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@Stashu, You Want To Fix Cassiopeia?

U4fyn2vZzW··33 votes·1,692 views

Here's what you do, just scrap that passive, just ABOLISH IT. Nobody wants nor has ever wanted a stacking mechanic on Cassiopeia especially considering the fact the only other similar stacking mage (Veigar) stacks faster and can actually snowball because he stacks AP not fucking tiers to gain AP so his ratio's remain godly.

Also, stop insisting that you know better then your Cassiopeia fanbase. Dude, you have had a total of about TWO GODDAMN RANKED GAMES THIS YEAR WITH CASSIOPEIA so unless you have a smurf that you only play Cassiopeia on or their is some private Riot server then I can't fathom how you keep using this "I know better" mentality considering each time you use this Cassiopeia's rework arguably gets more laughable.

Last but not least, get it out of your thick skull that you think Cassiopeia can be a lategame hypercarry mage. For one, she's not tanky and or slippery (Like Ryze), two she can't switch targets easily (Like Ryze because he's an actual lategame hypercarry), three she's completely vulnerable and easy to crowd control (Ryze is naturally tank and a kiter and Fiora can go untargetable while facerolling your entire team), and lastly four she's not fucking mobile.

It doesn't matter how much you tweak her kit or that pathetic excuse you call a passive she is never going to be this lategame hypercarry that just seems to be a ADC that happens to build AP, cannot destroy towers, and needs to poison targets before she can use autos that cost mana.

A

IMMOBILE

SQUISHY

MAGE

THAT

HAS

MANA PROBLEMS

AND PROBLEMS SWITCHING TARGETS

WILL

NEVER

EVER

BE

A

LATEGAME

HYPERCARRY

37 Comments

5G8Nri0B549 votes

The Passive is undeniably a problem.

But let's be honest, it's more than just the Passive.

She's a Poison Mage, therefore logically...

-her two poison abilities are utter shit and unsatisfying to land -her main ability is a direct damage spam nuke -she only targets a single enemy -she specializes in all-in close-quartered combat

Then there is the fact that he took a champion with a perfectly fine power-curve and turned her into a HYPER-CARRY

Stashu, if you're reading this.

How well do you think Kog'maw will take it if you took away his late game and instead made him into another Miss Fortune?

Cale0175 votes

Quick tip. If you want to be taken seriously

TRY

NOT

TO POST

LIKE

THIS

Yfrappefort4 votes

I'll be frank, I don't play Cassiopeia, but even I can't stay neutral in this.

Why did they even rework her anyway? She was already a niche champion that was liked by her fans. Sure, she was a lane bully, but she was also extremely difficult to master. When I saw a good Cass, I was like "wow, this guy put a lot of work to learn her", and he DID deserve to carry the game by out-skilling his opponents.

But then, this poor excuse of a rework happened. This changed her from someone I like to see now and then to someone I hate seeing every time.

Now I know that, regardless of the skill of the Cass player, he's gonna drag the team down unless he somehow survive until 50 minutes...

Unlike most of the other reworks Riot has done, nobody wanted this one. Nobody. At. All.

Old Cass was unique and, even if not very popular, brought something unique to the game. New Cass is just a boring underpowered mage that needs to farm the whole game in order to not be completely useless. Even if they buff her numbers to make her "balanced", she will never feel like the "poison snake lady" she used to be.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I share the pain of the Cassiopeia players, even if I'm not one of them.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Had to say the same.

She's been FINE even before her rework, she's just not picked a lot because of her legit high skillcap (I could argue, much higher than Syndra's or Oriana's) and HAS BEEN becoming a scary lategame hypercarry because of her insane DoT and AoE, especially in the right hands.

I don't know what's the point of her passive rework...

Narasimha2 votes

Ok seriously, this ship has sailed. Barring something insanely crazy, the passive is here to stay. Just move on and figure out how we can make it better. Thats all we can really do.

chumbler12 votes

Ok seriously, this ship has sailed. Barring something insanely crazy, the passive is here to stay. Just move on and figure out how we can make it better. Thats all we can really do.

No, I am not going to just roll over and accept the most horribly designed passive in the game by the worst designer at Riot (and being the worst designer at Riot takes some doing). Nobody should try to "figure out how to make it better" because there is no salvaging this shit. I am not going to "work with him" to improve it because the entire idea of it is unacceptable. The entire rework needs to be reverted because it is bad.

