Most Traditional Mages Not Valuable at Competitive Level?

AmazingGoat··5 votes·2,978 views

There has been a lot of discussion coming out of Worlds about how weak melee champions are right now. The numbers certainly bear this out, but strangely I am not seeing nearly as much discussion regarding the similar lack of presence of most mages at Worlds.

The only traditional mages that were repeatedly picked and did not fail were: Orianna Orianna - One of the three viable immobile mages, mainly because of her great ult combined with utility. Syndra Syndra - One of the three viable immobile mages, mainly because of her long range stun combined with great burst from ult. TwistedFate Twisted Fate - One of the three viable immobile mages, mainly because of his ult. Ahri Ahri - The mage/assassin hybrid, and insanely mobile.

Notably, all of these champions have some form of stun or displacement, two of these champions have a very unique ult that is very powerful (Ori and TF), one has a triple dash, and one has a super long range stun.

The other three "mages" who saw a lot of play/bans and are undoubtedly viable (maybe too strong in some cases): Ryze Ryze - Usually played top, and we'll get to more on him in a second. Zilean Zilean - Played for his ult and only his ult. Kassadin Kassadin - Insane mobility; in at least some instances played top as a counter to Ryze.

There were several other mages who made either a niche appearance or were unsuccessfully played: Lissandra Lissandra - Picked once and got a win (I believe as a counter to an assassin mid). Swain Swain - Played top. Ziggs Ziggs - Picked once; didn't go great. Xerath Xerath - Picked six times with two wins; arguably viable.

Instead of traditional AP mages, Zed was picked or banned in 48% of games, Yasuo was picked or banned in 38% of games, Fizz was picked or banned in 32% of games, and Jayce was picked or banned in 25% of games. Notably, Jayce seemed to gain momentum as Worlds went on and probably would have been picked/banned even more if the tournament had gone on longer.

Anyone who has ever played solo queue at a lower ELO knows that whenever you enter a lobby, there is a good chance half the lobby will yell out their preference for mid. I have long believed that one of the reasons for this is that there are a huge variety of champions you can play in the middle lane, many of whom are mages that have fun and engaging abilities. What Worlds showed us is that most of these champions aren't currently considered valuable at the highest level of play.

The following is a list of mage champions not picked or banned at Worlds: Anivia Annie Brand Cassiopeia Heimerdinger Karma Karthus Kennen LeBlanc (the only mage assassin not picked at least once) Lux Malzahar Veigar Vel'Koz Viktor Vladimir Zyra (could be termed a support - probably not picked because Janna does peel better right now)

All this being said, just because a champion isn't valued at the highest level of play doesn't mean they aren't viable in solo queue, especially at lower levels of play. In point of fact, all of these champions are (except you Kennen and new Cass), but I think the reality is that the fact that they generally aren't played at the highest level of play does say something about the state of mages right now.

Almost all of them are squishy and great targets for a gank/dive. Many AoE mages don't exert much kill pressure on an opponent, and even for burst mages who do, they frequently have to expose themselves to a gank to go for a kill. If they blow all of their burst and the opponent lives, they are usually dead. They can't really roam safely to apply pressure around the map as their lack of mobility leaves them vulnerable without complete vision. They generally can't take towers quickly.

At first blush, except for the last, these are the exact same things you can generally say about an ADC early game. The difference is that an ADC is obviously worth protecting and is generally what a team comp is built around. There simply aren't that many mages who get strong enough to be worth playing with limited mobility. It's even worse than that though, because most of the ADCs that are played ALSO have mobility. Lucian/Corki/Trist all have mobility. So the most commonly played ADCs can still roam around a bit safer than an immobile mage, especially with a support.

At the end of the day, most mages have many of the vulnerabilities of an ADC, without the late game power. Further, there is often no need to worry about having a source of AP damage as (1) you can play Ryze top, and (2) last whisper exists.

As a bonus that no one who has read this far wants, I've attempted to briefly categorize all the other champions that were not played at worlds. I expect absolutely no one to read or pay attention to this.

