Suggested Fizz changes to tune him better.

HongChongDong··4 votes·636 views

Based off of my experience here's the changes I think would work: (Normally I'd provide my point of view as to my reasoning behind all of the changes bur its late, and I'm exhausted)

Up the base armor and remove the passive.

Passive: Damaging an enemy with Seastone trident or Chum the waters lets fizz ignore a % of the targets total MR for a period of time. This could scale with level, or could scale with AP up to a cap like it should for an AP assassin. At the sacrifice of one of his major abilities he gains increased assassination power and would replace his ability to fight tanks like other assassins that he lost through the removal of the % HP damage from his old W.

Fizz's current passive lacks the power in the early laning phase where it's meant to be effective and only hits full power during the late game where its total power is non existent in relation to what you'll be facing. If you take out the scaling and give all the power up front then it becomes too strong, if you increase its scaling even higher it still won't stack up enough to matter. This ability should be removed period and be replaced with a fitting passive for an assassin.


W:

  • Remove the DoT and add the raw power into upfront damage for the W. The best option to allocate the power would be to increase the empowered W from 3x to 4x damage.

  • Auto attacking a target with a mark in the process of stacking will either instantly stack the mark or reduce the time for it to stack by a certain amount (which ever is more balanced). In exchange, the mark will last an extremely short time. If you don't attack the target with the stacking mark then the mark when fully stacked will last considerably longer.

Without a successful W mark fizz's current W can't do anything period which leads to some pretty awkward situations. Like not being able to finish off the enemy ADC that's at 5% HP because your normal proc does nothing. Point is, fizz needs a better gameplay style than AA/Shark then wait. With these changes he has better options. Got a single hit proc from shark or 1 AA? You can maneuver around or wait abit longer before going in so you can find a good opportunity. Want to get risky? Go in and AA your target 2 times so you can get off a quick W but if you fail to get your W off for whatever reason then the stack disappears almost instantly and you go back to trying to reapply it.


E:

  • Take out some of the damage and scaling in order to give some balance room to add power to fizz's W.

  • Clean up the character model hit boxes as he has weird inconsistent jumps with his E depending on how he's facing relative to the obstacle/terrain.

  • Increase the range and maybe tweak some numbers to focus this ability towards utility rather than as a competing source of burst next to his W. The whole idea of a mobile slippery assassin comes crashing down once you realize that his primary mobility spell is mostly used for uncreative burst rather than living up to the name "Playful/Trickster".


R:

  • Up the base damage. In terms of "damage" his old kit actually dealt roughly the same as it does now without the delayed playstyle and would allow him to do even more thanks to the synergy between his R lockdown and his on hit W if he was allowed to AA multiple times. If this ability is going to be a stand alone burst ability then at minimum it needs to deal as much as the old ult and then scale better then its current version at max range. The AP scaling is probably fine where it's at but the base damage needs a pretty good amount stacked onto it.

If it seems as though it's unbalanced then adding in a simple separation between the single target damage it deals to the champions it's latched to and the units in the surrounding area should work fine. Example: 100% damage to the affected champion but 65% effectiveness to surrounding units.

9 Comments

Dovahkiin4161 votes

Or just delete the toxic piece of shit. That works too lol

HongChongDong2 votes

{quoted}

Or just delete the toxic piece of shit. That works too lol

Preferably I'd like more insightful information than "He's cancer" or "He should be removed" or "He's broken". No offense pointed towards you as everyone has their own opinion but these sort of comments accomplish nothing for anyone.

Avienal1 votes

{quoted}

Preferably I'd like more insightful information than "He's cancer" or "He should be removed" or "He's broken". No offense pointed towards you as everyone has their own opinion but these sort of comments accomplish nothing for anyone.

Actually i find the current form of Fizz to be enjoyable especially the new style of the W is SEPARATED into 3 segments.

-Passive form which still deals the bleed damage. -Every time one of his abilities or autos hit a target it creates the mark alongside the bleed. Once the mark is full use your active then hit it to triple the active extra damage. -Regardless of the mark, if Fizz last hits a target with his W, then he gets the CD reset automatically to 1 and he gets 2/3rds of the mana back, this allows him for some excellent lane rush ups and he doesn't need to rely on his E constantly for wave clear, since he can chain stab multiple targets and only have to pay 1/3rd of the mana the ability normally costs per use.