Serpents Embrace14 votes

If the passive is here to stay, I won't be.

It's that big of a deal. This passive took Cassiopeia from a high skill cap champion who was fun to learn and play to a mess who's frustrating at best because you don't have the tools or power to compete with literally any other champion until a set point of time in the game.

The only way to "make it better" is to scrap it, and scrap Stashu. He's poison for this rework.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

U4fyn2vZzW20 votes

You obviously never played the old Cassiopeia and or were terribly bad with her.

Her old passive fitted her kit perfectly and was actually fun because you had to manage your stacks and it rewarded you when doing so. It also allowed her to not go completely oom every teamfight.

How is this new passive interesting? You're telling me it's fun and interesting to just farm for 30-40 minutes while being raped in the process anally only to go into a lategame that is arguably worse then how it was before?

Also, how does this new passive fit her thematically? Let me ask you this question, if you got bit by a Black Momba snake would you be saying "I'VE JUST BEEN BIT, GOT TO GET TO THE HOSPITAL BEFORE THE VENOM/POISON EATS ME AWAY" or . . . "I'VE JUST BEEN BIT, THE SNAKE WILL GROW STRONGER!".

This entire rework is a steaming pile of freshly produced shit by one of the worst game designers i've ever experienced.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

ShadowParker9 votes

The way you build a champion, has nothing to do with thematics. But their kit has everything to do with thematics. Would it make sense, for someone such as Renekton, a lizard, to run around poisoning everyone like singed does? Or anivia, the ice bird. Shooting fireballs at people such as Annie? Thematics are what make champions champions.

And how would you propose to fix the number problems? Hmm? With the big jumble stats that are added to the passive, every little change can make her over powered or underpowered. Because the passive IS THAT BROKEN.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

U4fyn2vZzW11 votes

"The way you build a champion, has nothing to do with thematics. But their kit has everything to do with thematics."

This is so true, and are you dumb or just trolling because Mordekaiser armored theme makes perfect sense when you look at his passive shield and the fact he can sustain with his R heal.

What doesn't make sense is the fact Cassiopeia poisoning someone makes her stronger instead of them going weaker. That makes zero sense whatsoever. I'm sorry, I don't give a hell what you or anyone says the fact remains that if i were to get bit by a snake right now i wouldn't be worried about how many calories he may get from biting me or how well my blood may taste to him and if or not it would allow him to grow stronger i would be worried about how much damage this venom would be doing to me overtime. A black mamba's bite contains enough vile venom to kill a human in a span of 20-minutes OVERTIME (See where I'm going with this?) the same should be applied to Cassiopeia if a player gets hit by my fucking poisons they shoul dbe worrying about how much damage they will take over the duration and not if i will grow fucking stronger.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

U4fyn2vZzW11 votes

You're talking out of your ass it's actually pretty funny.

First of all, Teemo's passive involves him ambushing (that's what he is an annoying ambusher) so it makes perfect thematic sense for him to gain attack speed during an ambush. When you're waiting to ambush someone you do it with the intent to save all your energy and then release it in a quick strike against your opponent.

All your reasons are so autistic it's not even funny, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THEMATICS WE TALK ABOUT WHAT WE THINK A CHAMPION WILL DO IN A FIGHT AND HOW THEIR ABILITIES WILL PLAY OUT.

When you look at Gragas what do you see? A fat drunk that will most likely throw that cask around the fight and dive head in, what does he do? Just that. Would it make sense for his cask to actually make him build stacks for every enemy it kills?

On a side not, I've seen I was right about you not playing Cassiopeia. You've had zero Cassiopeia games played in ranked throughout all 4 seasons so you honestly have no place inside any Cassiopeia conversations.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

U4fyn2vZzW9 votes

You're trying so hard lol.

There is a point in thematics where something just has to fit the champions theme for their sake. Yes it might not make total sense for Gragas and Katarina to do magic damage but who the hell cares about damage? The fucking fact remains that when you play Gragas you feel like a drunk/brawler is diving into battles and throwing casks, when you play Kattarina you feel like that Noxian assassin renowned for killing enemies one by one, when you play Teemo you feel like that ambusher lying in wait with a bunch of shroom, but when you play Cassiopeia you don't feel like a fucking poisonous snake that is waring your opponent down with your, oh idk, VENOM and that right there is the fucking problem.

