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"the meta favors lulu, therefore she doesn't need a nerf"

KONO RUBICK DA··55 votes·3,548 views

let me correct this: the meta favours her,** which is why** she needs nerfs like anyone who was favored by a meta. we don't want a champion to be overpowered, it doesn't matter what's the reason it's disgusting to play against 53% win rate+20% pick rate champ that happens to be banned in 81% of the games (which is the equivalent of pre-nerf darius)

lulu is disgusting right now, and people know it which is why she's banned. no one gives a single fuck if it's the meta or not, what people want is a balanced game.

Jhin was favored by the meta thanks to lethality and deathfire touch, riot decided to nerf this overpowered champion that ruined botlane by being picked constently

and the same thing applies to lulu, we don't want to wait an eternity for the meta to shift. In league we nerf champions to change the meta and this is how it happened since the night of times

and then, maybe only maybe i might have my ban not being forced on a single champion

102 Comments

Anhartamin24 votes

[deleted]

SnakDatSmilesBak6 votes

I'm a support main who's tired of seeing lulu as well.

Junkο14 votes

To be fair Karma really wasn't OP, all other supports were just shit from constant nerfs because Riot doesn't know how to balance the role.

AirKingNeo17 votes

Riot doesn't know how to balance the role.

An Undead brat2 votes

You mean when Zyra kept ~51% winrate low Elo included because in higher Elo it was way lower? Disgustingly OP.

chipndip122 votes

Lemme correct you there: "Lulu was buffed to the point where OF COURSE SHE'D BE META NOW."

Oelyk2 votes

When was she buffed?

I don't remember any big changes recently...

Miraweave5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lazy cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EL05PYfT,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2017-04-16T16:47:58.346+0000)

When was she buffed?

I don't remember any big changes recently...

They recently buffed her early passive damage by quite a lot.

blueberrypancake2 votes

Don't forget her attack speed steriod

Sadistic Veigar20 votes

I don't get why people think Lulu is strong because she "counters assassins".... it's not just that, she counters everything ffs point and click cc doesn't only work on assassins.

Knoyle7 votes

why is a support having reliable cc the issue?

chipndip17 votes

Counter-play...and the lack thereof

Knoyle3 votes

with champs like Ezreal Ahri Ekko Fiora Katarina Camille etc. and all the mobility in their kits? You can argue about the immobiles but honestly there is little that DOESN'T screw them.

chipndip18 votes

You can dodge Ez's Q, W, and R

You can dodge Ahri's Q and E

You can dodge Ekko's Q, W, and R

You can kite from and group against Fiora

You can move from Kat's knives

You can dodge Camille's W and E, kite her Q, and push her out of her ult, if not outright dodge it with some moves

Now context changes how likely you are to do ANY of these things, but it's something to play around. You can't play around anything Lulu does except "apply more damage faster". Lulu doesn't have fail conditions outside of the person playing her mistiming their skills or applying them to the wrong person, save her measly Q which is now her least important spell. The champs you listed can either be dodged or outright miss key abilities. That's the difference.

Ahri's still rather op atm though...being fair.

Silmaril14 votes

I don't think having reliable CC is the issue. It's having reliable CC on top of 3 other strong peeling abilities that makes her overbearing.

6Sfool11 votes

I truly hate Lulu, I think she's the most annoying support to play against discounting Blitzcrank, and I think she needs a rework. HOWEVER, no champion should be nerfed because of the meta. That only enforces the meta and makes it harder to swing back to a normal state. If burst is OP right now, it will be that way forever once you remove its counters. The Meta nerfs hit my favorite ADC Varus hard after a bunch of FOTM players cried OP and spammed a build I never even used. Now my favorite siege playstyle for him is entirely unviable, and I don't want that to happen to Lulu too.

Knoyle5 votes

This is exactly right though. Imagine if we nerfed to the ground champs like Rammus Malphite during the Marksmen meta. They'd be downright unplayable right now I'd wager. They don't sit on shining spots as is already. And the thing is this was the case for lulu before this meta hit. Nobody gave a shit she even existed except the people who played her because they liked her. Now you have a bunch of morons who don't even know how to play against hard engage using her.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

{quoted}

This is exactly right though. Imagine if we nerfed to the ground champs like Rammus Malphite during the Marksmen meta.

