Phreak on the Ahri changes

Sir ArmaMalum··7 votes·2,521 views

sauce, Reddit

tl;dr Ahri was too safe with her new mobility, her W range nerf was to forces her to take risks to pull off a full rotation and her Q mana costs were to prevent her from being able to stick in the back and Q spam if she got ahead. Other tidbits on early laning and comparisons as well.

This is all built around the assumption that "her core weakness is that she can be ganked pre-6" I'm sorry, but that's ludicrous. She used to be easier to gank pre-6, and now it's a bit harder. Ok, so that changed a little bit. So what? Here's the thing: Ahri didn't have a real weakness. If the only weakness you can point out is, "Well, for 6 minutes you could kill her, but for the other 35 she could do whatever she wanted" that's stupid. That's not good design, that's not healthy, that's not anything good. For what it's worth, a lot of the reason LeBlanc is frustrating is because of this - She just sort of does whatever she wants all game and you just have to deal with it. You also mentioned "ruining her build diversity." It's not mentioned anywhere outside the intro. So I'm really not sure where that point's headed. And Ahri already IS squishy. She's one of the frailest champions in the game. Even Annie has an Armor/MR shield. Cassiopeia builds fairly tanky with (RoA/Seraph + Rylai's). The point of the changes is to actually EXPOSE the squishiness. Her W puts her in Equilibrium Strike range. GOOD. See, here's the thing about Ahri now. She's really mobile. She has medium-speed medium-range skillshots. She also has non-skillshots with very short range. You know what's cool about that? She can skirt around medium range poking with skillshots. She can also use her high mobility to get into close range and put herself at actual risk to land her reliable damage. Sounds like an actual weakness! She's in range of Equilibrium Strike if she wants to do more than poke. And then skillfully use her movement speed buffs and dashes (with long cooldowns after) in order to succeed. Sounds a hell of a lot better than, "Well, now it's after 6 minutes, her core weakness is gone." Also, increasing the mana cost of Q DOES affect her early game: If she can't simply spam Q on cooldown for immense sustain and easy wave clear, she's going to have less overall sustain and forced to walk into autoattack range to last hit more often. Ultimately, it's always tricky dealing with reworks, either small- or large-scale. I'd consider Ahri's total changes now a small-scale rework. Ahri now: Is much more mobile than before. She's arguably the most mobile mage in the game who can't dash over walls before level 6. Has a medium-range poke pattern as well as a short-range all-in pattern that uses multiple rotations of spells (as opposed to Fizz just REQW'ing you, Ahri Q-R-E-W-R-Q-W-R-W) supported by a lot of mobility to keep her in the fight (as opposed to something like Jax who just tanks you until he gets multiple ulti hits) Ahri no longer: * Hits you with her entire kit from out of your counter-attack range and then dashes away And of course, any time a champion "no longer" does something, everyone who's attached to it gets really scared, because a specific thing their champion used to do doesn't exist any more. But really, Ahri shouldn't be hitting you with non-skillshots while dodging everything you ever do. If she's hitting you with non-skillshots, you should be able to hit her back. Ahri's power is in getting to choose when those windows are. That's always been the core power of Ahri: Her ability to choose those windows and if she chose wrong, say "Oh crap" and burn her other two Rs backwards.

--Phreak

13 Comments

Wînter Fox7 votes

The best part is she had weaknesses until about a week ago.

Borbland6 votes

"She has no weakness"

Well, at least she has manacosts. Yes, she's in a strong spot right now, but those nerfs hit her too hard, just nerf her slightly next patch, then see what happens. I mean, you're already doing this for Zed so...

AMYS GRAVE6 votes

Why are these things never communicated on riots own forums?

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Riot does not specifically designated a medium that its devs have to communicate on so it comes down to personal preference. Several Rioters prefer Reddit over the Boards, where as there are others such as Sweet, IS and Katey that prefer the Boards.