And yes it does make sense for Riposte to dodge a range attack (Look up the definition of Riposte if that helps).

Triforce static shiv allistar again is a build, you can't say that a build describes a champion's thematics because if i where to build Ryze full AP and not mana/tanky his theme would still be fullfilled because he's a fucking mage "THE ROGUE MAGE". Builds are completely subjective and are totally decided on what the player wants to do, I go AP Xin Zhao all the time and wreck with magic damage but somehow i still manage to feel that royal warrior theme of Demacia, see where I'm going? You could go triforce statikk* shiv on Alistar and his theme of being a minotaur that stampedes into battle will still make more sense but that's his fucking theme (Ult making him a support tank, diving into battles headon while passing through).

Rengar's roar fits him thematically more then anything you listed he's a fucking hunter that dives into battles fitting the toughest predators of Valoran, hell his roar fits him more as a hunter then Cassiopeia's passive fits her as a snake that gets more powerful by poisoning enemies instead of them growing weaker.

Just shut up now before you make your self look more like a fool.

Also, again you didn't answer my question of what would you worry about if a Black Mamba snake bit you the snake growing stronger from biting you or you fucking dying because you got bit by a poisonous snake?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

U4fyn2vZzW9 votes

You obviously didn't read my post lol. ** The fucking fact remains that when you play Gragas you feel like a drunk/brawler is diving into battles and throwing casks, when you play Kattarina you feel like that Noxian assassin renowned for killing enemies one by one, when you play Teemo you feel like that ambusher lying in wait with a bunch of shroom, but when you play Cassiopeia you don't feel like a fucking poisonous snake that is waring your opponent down with your, oh idk, VENOM and that right there is the fucking problem.**

A champion's theme boils down to how you feel when you play them OR AGAINST THEM, and right now Cassiopeia with her horrible poisons and her passive that for some reason makes her stronger when she poisons an enemy feels nothing even closely resembling what should be a venomous snake.

Let me ask you this, would it make any sense at all for Syndra's spheres to heal allied champions (A cocky and dark mage that doesn't care about anything or anyone excluding her power) no because that's not what you would feel like would be happening on Syndra.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

U4fyn2vZzW7 votes

Actually when you do play Mordekaiser you feel like a tank because of his passive and you sure as shit feel tanky when your ult is draining your opponents health and incase you're that autistic his W gives him bonus MR and Armor.

When you play Ryze you feel like a mage, he only doesn't feel squishy because of the fact that nobody builds him squishy however building him squishy is viable (Again, builds don't can't fit thematics because when i play Xin Zhao as full AP i still manage to feel like that warrior i should feel like not a mage that my build suggests.).

Elphrihaim5 votes

Also, when you play mordekaiser, he doesn't feel like a large tank like his model suggests. When you play ryze, he doesn't feel like the squishy mage that his model suggest. When you play swain, he doesn't feel anything like the tactitioner his lore suggests. When you play elise, she doesn't feel anything like a venoumous spider.

Having played all of these...

  1. Mordekaiser feels like a bloody tanky man because of how much sustainability he gets from his passive. e.g. his kit.

  2. Ryze doesn't seem like a squishy mage. He's shirtless and you can see this superb toning-- no, he looks like a spellsword/red mage character, somebody that knows both how to fight and the arcane arts.

  3. Swain definitely feels like a tactician... until you ult.

  4. Elise, I agree, does not feel like a venomous spider-- She's the queen of venomous spiders. She burns through your health (Human Q), wraps you in a cocoon to kill you later (Human E), and isn't afraid of wasting her minions to hurt you (Human W)-- She's also able to finish you off, a lethal bite (Spider Q); she can shuffle away and come down someplace better (Spider E), and as the Queen her underlings rally themselves at her word (Spider W). Elise feels like a spider queen, not like a venomous spider. So despite not having any DoT (Venom) she still has this vague feeling of being a sneaky spider that comes where you don't expect her.

Elphrihaim6 votes

Also, you can't talk about how a champion feels like when you are playing them if you don't include item builds. Look at any marksmen, they have horrible base damage and do not feel anything like their theme until they have a few ad items. Likewise, a champion like darius had no natural defensive steroids and does not feel tanky until he gets a few defensive items.

Lucian can deliver his fantasy/thematic of being a running, dual-gunning, slick and smooth man... without items. Because his kit does a great job of giving that.