Which ironically, they did (Not to the ground but they certainly hit them).

nice table6 votes

you do realize they did get nerfed to the ground during the marksman meta right?

Dionesus8 votes

Umm riot barely nerfed jhin. All they did was reduce slow on his ult by .25 seconds. So basically jhin wasn't nerfed at all. They nerf lethality and buffed botk and that's why jhin semi fell off...not cuz he was nerf ed. And good thing riot didn't nerf him after making the item changes cuz he would be complete garbage now. Lulu is meta because she counters burst damage. Using winrates doesn't prove things are disgusting or op cuz sona has had the top 5 winrates in the GAME for all of season 7. She is sitting at 55% on lolking. So plz stop. You don't even suggest what to nerf. Plz stop posting cuz you don't contribute to lol at all.

KONO RUBICK DA13 votes

{quoted}

reduce slow on his ult by .25 seconds.

alright

{quoted}

So basically jhin wasn't nerfed at all.

how exactly logic is used in your brain?

it's way harder to hit with jhin ult now, are you even playing jhin?

{quoted} riot didn't nerf him

you just listed above a nerf to jhin

{quoted}

Lulu is meta because she counters burst damage.

she counters everything, and enable everything she does everything with that bullshit overloaded kit, the most overloaded kit of every enchenters

stop lying to yourself

{quoted}

Using winrates doesn't prove things are disgusting or op cuz sona has had the top 5 winrates in the GAME for all of season 7.

Sona doesn't have a disgusting ban rate that hides how lulu had 30% pick rate before

{quoted}

She is sitting at 55% on lolking.

quiet , lolking is not as reliable as league of graph, sona doesn't have 55% win rate above plat, she has 53% and has a very small pick rate (6%)

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/sona/platinum

learn your facts before posting shit

Dionesus9 votes

The nerf to jhins ult was NOT the reason why he fell off as tip tier. It was the fact the lethality items were nerf and other items were buff. Plz read patch notes. Also...you know that the slow on his ult is irrelevant when you you have other champs with slows and other forms of cc. It's not a 1v1 game, son.

Also I said sonas winrate in the whole game...not plat+. Plz learn to read...kiddo. lol

On championgg, lulu has 51% win rate and on opgg she has 51% again. Sona has 53% win rate...like you said. You ban lulu cuz you don't know how to deal with her...not cuz she is op. Get good bro.

KONO RUBICK DA14 votes

{quoted}

You ban lulu cuz you don't know how to deal with her...not cuz she is op. Get good bro.

81% of league players don't know how to deal with her

xd?

{quoted}

Also I said sonas winrate in the whole game...not plat+. Plz learn to read...kiddo. lol

no one cares about all games, bronze don't interest anyone

hm well, black list where is it

Sp33d Zer04 votes

81% of league players don't WANT to deal with her.

AirKingNeo5 votes

Oh yeah, I totally don't know hot to deal with Lulu. So much counterplay to a 2.5 second CLICK ABILITY STUN.

Anastaecia7 votes

The problem I have with this anti-lulu sentiment is that most people complain about her kit. Umm, it's been that way for a long time. Why was no one complaining in Feb? OH, because she wasn't beating them back then...I see. Blitz and Thresh have been at the top of the supp charts forever. Never hear people complain about them.

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

{quoted}

The problem I have with this anti-lulu sentiment is that most people complain about her kit. Umm, it's been that way for a long time.

are you playing the game since yesterday? because lulu was never balanced, always either op or up and buffed/nerfed since years

Hyrum Graff7 votes

Let's keep in mind that the meta is 2 patches away from changing, when midseason hits.

Arakadia5 votes

I agree, but you should not nerf her till she's at 48-50%. Because once she falls out of meta, she's going to be shitty. 50% is ok, but if she gets lower while she's supposed to be in in meta, than when she's out of meta she'll be trash and need buffs.

LadyRenly4 votes

when you die in .0001 second from obnoxious burst or get face fucked by brand/zyra support, what do you expect to happen?

LordBrasca4 votes

So, It is okay for lulu to have those huge stats because "the meta is favoring her" but it is not okay for champs like Rammus or Malphite when the meta is 99% AD?