Tank Junglers That Get Destroyed by Lee Sin

Amumu Hecarim Nautilus Sejuani Skarner Zac

Other Junglers That Aren't as Good Early as Lee Sin and Can't Deal with CC

Master Yi Nocturne Shaco Udyr Warwick (could be listed as melee top)

ADCs That Aren't as Mobile as Lucian/Corki/Trist and Can't Stealth and Spray N Pray

Ashe Draven Miss Fortune Quinn Sivir Urgot

Tanky AP Things That Aren't Ryze

Cho'Gath Diana Mordekaiser Sion (old Sion)

Teemo-like Things

Teemo (please someone play him competitively)

Melee Tops That Can't Deal With CC

Darius Fiora Gangplank Garen Gnar (maybe should be hybrid) Jax Malphite Nasus Olaf Poppy Shen Renekton Shyvana Trundle Tryndamere Volibear (could be listed as a jungler) Wukong Xin Zhao (could be listed as a jungler) Yorick

Vanilla Supports That Don't Have Enough CC

Soraka Taric

Congrats to the one person who read this far. That's all I've got. I wish I had a point so that you could take something away from this post beyond my ramblings.

10 Comments

A Retarded Clown3 votes

The Problem, as a lot of people have pointed out, isn't the numbers. It's that everything does the SAME thing. There are few champions that have truly original capabilities. TF can roam with ult, Orianna has the ability to Speed up, slow, shield, CC, AoE et.c from various damage points rather than coming from her. This is true of Syndra as well who does not necessarily have to be all that close other than to press R and you can't dodge her skillshots just by reading HER movements you need to keep track of her surrogates.

All those mages you listed are mostly just click R for damages and the rest of ur kit has some CC somewhere on it, all of it horribly telegraphed with clumsy animations meaning good players will 9/10 times easily avoid it in a 1 on 1 situation.

Oh and most games were decided on fast movement and picks. Your slow, clumsy mage who doesn't even hyperscale to the point of right click one shoting everything never really had a chance.

Mindworm Jim1 votes

I take heart in the fact that all of Riot's newer champion have a bit more uniqueness to them. It says to me that they are aware of the problem and are trying to address it. I'm fairly confident that Riot will try to find unique niches for their older champions, it will just take time (and they may not get it right the first couple tries).

Elias Chainboy1 votes

the only mids who are viable have great utility,mobility and damage. why pick e.g Viktor, Xerath or Lux when you can have more mobility and utility than them, and on top of that have equal to more damage. it's pretty stupid imo, but also hard to balance...

RuGu1 votes

the only mids who are viable have great utility,mobility and damage. why pick e.g Viktor, Xerath or Lux when you can have more mobility and utility than them, and on top of that have equal to more damage. it's pretty stupid imo, but also hard to balance...

Actually I don't think its that hard to balance.

Champions need to pay for that mobility moreso than they do now. There is zero reasons why Ahri should have the damage AND utility AND cool downs AND sustain AND mobility that she does. But the fact is that she does have all those things and so why pick someone who doesnt?

Syndra is actually a decent example of a made that works right. She doesn't have mobility, but she has insanely good burst, and her ult is a single target nuke, which makes up for her lacking mobility.

Skill shots in this game need to be more rewarding, otherwise champs like Lux, Viktor, etc are just going to be niche picks at best.

Mindworm Jim1 votes

Actually I think Ahri is in a pretty good spot. She's mobile and damaging, sure, but she has to apply her mobility and damage intelligently to succeed. If she misses Charm she loses out on a lot of damage. If she wastes her ult charges she's a sitting duck. And while she's mobile in a fight, the fact that it's tied to her ult means it's not the same as having a simple dash like Kha'zix or Tristana.

On top of all that, her abilities and default play-pattern are easy to understand for new players, and she brings a unique mechanic to the table. To be fair, there are other abilities that serve the save tactical purpose as Charm (such as Thresh's hook), but it's still nice to have.

RuGu1 votes

The problem in traditional mid lane is as follows.

Lets say you want to play Lux mid right? Here is why you don't do that.

AT the best case scenario you are the very last pick, and know who the enemy mid laner is.