But seriously the 'BLEED' lasts 4 seconds, and the MARK CREATION takes 2 seconds, thats pretty damn small considering the window especially when Fizz is trading against particular mid'lane types that have scummy range spaz out attacks. Which can utterly ruin them as they waste the mana then Fizz dives right on them and proceeds to wrek them while they are low on mana so they have to be forced to back, Fizz can finish building lich bane and then proceed todo it much sooner and give the opponent a reason to keep their distance otherwise Fizz will dive on them, shark included to melt them.

Seriously his passive is incredibly powerful for a lot of reasons.

  1. He can walk thru minions, that lets him do some pretty strong escape maneuvers because he can't be slowed by minion blocking his walking path or if he 'accidently' Q or Es right into a minion wave. The reduced damage on auto hits are just a extra bonus which helps him deal with stacks of damage hitting him repeatedly such as minion wave damage when he dives a target.

His R also got a majorly nice counter play measure on top of Fizz having to decide on taking a risk on how he wants to fire our his shark. 2. If he fires it straight up on their face after jumping on them then the shark is going to be small, do little damage and slow the target only a bit, meaning at best it just turns into a mini damage bomb to let him follow up with spellblade enhanced auto, W enhancing auto and hope they can't lash away. Like'wise if he manages to get the large shark on, especially in a team fight, he can literally do some big damage anHe d slows on multiple targets and turn a fight to his team's favor, but ultimately it comes with the risk of if the enemy team knows fizz is around, they are likely going to watch for his shark to quickly get out of the way before they get CC'd hard with a good chunk of damage.

He doesn't feel finicky or trashie compared to other particular champions even if he's still an annoying champion to face, unless you know how to counter his style by out'juking his juking ability by playing smart and ruining his chance to win a fight as soon as it starts by dealing large amounts of damage right at the starting line.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Dovahkiin4161 votes

I just hate Fizz, no one should have an ability like his troll poll. His E should become only untargetable. It shouldn't be able to dodge every ability in the game, be a gap closer/ escape, and deal damage. That's more overloaded than Vi, all in one ability. Something has to go.

His W passive should be removed, no reason to have 3% max HP burn damage on every auto for an assassin. That just encourages bruiser Fizz. The MR reduction you suggested sounds good though, kinda like Amumu passive. You can add more damage onto the W active to make up for the lost % damage.

Q is fine, works well with Lich Bane to give him ridiculous burst.

R is okay, tbh it didn't even need anything done to it. The larger shark effect only encourages bruiser as well, giving him a lot more cc. Tank-engage Fizz with a Tri Force is probably coming because of this.

Penns2 votes

If one spell is overloaded while the rest of his kit is underwhelming, isnt that kind of bad? If he uses it to gap close, he doesnt, or rarely uses the damage and the slow. If he uses it for damage, he likely doesnt use the mobility.

Also he doesnt even have %dmg anymore. So why would something "have to go" when he already isnt doing well?

Dovahkiin4161 votes

His kit isn't underwhelming, Q can also be a gap closer/ escape tool(depending on the circumstances). To replace the % HP damage they gave him an auto reset on his W, kinda makes up for it when he regularly builds max CDR.

His E just needs reworked, it's too overloaded. Either remove the damage and give it more distance, or leave the damage and make him vulnerable during it.

Penns2 votes

Passive does virtually nothing for his kit, Q is just a medicore dash that can be dodged with flash/other dashes and does no damage, W and ult are ok.

I mean, Im all for making his E less overloaded, maybe reducing the damage by a lot (tho he would need to do bonus damage against minions and monsters with it), but he would need buffs to his passive and Q or something to make up for it.

Dovahkiin4161 votes

Passive does virtually nothing for his kit

He ignores unit collision, have you even been minion blocked?? His Q procs Lich Bane passive, 50% of his total AP + 100% of his AD. That's a lot. He would definitely need compensation for his E damage being gone. Maybe double Q usage? Like Kled's E.

The damage could only apply to minions.

Penns3 votes

Yeah but thats just there to make like the only mid laner with 0 ranged spells/auto attacks and no survivability or anything not totally garbage in lane. And I dont count Lich Bane as damage of his Q, alone it does pretty much 0 dmg. Removing damage on E for more mobility or something else sounds good tho.

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