweet adcs

was expecting a imba post about dota , dota is actually pretty balanced

Soraka RulesApr 18, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Demon Joker 787,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ENUXm2Ym,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-18T01:14:18.454+0000)

because mages kill their sweet adcs

was expecting a imba post about dota , dota is actually pretty balanced

Dota is only 'balanced' because every hero is equally broken.

DisembarkApr 18, 20185 votes

Dota is not "balanced" though? At least not according to their forums.

They also complain about the same shit such as "fixed matchmaking" or "uncarryable teams" or "shit metas".

Surprise, vocal minorities go on forums to bitch - pretty much same is true for most games. The only difference is that Dota forums don't have the same upvote/downvote system - so it doesn't propogate as much circlejerk.

SexRaptorApr 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Dota is not "balanced" though? At least not according to their forums.

They also complain about the same shit such as "fixed matchmaking" or "uncarryable teams" or "shit metas".

Surprise, vocal minorities go on forums to bitch - pretty much same is true for most games. The only difference is that Dota forums don't have the same upvote/downvote system - so it doesn't propogate as much circlejerk.

Obviously true, but i'd like to see a comparison between played Heroes in 'the International' versus 'lcs' (or whatever). If I'm not mistaken the international (if not last year, the year before) had less than 15 heroes go unpacked.

Which is not something I can fathom in league.

ThePaperluckyApr 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Obviously true, but i'd like to see a comparison between played Heroes in 'the International' versus 'lcs' (or whatever). If I'm not mistaken the international (if not last year, the year before) had less than 15 heroes go unpacked.

Which is not something I can fathom in league.

The year before. Last year there was only 5 unpacked, out of 114.

DisembarkApr 20, 20181 votes

The way Dota works, some champions straight hard counter other champions. Even the hardest counter in League isn’t even close to how hard you can counter in Dota. It’s a design philosophy different - Riot didn’t want to design hard counters, rather soft counters. Which ends up making the meta more easy to “figure out”.

There are still some really strong soft counters. Kind of like when Lucian was 44% win rate, but still got picked in LCS top lane because he hard counters GP (a meta pick).

TeslynApr 20, 20181 votes

adc mains want to run in front of the tanks / peel.. they then die like they should.

the number of games i have been in with an adc pushing in an off lane all alone and getting murdered.. or them running ahead of a fight.. they should get blown up when out of position.

Wild GeeseApr 18, 20188 votes

OK i get what you're saying, except If any mage was as strong as Invoker I don't think this game would last a month. [sg-miss-fortune]

DuRayApr 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wild Geese,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ENUXm2Ym,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-18T00:49:20.248+0000)

OK i get what you're saying, except If any mage was as strong as Invoker I don't think this game would last a month. [sg-miss-fortune]

thats what makes dota soooo good, the fact that i can que up and know that if i pop off, my team can play behind me and let me carry, in the same way i can support good players that can carry. In league if you play anything that isnt meta and you have that one bad player on your team its insta loss.

Sun Wu RyuumokuApr 18, 20185 votes

i thinks its great, and the good path to take.

Personnaly when i play MonkeyKing Talon or even Taliyah (a bit less since new itemization) i need to manage manage my mana. its a skill every players should developp...

Some will talk about adc... but its a different topic (and they will be adressed too )

DW DianaApr 18, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ENUXm2Ym,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-18T01:10:10.569+0000)

i thinks its great, and the good path to take.

Personnaly when i play or even (a bit less since new itemization) i need to manage manage my mana. its a skill every players should developp...

Some will talk about adc... but its a different topic (and they will be adressed too )

lol! Taliyah?!?!?!? You're actually comparing TALIYAH to other mages???? Where the hell have you been? Taliyah is the fan-girl of riot. Yes you have to manage your mana until you get tear, but you have stupid damage, brain-dead playstyle (this is coming from a MALZAHAR MAIN!), kill pressure level 1, roam that stops your opponents from escaping AND the best wave-clear in the game! Try playing any other mage, and you'll understand. Hell, try malzahar! You'll find him back in the void of teir 5 rocking back and forth remembering the 2 months he was viable before riot nerfed him to the ground. The upside for him is he'll have plenty of company soon.

Sun Wu RyuumokuApr 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ENUXm2Ym,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-04-18T08:00:20.922+0000)

lol! Taliyah?!?!?!? You're actually comparing TALIYAH to other mages???? Where the hell have you been? Taliyah is the fan-girl of riot.

Thats why i say i need less mana management since ap itemization change.