So either the enemy mid laner picked something that you can play against (another traditional mage), but probably hasn't because he was afraid that you would pick a bursty assassin like Zed, so he picked someone like Talon.

Well now you can't play your traditonal mid laner, because the enemy locked in a bursty AD assassin with a gap closer.

If they DID pick a traditional mage in the mid lane, you COULD pick Lux, but then the lane is based on a skill matchup, as opposed to the LOLRoflstomp you could commit just by picking talon or zed into them.

Mid lane is a game of chicken in champ select. You can't pick the traditional mage first, and your enemy probably won't for the fear of the same exact thing. If they do manage to pick a traditional mage, you are faced with either leaving the lane up to mechanics and skill, or just taking the better counter to ruin his day and hopefully have an easier game to win.

I hope that makes sense....

VerrKol1 votes

You list Olaf as a top that can't deal with CC. I think you've missed his problem entirely lol, but let's ignore that because no one really cares about Olaf atm.

You really can't examine the champion choices mid without dealing with Jungle picks and because of the current meta top. Let's step over to Jungle for a second. How many viable AP junglers are there? At most, there Elise, Fiddlesticks, and Amumu with only Elise really seeing competitive play to rather poor results. Worlds has shown just how early game centric the meta has become. You can't pick the tanky AP junglers because the game won't reach their power spikes. It will be over long before that because Lee, Kha, J4, Rengar, and even Panth have been running around getting successful ganks and securing objectives.

This means that you must have alternating damage sources from Top and Mid. One will be AP, the other AD. It's pretty difficult to say which emphasis came first, but I'll argue that the Mao rework combined with the ever present Ryze changed meta for top laners away from the usual AD bruisers of S3. This shifted a lot of the emphasis to AD mid laners like Yasuo, Talon, and Zed.

Now there obviously were mage mid laners still being played, but I'd like to cherry pick just a few you mentioned. Vladamir - He's a sustain mage that takes forever to ramp up to his true potential. There's nothing majorly wrong with his kit, it simply doesn't fit the meta. Viktor - Worlds was played pre-rework. I think he's got some potential for competitive play, especially as a Zed counter. Vel'koz/Zyra/Karma - Utility mids are out of style since tops like Mao and Lulu fill the role better without being squishy.

Out of those you listed, only Annivia really strikes me as fundamentally flawed. Her kit is just dated. Her stun is laughably easy to dodge and her wall doesn't perform well as peel/chase against the now ubiquitous blink mechanics. Froggen showed that she still has potential thanks to her passive and amazing wave clear, but I certainly think an update is due here.

Brand and Annie are probably just too generic at the moment. They have a little bit of tankiness, hard cc, and decent damage but they don't really shine in any individual way so there's simply no reason to pick them. I'm not sure if this is something we can realistically expect Riot to come out with a good solution for. I'll agree with other posters in this and previous threads saying we need more creativity from the Champion Design team but that's a lot easier said than actually done. I will say they did a reasonable job with Azir in trying to rethink mechanics for a "traditional" style mage.

But to briefly return to my earlier point, I'll predict that mid lane picks in competitive play for S5 will depend on how Riot manages the upcoming jungle changes. The two roles are inextricably intertwined. The jungle changes revealed so far have been dramatic and I don't want to claim the expertise to really see how they will affect the game at a pro level.

AtheosisX1 votes

Nasus' problem is more about being late-game only and way too dependent on farming. Even at the pro level he would own if the game goes long and he's got stacks. It's just that at the pro level the other team is going to make a point of denying farm and try to end it before late game. Champs like that will probably never be truly viable at the pro level, but they remain incredibly viable in solo queue of all levels.

I do think that a lot of the points the op brings up are pretty accurate. All the mobility-heavy champs that are strangling the meta need to be adjusted in my opinion. Cooldown/resource increases would be a good start imo.

Solidair31 votes

Immobile mages need to be compensated for their immobility. Until that happens there is no hope for them.

And mobile mages (and adcs) need to start having real costs to go along with the great power gifted to them via their natural mobility.

blackcat13001 votes

This was the first season Karthus was not played at worlds the appetite of an immobile mage.

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