AMYS GRAVE6 votes

i understand what their policy is, but it doesn't make sense that the best source of information should be third party websites like the lol wiki, reddit, and surrender at 20 (which are prone to occasional errors, rumors, and misinformation). i don't want to follow all the devs across a dozen platforms just to keep up with the changes that they make without otherwise documenting them.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Why are these things never communicated on riots own forums?

cause the forums would explode if they did.

kirbyzama3 votes

If Ahri was healthy till the movement speed buff and now all of a sudden has no counterplay why is the movement speed not being held to blaim for this. Why must her already waning damage be touched? Sure she does really good damage in long engages but here is the kicker they are nerfing not only up front damage but with mana cost nerfs she is also getting her long engage combos nerfed and with range nerf on her w her reliability is nerfed. I'm fine for nerfing a champ with a high win AND pick rate but this is an across the board nerf bat whacking, even WW only got his ult hit. You lose your upfront, your overtime, your reliabilty(whatever she had as a skillshot champ) all in exchange for mobility that they want to punish you for using with high mana costs. So what was the idea for her play pattern? So we got a kite mage. So if the enemy is dumb enough to bronze chase you you can get a kill unless they run you oom of course. You have tons of ways to dodge the enemy but to what effect if you can't efficiently(dmg to mana cost ratio) hit them back?

This all has a slight hyperbolic twist to it of course I merely want to illustrate how these nerfs hit all aspects of her kit. Even when Fizz was nerfed they left his E alone and R was enhanced. When Riven was whacked with the nerf bat she kept her R and W the same. So what I want to know is if the MS on Q broke her why don't the nerf that? maybe shave some damage and call it a day? Why pull so much out of the kit just to make a new superfluous mechanic balanced? But I'm still going to play her because she is kinda like Riven...its really hard to make her actually bad and she is always fun.

Trundle Bundle1 votes

Exactly. It's short sighted not to immediately look at the move speed steroid for tweaks over doubling down and compressing her numbers to make it a requirement. Phreak is legitimately wrong in saying that Ahri didn't have weaknesses; Ezreal's initial design made Ahri versatile and adaptable, but left her vulnerable to more reliable lane bullies and, because of her longer burst window, made her heavily threatened by mages and assassins with tighter burst windows. Her mobility being locked away in her ultimate meant that forcing her to pop it defensively, even if it meant her getting away, greatly lessened both her kill potential and safety for a decent duration. It's the entire reason Ezreal refused to give Spirit Rush a Corki style charge system, but Riot's memory seems to have fogged.

The movespeed steroid removed many of these interactions. It makes her damage easier to guarantee, helps her hit and run much more formidably for lane trading, and gives her a source of fallback mobility for when her ult is on cooldown. It's certainly an interesting angle and not an inherently bad concept on its own, but there's no reason to cover those weaknesses right now.

Gray Fanchon1 votes

Well, Ahri sounds amazing. Time to pick her back up.

Alorasence1 votes

On a wall post he made all of 2 valid points.

Moonshade1 votes

The one thing I disagree with is being that close to land her fox fires, I think she should be at her AA range (550) or maybe slightly further (600) not 425 range (which is the range of Irelia's Equilibrium Strike that Phreak keeps referencing)

Woook3r1 votes

If Ahri still has charm, as long as she can lane phase then she can be a good champion for anyone who plays her.

Everyone who plays her should be lucky they get more mobility out of her. From my exp, the more mobile a champ is, the more fun they are in this game. Her base skin has really cool particle effects and a nice playstyle.

lDontLiftIcarry1 votes

Q buff made her broken. Hands down, Until its removed she's broken I've had a 100% winrate as ahri since this change. Not a single dropped game I even went 0/2 in lane a couple games ago and ended the game at 12/4/20 because We had 1 good skirmish are dragon that got me 3 assists and I was completely back in the game after that.

She's absolutely brojken. I have played less than 100 ahri games since her release I am In NO WAY an ahri player. It just goes to show how easy spiker champions are.

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