Yes you have to manage your mana until you get tear, but you have stupid damage, brain-dead playstyle (this is coming from a MALZAHAR MAIN!), kill pressure level 1, roam that stops your opponents from escaping AND the best wave-clear in the game!

Kill pressure lv1 ??? no offense... but git gud.

Try playing any other mage, and you'll understand. Hell, try malzahar! You'll find him back in the void of teir 5 rocking back and forth remembering the 2 months he was viable before riot nerfed him to the ground. The upside for him is he'll have plenty of company soon.

i also play Khartus, Annie, Ekko (not really a mage), ziggs & Xerath. Thats all. I play malz until a rework, his kit is boring af, he's still viable. His kit's too broken (his ult) to make him unviable. At least at my elo he's viable (plat). Every time he have his ult its free kill, after yeah at lower elo jng wont use this advantage....

Risen29Apr 18, 20185 votes

It's not much of a strategy game without limited resources. You don't have to make smart decisions about when and where to use your abilities, you just spam them whenever they are up.

This game was better back when running out of mana was a real concern for every champion.

DoktorKaiserApr 18, 20183 votes

I agree, but champions who actually need mana gutting are ADCs and bruisers, mages kind of have infinite mana atm but they are the last class that should recieve these nerfs, not the first, because they solely depend on mana. As for tanks and assassins they seem to be going oom rather quickly so they are fine imo. And then of course you have the braindead manaless champions, but they are the problem that can't be handled because RIOT not only won't rework them into having any gating but also keep releasing more and more.

TeslynApr 20, 20181 votes

if a mage builds full damage they sacrifice sustain. its a balance.

Dope SoloApr 18, 201813 votes

{quoted}

It's not much of a strategy game without limited resources. You don't have to make smart decisions about when and where to use your abilities, you just spam them whenever they are up.

Yasuo

Sp33d Zer0Apr 18, 20183 votes

I appreciate the memes and hate yasuo as much as the next guy, but minions are his main resource for his mobility, so I feel like it's not as apt to use him as someone like Garen or Riven

Dark NephthysApr 18, 20186 votes

{quoted}

It's not much of a strategy game without limited resources. You don't have to make smart decisions about when and where to use your abilities, you just spam them whenever they are up.

This game was better back when running out of mana was a real concern for every champion.

I'll agree to this when all ADCs start to have an ammo system for their auto attacks like Graves Jhin .

RyzeTheSmurfMageApr 18, 20182 votes

That's the reason the only adc I have ever played when I got autofilled adc was Jhin. One of the only ADCS that need brain for his autos.

Killer of Night9Apr 18, 20184 votes

The moment when you see a mana change for mana gating the mage then you remember that one item still exhist. item 3042 <------- Tell me who's AD champ is mana gated anymore? Even Ezreal could get a item 3508 if the muramasa effect wouldn't sinergy with his Q.. Even it's not used for what it should be (Remember the old version of essence reaver? AD + Lifesteal and a mana effect? Well noone needed that because noone adc was mana gating and ezreal still builded tear) and right now it's build only for Critical stat+CDR. But sure mage aren't suppose to use spell on wawe so let's give to doran ring +5 dmg on hit. Result -> Ahri Kayle They're rewarded because they got a good attack speed base so they can actually use that. Annie Karthus They has the lowest attack speed i've ever seen and/or the lowest projectile for a mage. Ziggs Velkoz Who even need an artillery that can farm easy the wawe? Let's go all in because i need to auto the Cannon minion that give 60 gold because i had no mana, oh yeah don't forget that enemy zed has ult up so let's go on his range so he can ult me.

BârdApr 18, 20182 votes

Draven is spam-happy with his W and doesn't like going reaver. Illaoi spams every ability she has for lane dominance, and the only mana items she can go are corrupting pot and MAYBE Sheen (though that makes her a lot squishier). Sivir has a very strained mana pool. Her shield helps, but you can't always rely on it for mana sustain. Reaver helps, but it's still barely enough. Khazix has issues when he's played in lanes, but his mana issues are usually alleviated by jungle buffs/items. Ezreal needs tons of mana. Muramana is good on him for damage, but a big part of what makes it so core is that he needs a metric fuckton of mana. Varus only for builds centered around his Q. Gangplank in the early game, he has enough issues to prevent him from poking and sustaining without limits.

Automated RivenApr 18, 20181 votes

You forgot Lucian. Late game he can run out of Mana during a teamfight if it lasts long enough.

BârdApr 18, 20181 votes

Yeah I considered him, but I haven't played him in years so I didn't know if he still had those problems.