Sure, all marksmen have their fantasy influenced by their items, more heavily than other classes. But not their theme. Caitlyn is a sniper, Lucian is a slippery man. They deliver on this without items and can do it a bit better with items.

Finally, why do you keep dodging the question about cass's noxious blast? Why is it okay for her noxious blast to make her move faster but not make her stronger?

Because it suits her as a slithering snake to move quickly, but it makes sense to balance that thematic with a requirement. >_>

ShadowParker7 votes

When you play Mordekaiser, your passive gives you a shield that benefits to his armored theme. When you play Swain, he is literally all about positioning thus making him the tacticioner. When you play Elise, her venom is based off the targets health. As well a character's model has nothing to do with how they look. When you see Sion, he has almost no armor, he's practically shirtless, does that make him super squishy? THIS IS LITERALLY THE ARGUMENT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE.

Answer the question, your argument is invalid until you answer this question.

what would you worry about if a Black Mamba snake bit you the snake growing stronger from biting you or you fucking dying because you got bit by a poisonous snake?

Elphrihaim2 votes

In this post you are talking about gameplay balancing for a given thematic. Kat dealing Magic Damage, Fiora being able to Riposte ranged attacks (by the way it is totally theoretically possible to cut a bullet), etc--

This makes your point irrelevant. Worth talking about, certainly, but not in this thread. Here it's not relevant.

(I don't care about the games you've played. But you're mixing gameplay elements with thematic elements and there's really not a large point to that.

Why? Gragas throws a barrel and magically has a whole new barrel. Katarina has infinite knives.

#Logic of that sort has no place in a video game.)

[now excuse me while I go curse the boards for not letting me post for like 20 minutes.]

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

U4fyn2vZzW6 votes

Yes it doesn't make sense for her Q to make her faster but you're missing the point.

When you look at Cassiopeia what do you see? A massive snake lady that most likely is venomous to the core.

What do you get? A stacking champion who's venomous abilities actually do the opposite, ZERO damage (When you get bitten by a snake you shouldn't feel like some pain killers can neutralize the venom you rush your ass to a hospital) and actually in fact make her stronger for some reason (Again, when you get bitten by a fucking snake and its venom is streaming down your veins you're NOT WORRYING ABOUT IF THE SNAKE IS GETTING STRONGER FROM BITING YOU, YOU'RE WORRYING HOW LONG YOU HAVE TO LIVE AND WHAT YOU CAN DO TO STOP IT {All dot's in the game feel like that}. I'll even go as far to say pretend you're a snake and you're hunting for prey, when you bite your target and they scurry off are you wondering how strong you're going to get from biting them in order to hunt them down later {Again{ or how long it's going to take for them to finally get weak enough for you to kill them and enjoy a meal)

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

5G8Nri0B541 votes

So a single high cooldown R = more Medusa-like vibe than a Poison Mage who has multiple abilities and lines referencing her poison? Because beyond that R, she has literally nothing else to do with Medusa. Not the hair. Not her(Medusa's) awkwardly uncomforatble backstory. Nothing.

The only reason people do not feel like she is a poison mage is due to the failure in the rework.

Elphrihaim2 votes

Except that is exactly the same reason cass's passive makes her stronger.

But unlike every example given, Cassiopeia's passive does not in any way supplement a thematic. It seems to exist purely from a gameplay perspective. Sure, she unlocks power over time, and yes, that's a thematic-- but is it one that fits Cassiopeia?

#Most people, I'd wager, would say no.

Noxious Blast providing MS only when you hit would be a lot cooler if instead it provided MS while Cassio is moving towards enemies she hit with it, and passively just gave bonus MS-- perhaps only while off-cooldown. It'd better fit the thematic of a snake dancing towards her prey to get in range to lunge (E). But from a gameplay pov, just giving MS accomplishes the same theme almost identically while giving her utility and a reduced burden of knowledge.

Chrige4 votes

I agree, the old passive was kinda boring, but not all passives are unique one of a kind things. Nasus's passive just gives lifesteal, that's kinda boring. On a slightly different note, do you have a single post that doesn't have a negative rating?

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Chrige3 votes

The main problem isn't whether she's good(not going to say anything either way on that topic), its that most people don't find her play style fun with it being so focused on her E. If someone wants to play a champ with only one damaging ability they can play zilean. People played her for the poison and now that's gone. I agree that her new passive is more interesting but its not fun for most of us( or atleast most of us that say anything on the forums).

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