NJSP Trooper4 votes

She wasn't even buffed, where is this all coming from? I just checked the patch notes and there are no traces of Lulu being buffed. If I am wrong then please provide me the link to the patch notes where Lulu was buffed because I'd like to see it for myself, thank you

Ruin Lance2 votes

look before this patch

The FIame God4 votes

Ok since you people on the boards just love bitching so much I'm gonna go ahead and explain to you what riot means by that statement. When riot says a champion is a favored by the meta they don't mean she is strong and therefor is in an ok spot what they mean is that she is a good counter to the meta of assassins and burst type champions which in turn makes her meta its not because her kit alone is over powered or she is just strong because of numbers alone. It is because of how she fits into the current meta picks. (sorry for the wall of text I don't post on things often)

Teridax683 votes

Perhaps not the best tone, but the core statement here is true. By all rights, Lulu is not overpowered, and before the assassin meta she was in fact a little underwhelming. She is, however, extremely good at countering burst and protecting specific targets against rapid threats, which makes her extremely strong in a bursty meta. Nerfing her would simply be taking away one more option against burst, which will not only make it harder to shift away from that meta in the first place, but will simply leave her in far too weak a state when it eventually does.

The FIame God3 votes

Ya I see your point i was a little aggressive but thank you, you explained my point better then i ever could have.

Baron of Bread3 votes

The problem with her is she can kill the ADC in 2k17 meme. Since traditional ADCs are actually strong when they don't instantly get killed, her enabling them to stick around is very powerful in a meta where there aren't a lot of tanks to slow them down so they can't just rip through a team.

Bârd3 votes

Uh, no.

Lulu was balanced before the meta favored her, she will be again when it shifts away from her.

Once Riot brings Redemption/locket back in line, Lulu will be fine.

Lulu is a symptom, not the problem.

It's the same thing that happened with Sej+cinderhulk, Yi+sated, and Shyv+Feral.

Oelyk2 votes

That... or we can buff some artillery mages back into the meta. Assassins and divers are the ones that really suffer to Lulu and they are currently hard meta, that also being Lulu is a really abusive lane poke wise, like Sona, so early all-in botlanes like Leona and Alistar(both out of meta) work better against her, so she has to use her spells to block out a support instead of someone else.

I would like to see more mobility cancelling spells honestly, Poppy and Cassio are both good but not that great, and we've yet so see a support(designed support) with that kind of power.(and I mean a spell that says it blocks dashes, not just hitting cc midflight.)

Sp33d Zer02 votes

I wanna point out that Lulu is at a 51% win rate with a 15.5% pick rate.

Meanwhile Lucian is at a 52.6% win rate, with a FORTY-NINE% pick rate.

That is all.

Daddy Ants2 votes

Let's not forget Lucian

53% win rate with a 50% pick rate.

Tejester2 votes

A very similar issue applies to Lucian, as he boasts about a 35% play rate and 52-53% win rate across all elos.

YoungSirJ0ey2 votes

Where are you getting these stats from?

And the game can be balanced by nerfing the meta and not Lulu.

Jhin barely got nerfed.

You won't have to wait an eternity. At most, you'll have to wait 2 more weeks for the tank update.

Voluug132 votes

Nerfing Lulu is only attacking symptom lmao

Also no, not all meta definer/meta picks have been nerfed equally.

Remember when Vayne was meta? 3ad nerf.

Remember when Sejuani was meta? Into the dumpster the boar lady goes.

Remember, as in its happening rn, when Lee Sin was (is) meta definer jungler? Slap-wrist nerf.

Remember when Zilean was very shortly LCS mid pick as an anti assassin counterpick? Nerfworked into a low damage support.

So no, I dont even play Lulu yet I know this short and recent day in the limelight is not enough to ask for nerfs for her when in some time the meta will shift and she will go back to being a mediocre pick.

If Riot dumpsters Lulu is 100% because she is countering their intended meta and not because she actually needs nerfing.

Fairyfleur1 votes

Lulu is in the meta because of previous buffs and how the meta is shaped. If they nerf her, I want a travel time on her E, or reduced damage. Also, Jhin is still constantly picked.

Sp33d Zer03 votes

His pickrate is down to 9%. Lucian took his place.

Yordle Xayah1 votes

we don't want a champion to be overpowered

I'm actually starting to believe it'd be more fun if everyone was overpowered and we can be done with it.

TimX24968B2 votes

if that was the case, that would violate the meaning of the word "overpowered".

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