Ariel the CruelApr 18, 20182 votes

Fun trivia, Sivir's mana pool is so heavily strained because they want her using spell shield too regen.

Lordk0zApr 18, 20182 votes

So when do we get the ability that grants an invincible morgana shield for 10 seconds and the Point and Click Bouncing Cask that stuns every hit and can bounce between two champs to permastun them?

Disclaimer: Those are not ultimates. Those are basic abilities that have a CD of 18 and 14 seconds respectively.

I am not joking.

marpatt11Apr 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So when do we get the ability that grants an invincible morgana shield for 10 seconds and the Point and Click Bouncing Cask that stuns every hit and can bounce between two champs to permastun them?

Disclaimer: Those are not ultimates. Those are basic abilities that have a CD of 18 and 14 seconds respectively.

I am not joking.

There are different power levels for different games. Just because X ability would be good in Y moba doesn't mean its actually op.

Lordk0zApr 18, 20181 votes

I know, I was taking how they're supposed to be Dota Heroes now literally for cheap laughs

Ariel the CruelApr 18, 20182 votes

They want mages to be gated by mana the entire game. But only mages, because . . .

#. . .WHERE'S FENMORE!?

Don LupusApr 18, 20182 votes

It's annoying how they do it in such a one-sided way. They want mages to be totally under control, gated by mana and whatsoever. But they STILL don't feel like actually targeting ADCs. They still feel it's fair to have champs like Zed, Katarina, Riven or Yasuo not having mana at all.

VelvetCrotchApr 18, 20181 votes

they will target adc in midseason (this summer) i read a comment from a Rioter here in the boards about it. they want to change the most adc items and nerf adc statwise over the board.

T4underboltApr 18, 20182 votes

In my opinion every class should have mana issues and you should be having a heavy mana build to actually have sustain source of mana. Meanwhile most of the champs cna buy merely one mana item that gives some mana and be fine. And im not talking about mages only.

GorillazNtheMystApr 19, 20182 votes

I agree. I have always thought it was unfair in the first place that some champs have to play around energy or mana pools but there are others who have no limits other than CDs.

SenorBobbersApr 18, 20182 votes

Except Dota heroes at least have items with mana regen (lol has what? 5? and all of them are specifically for supports) and ways to recover mana (soul ring, arcane boots).

WolfeurApr 18, 20181 votes

Because mana should be a balance point for mages. As long as mages don't have mana problem, then can't deal more damage. If you want your mages to be more powerful (which the boards seem to be all for), then they need a weakness with that.

Since ADC are the durable champions, those who can fight for very long thanks to manaless AA, mages need mana-gating in order to legitimately overpower ADC in short fights.

DW DianaApr 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Because mana should be a balance point for mages. As long as mages don't have mana problem, then can't deal more damage. If you want your mages to be more powerful (which the boards seem to be all for), then they need a weakness with that.

Since ADC are the durable champions, those who can fight for very long thanks to manaless AA, mages need mana-gating in order to legitimately overpower ADC in short fights.

But they DON'T overpower adcs in short fights. They've all been nerfed so badly that 1 aa from an adc does more damage than their spells, costs nothing, gives hp and have no cooldown (except jhin who only gets 4 before reloading)

WolfeurApr 18, 20181 votes

As I said, they need mana-gating to justify a higher power. Right now, their power lies within their range and utility, because their mana currently doesn't justify the damage. With more mana management needed, Riot will be able to gradually give more specific power to mages. Maybe not flat damage but more range, bigger AoE, more CC, etc…

CytheGuyApr 18, 20182 votes

Graves too

VelvetCrotchApr 18, 20181 votes

because unlike other heroes mages have over the board the best waveclear. some of them - like veigar - scale too much into lategame, which already neded to be nerfed.

and i, personally, dislike champs who doesnt use ANY resource at all -> like Riven, Mundo, Garen etc.

Titanium70Apr 18, 20185 votes

Speaking about Waveclear... item 3087 ...

AirKingNeoApr 18, 20181 votes

speaking of shiv, it lost 10-20 damage and it's massive 65% damage boost on minions.

That cut the damage down by a third. Consider the fact Twitch's winrate dropped like a rock when they nerfed his E because of waveclear, imagine losing a third of your damage.

remakoroApr 18, 20184 votes

2-3 AA vs Several abilities that have CD and mana costs "BEST WAVE CLEAR"

Oh wait! but adc can use abilities for wave clear as well! And can do pretty much the same thing... HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Exactly which part of getting fucked by minion with item 3060 you find the best?